Author Topic: What's your attitude toward police? (Read 4143 times)

Questor · « **on:** November 22, 2006, 04:17:08 AM »

I've been hassled (and sometimes ticketed) enough for no good reason by the cops over the years to have a distaste for that profession. It seems like a little abuse of power goes a long way in forming attitudes. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being "very high respect" and 1 is no respect at all, what is your rating of how much you respect police? I give them about a 4. Maybe it's just those few bad apples that spoil the bushel.

Almtnman · « **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2006, 04:31:44 AM »

Without them it would still be like the wild, wild west, everybody would have to stand up for themselves.

Would you and your family be up to the challenge of taking on a bunch of thugs by yourself everywhere you went?

CallaoJoe · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2006, 04:34:44 AM »

With all police officers, I start em out as a level 10 in the respect category. Until they prove otherwise.

As any profession, there are always gonna be a few bad apples. But for the most part, I've only had good experiences with them.

BTW I am not in anyway associated with law enforcement.

pills · « **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2006, 05:10:44 AM »

I was a reserve officer with the local sheriffs office. I have seen folks that the power went to their head. Usually they get weeded out one way or another. They do something stupid and sooner or later getted canned. I have also seen officers that would die to protect someone who 2 weeks ago insulted every member in their family.

I agree with the above post. In fact that is a good rule to apply to everyone. I give the fullest of respect until someone gives me a reason not to. Even did that when arresting people. Sir, no sir, mam, no mam. Never had to get too physical.

I have passed this on to my wife and will share it here. A persons attitude many times will determine if you get a ticket or not. If you have a power hungry person and you show them respect you might just drive away with a warning. If you start mouthing them then you will most likely get a hard copy.

I am still involved with local law enforcement as I offer my services as a chaplain.

Questor · « **Reply #4 on:** November 22, 2006, 05:14:20 AM »

almtmman:

Probably not, but in any case the cops wouldn't be there to help me. I disagree with your argument. Can't recall seeing news of too many cases where cops helped anyone in immediate danger except in cases where a cop happened to be there at the moment. The patrol function of police is a valuable one, as is detective work and narcotics work and the enforcement of laws by rounding up criminals.

I think a lot of people's opinions are formed by the problematic area of traffic enforcement. Mine certainly has been. I wonder what the public perception of police, in general, would be if it were not for speed traps, selective enforcement of traffic laws, etc. Try travelling extensively in a shiny black sports car or motorcycle for a few years and you'll see what I mean. If you happen to be black, you'll get even more trouble.

The thread is intended as a discussion of people's perceptions of police. Having grown up with police in the family I know that policemen tend to feel unwanted by society and can become depressed by that idea. Suicide rates among cops is high. I wonder what causes that. My opinion is that it has a lot to do with traffic enforcement.

It would be very interesting to know what policemen say on this topic.

pills · « **Reply #5 on:** November 22, 2006, 05:19:21 AM »

I find the number one reason of depression to be the inability to seperate life from your job. When most go home from work there is a degree of leaving work @ work. When a LEO goes to bed he dreams of the accident that killed 3 kids.

I dont find many officers who are depressed because they wrote someone a speeding ticket.

Almtnman · « **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2006, 05:43:27 AM »

I'd have to agree with pills on this one. I used to be a LEO many yeras ago and seeing wrecks where people were literally torn apart bears a lot on your mind afterwards. Seeing a small kid hit by a car makes it even worse, it's hard to deal with no matter who or what you do as a job.

I enjoy seeing traffic enforecement at work as I have been run off the road and nearly involved in wrecks when speeders literally decide that it was a race track. Once a few years back, I was passing a vehicle on the Intersate and a car comes up behind me doing probably over a 100 miles per hour, blinking it's lights, tailgating and getting a few inches off my bumper. When I started passing, it wasn't back there. I guess since I was passing and trying to stay within the speed limit, that jerk didn't like it. Anyway, I did pass and moved over to the right aftrwards. The car passed on by and gave me the one finger salute. I shrugged it off as a nutcase. About a mile up the road, that car was pulled over by a Alabama state trooper and the trooper who looked like a big grizzly bear was sidling up to the car. I smiled and waved as I went by. I also said to myself, "thanks for the traffic enforcement, it paid off on that one"!

Questor · « **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2006, 05:59:13 AM »

That's good discussion. The reason I raised it in the first place is not to have a personal rant against the police. It's because this topic is seldom discussed and is worth discussing.

30-30man · « **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2006, 06:03:26 AM »

Most of the police officers I know make less than a school teacher. I have nothing but respect for anyone who is willing to serve our communities all for a whopping $30,000 a year. The starting pay for a highway patrolman in SC is around $27,000 a year. A game warden even makes less.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2006, 06:56:33 AM »

Gotta say I hold them pretty high on my list......

It's a tough job, dealing with the public, the boss, and the politics........

The problem with the law starts in the state legislature and the courts.

Now, that's not to say a little forward thinking would help the image.....

ggeilman · « **Reply #10 on:** November 22, 2006, 07:44:00 AM »

The problem is those bad apples have guns and the power of law behind them. We are fortunate locally to have a pretty good force here and I would give them a 7 or 8. In general, about a 6.

popplecop · « **Reply #11 on:** November 22, 2006, 07:52:41 AM »

Spent 30 years on the job. Worked as a city officer, traffic officer, stint in narcotics and finally a game warden. Have seen most of the high and low lights of enforcement. Have dealt with the cream of the crop of humanity and the lowest of the low. Do I respect them, you darn well know I do, been there done that. Do LE Officers stick together, yes we do and sometimes too much. Reason is that we understand each others problems. I also notice this in other proffessions, so may be it's human nature. Like gun people. If one is getting stopped by different officers for traffic violations, may be one should look at thier driving. May be room for improvement, may be not.

Questor · « **Reply #12 on:** November 22, 2006, 09:00:26 AM »

popplecop:

I've been legitimately ticketed a couple of times for doing stuff like not coming to a complete stop before turning, but the particular incidents I'm thinking of include:

1) Making a left turn in a residential neighborhood and getting stopped and ticketed by a cop who claimed I made an illegal left turn. Inspection of the sign showed that it was completely obscured by hanging vegetation. The cop had to have known that so I watched a while and he got two more people doing the same thing within 30 minutes of my ticket being written. It was obviously a trap being worked.

2) Driving with bumper-to-bumper turnpike traffic on a holiday weekend, going no faster or slower than anyone around me and being ticketed by one of the cops working a speed trap. My offense was speeding about 7mph over the limit just like everyone else as far as the eye could see. Must have liked that shiny black sports car.

3) Encountering several police blockades of roads where driver licenses of all drivers were being checked for validity. This practice was later outlawed.

4) Sitting at a traffic jammed left-turn lane where about 40 cars were waiting to make the turn. Most of these cars had gotten out of the main lane of traffic and sat idling in the turn lanes. Opposing traffic was nil. This was obviously a case of motorist cooperation to keep the busy main lane of traffic free flowing. There was obviously no safety hazard. Police arrived and all drivers who had used the turn lanes designed for opposing traffic were ticketed for driving on the wrong side of the road. Police made no attempt to direct traffic to override the poorly programmed lead light.

5) On multiple occasions, being detained by police for over an hour. Apparent reason was that I rode a motorcycle with an out-of-state plate. No offenses were noted. Comparing notes with outer motorcyclists revealed that this is a pretty common practice when travelling rural. How was I dressed? Helmeted, clean-cut, clean clothes. No leather other theatrical biker attire. On a stock, and quiet, Japanese mid-size touring bike. I was amazed at how many successful, clean-cut, professional people I met who were in their 40's, 50's and 60's who had encountered this pattern and always referred to cops as "the pigs".

6) Minnesota's use of special enforcement zones that are obviously designed to increase revenue by ticketing drivers going only a few mph over the limit. I saw Iowa's plans for applying the same kind of zones and they were definitely planned for revenue, not safety purposes. There were tens of millions of dollars worth of new programs that would be funded by this mechanism.

The pattern as I perceive it is that police are used for political purposes to apply questionable judgement that leads to increased revenues from traffic citations. The issue is nation-wide. The problem is that it really tarnishes the image of the police.

loaded4bear · « **Reply #13 on:** November 22, 2006, 09:22:50 AM »

Questor,
Where are you located? Your profile lists your location as "Bermuda", & I would think laws there might influence how the police opperate differently from in the USA (ie: the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc.)

Questor · « **Reply #14 on:** November 22, 2006, 09:33:50 AM »

I'm in Minnesota. Sansabelt, Bermuda is just a joke.

rockbilly · « **Reply #15 on:** November 22, 2006, 11:15:18 AM »

Questor, this is not a poke in the eye, but I would be willing to bet when stopped you had done something wrong.

I have been stopped many time over the years, and many different experiences with LEO, some were not to ,y liking, but in all cases, after some thought, the cop was right in the action he took against me. I have been around the world several times, and lived in some places where the cops were questable, comparing what I have seen in other countries, I fell we are blessed with what we have knowing that occassionally one will step outside the boundries. Without the cops and the job they do we would be nothing more than one of the border town across the border in Mexico wher the thug with the most mone rules the community. Thanks, but I will stick with what we have.

Sansbelt, Minn, do they still have the Midwest Country Music Show there every Saturday night? I had a good time there several years ago, would like to return someday.

Questor · « **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2006, 12:25:11 PM »

rockbilly:

I have done plenty of things wrong and am quick to admit it when I do. I'm not including any of those cases in this discussion. In the cases I recall being hassled, it really was just getting hassled. In the examples I gave above, I admit to speeding and "driving on the wrong side of the road", or at least waiting in traffic on what was technically the wrong side of the road. What I question is the officer's response under the conditions. I give a variety of examples:
1 was clearly a trap
2 and 4 are violations of the law in cases where safe driving under prevailing conditions was technically a violation of the law
3 and 6 were cases of abuse of power
5 is just bubba cops looking to give an out-of-towner a hard time, so it's another abuse of power. (I should point out that if there are two cops in such a case, they are usually snickering at each other about something. It's clearly not a case where I happen to match the description of somebody who just robbed a bank, for example. I only recall one such case where I was asked what I was doing in the area and that was a snickering cop scenario.)

victorcharlie · « **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2006, 12:32:51 PM »

There again, the problem isn't with the cops.....it's with the people who set the laws......

If there is a problem in the department, it's because the chief expects revenue. We recently had the city counsel complain because one of our elected judges was throwing out to many cases and not generating enough revenue. He has stayed the course and told the city council that his job wasn't revenue enhancement. Hurah for him.

The United States incarcerates more people per capita than any other country in the world. It's hard to argue human rights to other countries while we make most if not all citizens criminals.

We have way to many laws and far to many regulations. We have become an over-governed nation.

Remember liberty?

As for the police, they just do what they're told to do.......because the only other choice is to quit.

Again, it's a tough job being a cop....but every body loves a fireman!

williamlayton · « **Reply #18 on:** November 22, 2006, 01:32:06 PM »

You take folks as you find them--some deserve respect, some do not.
It is a tough job--some are good at it, some should be doing something else.
If I had to find fault it would be on the end that would not find the guilty but would want to close a file. As i said some are good at it and some not.
My general findings are that most do a good job--those tha do not are generally not equipped to do a good job--in the sense that they should be doing something else.
Those that investigate draw more suspecion from me than others.
Blessings

NYH1 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 22, 2006, 05:57:30 PM »

On a scale of 1 to 10, I'll give the LEO's in my area a 9. I've dealt with a few 10's and a 5 or so. Just about all have been a lot closer to 10 then 5!

Rogue Ram · « **Reply #20 on:** November 22, 2006, 06:19:28 PM »

I've been in the business 20+ years now, on East and West Coast, local and Fed agencies. I can tell you this: these cops running "speed traps", writing people tickets for less than 15 mph over the limit on freeways, and small municipalities running their own private highway patrol to pad the city coffers are an EMBARASSMENT to the profession, PERIOD. Trust me, in nearly any metro, suburban, or rural jurisdiction with any population, bagging bad guys is a turkey shoot. In big cities day and evening shift cops don't have time for much hunting, they are going call to call.....late evening and midnights, for Christ sakes, drunk drivers, warrants, stolen cars, hot calls, take yer pick. The morons running around writing books of tickets with chicken feathers on them are just that, morons. There are plenty of good traffic tickets to write for aggressive dangerous drivers and/or serious violations.

Funny, I have NEVER seen the "thin blue line". NEVER. I agree with to a point with popplecop, some of us good guys stick together, but IMHO, my enemy isn't the guy whose warrant I am trying to serve, it's the people in my own office. Obviously I respect the profession, and most of the rank and file. HOWEVER, most of today's LEO managers are creating an environment where common sense in the profession isn't a requirement for employment, and have let politics and $$$ get in the way of doing the job.

My attitude on and off the job towards other cops is the way I want to be treated on the job: I'll give them respect and admiration until they give me a reason not to. This means they "do the right thing" when using officer discretion. Sorry if any of you have been hounded or mistreated for no reason.

Just wanting to retire,

RR

popplecop · « **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2006, 02:59:05 AM »

If it is a bad law, contact your legislators and explain your view. If you think you have been wronged, use the court system. There is no problem in asking questions of the officer, just do it in the manner that you would like it done of you. A even voice and respectful tone always made me listen to the persons point of view, but watch the body language.

azmike · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2006, 06:29:34 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on November 23, 2006, 12:18:23 AM

Well, I've been involved firsthand with the criminal injustice system. Wrongfully accused and charged. Let me say first that I come from a LE family--my father was a highly credentialed and respected topcop and nationally known. But after my eyeopener with the law forgetabouit,,,I'm am now a fulltime critic....they and the system are THE PROBLEM. And I don't buy into the myth of what a hard job it is either. What I really liked, after paying thousands of dollars to vindicate myself and prove innocence, was the weekly calls from the Benevolent Officers Fund, the Police Atheletic Leaque, the police DARE assoc., and about seven other 'affiliated' groups wanting a handout...this shows how out of touch they are.

..........TM7

In defense of my colleagues, I must point out that, at least in my area, the police don't decide who gets prosecuted. LEOs merely present the case to the City/District/U.S. Attorney, and THEY make the decision to take the case forward or not.

On the other hand, I will admit that there are some dirtbags in uniform that have slipped through the cracks. Unfortunate and frustrating, but true.

jh45gun · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2006, 07:07:07 AM »

Most Cops are good guys and got into that game to help people not hassle them. As a side note Game Wardens I think have the more dangerous job as they frequently stop people that have guns in their possession. A lot of them have are also have been deuputized by the sheriffs depts and work closely with them. My Brother is a Retired Warden and knows Popple Cop. Hey while there may be a few that may be over the top most are just human like the rest of us and may be prone to a bad day once in a while. Yea that may not be professional but it happens to all of us. You got to figure these guys have to deal with the scum of society and still come to the rescue of us normal citizens and sometimes dealing with the lowlifes must get to the best of them. I always felt if I got stopped I was doing something wrong and was friendly to the officer. That goes a long way lets face it if any one gets in your face it ticks you off. LEO's are no different they react to how you respond to them. A little respect and kindness goes a long way.

igor · « **Reply #24 on:** November 23, 2006, 09:53:45 AM »

police for a large part hold the position of a foreign force in occupation of a country they distance themselves from citizens with words like civilians us and them

azshooter · « **Reply #25 on:** November 23, 2006, 10:13:04 AM »

Police(City) - I give a 9. Just because of the stuff I read - never met a bad apple myself.

Highway Patrol - Every single one I have met has been an emotionless robot - 2-3. Higher than thou attitude. Been pulled over for 5 mph over at the bottom of a hill once. Been pulled over for having my DMV tag on my plate being "Too Light". Sun bleached it out. HP have been regular idiots to me.

Game Wardens - 10 - Every one I have met in the field has been a good guy that treated me well.

Brett · « **Reply #26 on:** November 24, 2006, 03:04:32 AM »

I think it's a case of a few bad apples. I personally have never had any real problems with a LEO. Every time I've had any contact with them while on duty I have treated them with respect and received like treatment in return with only one exception. As far as traffic cops go I have been let go with a verbal warning far more often than I have been ticketed. Over the years I have had several friends and neighbors who were/are LOEs. Law enforcement is often a dangerous, stressful, frustrating and thankless job, one I would not want.

Rogue Ram · « **Reply #27 on:** November 24, 2006, 05:56:35 PM »

I can sympathize with TM7 and others. A moron cop can cost you big dollars folks. Take your fight to court at what cost? Good luck! I wound up on the other end of things in 2002. I have an older thread on this site in the Western Big Game Hunting topic on "how an entire hunting party nearly went to jail". READ IT. If you don't believe it that's your choice. I have posted the story various places to warn people about Nevada and the way they do things. They purposefully leave gates open; if you drive through and don't close em, they FINE YOU. Even on BLM property. They laughed about doing this, heard it out of their own mouths. State cop from neighboring State did what we did: got turned around, shot a deer, realized his mistake, went to a phone and called to tell them. A ticket? Of course not! Lets haul him 5 hours in cuffs to jail!

Guys like this and ones described above were the little weenies that got picked on in school and.or some complete nut case who weaseled their way into Police work, and what you read above is the result.

I have to work with a kid who: 1. ran over his toddler with a riding mower 2. left his service pistol where his other kid could get it and the kid shot his hand off 3. has actually sent his wife into places undercover with a video camera 4. has been in at least 5 minor wrecks, damaged God knows how many official vehicles yet no one does anything to him 5. has actually run through someone's house chasing a person who is not even wanted just to try and interview him, and cuffed some resident he came across in the house to an appliance and kept on running...........by himself...no one with him.........and came back later to figure out who it was he'd hooked to the appliance. 6. has been caught defrauding a coworker

And you are thinking I just made all that up.

TM7s attitude is understandable. Sad but true. Be a good citizen, but blend.......unless you know your local Five O personally. Things aren't the same as they were even 5 years ago in this profession.

Waiting to retire........

RR

Topper · « **Reply #28 on:** November 25, 2006, 02:48:37 AM »

If you don't like the way I police - When you're woken up in the middle of the night by some crack head breaking in through your downstairs kitchen window... call the pizza man. Besides I'll probably be too busy setting up a speed trap or better yet sleeping in my patrol unit behind k-mart.

Eight years away from a thirty year retirement - KMA

eye shot · « **Reply #29 on:** November 25, 2006, 05:22:14 AM »

I took the CCL classes and decided not to get the permit. The reason is I know some HP is going to stop me when he runs my plate. They think there the only ones that should carry. HP's-3. Make this legal-Vigilance Committe- a group extralegally assuming authority for summary action professedly to keep order and punish crime because of the alleged lack or failure of the usual law-enforcement agencies. Know take out these three words and read it-extalegally, professedly, and alleged! All cops a 5.