Iraq KIA

[Graybeard]

My time is too limited right now for a long discussion BUT no they didn't stop. They paused but for a blink of an eye in time and are right back at it again. They NEVER STOP, they pause until the moment is again ripe for them nothing more.

Islam is a very dangerous cancer, a boil on the butt of humanity. It will always be a danger to all the rest of the world until it either wipes us out or we do the same to it. It's just that the folks who need to realize this just don't seem to want to admit it.

[powderman]

nabob. Yep, they stop every time they get their butts kicked and lick their wounds. As soon as they feel strong enough, they go right on persecuting and murdering. If the world would just shut it's eyes for a bit, Israel would end forever your palestinian problem, more of the Godless ones.
GRAYBEARD. I used to have this as part of my sig. Islam is a fast growing cancer, a boil on the butt of the world. I was told I couldn't use it, have you changed your mind about it, since you said the same thing? POWDERMAN. 

[no guns here]

If you know what it means... you will appreciate that an appropriate response to Islamic terrorists and threats is a "two key turn response" and 30 minutes to relax...


ngh

[nabob]

Guys, the idea that they just won't stop won't hold water.

Charles Martel beat them at Tours. They had 700 years to come back north. They didn't. If you read the Arab histories of that period, you'll find that they considered the battle at Tours no more than a skirmish, engaging as it did only a very small part of the Muslim army. They could have come back any time and squashed Martel. They didn't. So how does that fit in with the idea that they only stop to lick their wounds and keep trying to kill all nonMuslims? It doesn't.

700 years is a bit more than a blink of the eye.

They stopped in the Balkans for about 500 years. Another pretty long blink, if you ask me.

I think that the theory that they won't stop coming against us doesn't stand up to analysis. After all, we (the West/Christian nations) haven't been engaged in continual conflict with them, have we? So if they won't stop coming, what have they been doing for the past 500 years?

Has anyone considered the possibility that by viewing Islam monolithically, you are committing the same error that they do when they view us in the same manner? Islam is not a homogenous whole, as the Sunni/Shia split should show. There are all sorts of currents and eddies in something so big as to encompass 1 billion people. We shouldn't learn more about that and exploit that to our advantage? We should just blunder on in like we did in Iraq? We didn't bother to learn about the tensions in that society and now we are paying the price. You all want to do that AGAIN? Didn't Iraq teach us anything?

I'd also like to have someone explain just how it is that we've decided that it was Islam that we were fighting during the Crusades and in the Balkans and in front of the gates of Vienna. From their point of view, if you read their histories, it wasn't Islam that we were fighting so much as it was a territorially expansionist Muslim who was not fighting to spread his religion but for the usual desire of land, treasure and power. So how did people get the idea that it was Islam specifically that was the problem after the initial expansion of the religion in its infancy? True, that was about spreading religion. But they stopped. For 300 years, they did not seek to expand into Europe. Sure, there was some localized stuff but no real all-out effort the way the initial push came. So what makes people decide that Islam was the problem and not just Islamic idiots wanting more "stuff"?

Lest you think this is an "out there" question, consider that Muslims view Israel as a Crusader state. They see a nonMuslim state, wrested from Muslim territory, which is hostile to them, just as the Crusader states were. They see us in the west as coming against THEM. The same sort of apocalyptic "it is us or them/gotta kill them all" rhetoric that is going on in this thread is exactly what some over there are thinking.

You two groups are going to wind up blowing up the world before you are done. Some of us would like to live in peace and not bequeath unending war to our children.

And did anyone stop to think just HOW we can kill 1 billion people from Morocco to Indonesia? It can't be done. There is no physical way to do it. Nuke 'em? We don't have nearly enough. Besides, if you didn't get all of them, all you do is ensure that for the rest of our lives, we'd be fighting terrorists from the Muslim world since they'd revenge themselves just like they are doing in Iraq. You want to make our nation live in fear like Israel does, of a car bomb or a suicide bomber? That's your gameplan?

Think it through, guys. We lose NOTHING by trying first to work with anyone and everyone who is willing to work with us. If we fail and have to start Armageddon, we've lost nothing but time. I'd kinda like to ensure that I stand before my maker with an answer to the question: did you do your best to avoid killing as many of my children as you could? And yes, that means that I consider Muslims to be children of God as much as I do Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Shintoists, pagans, agnostics and atheists. I might have to kill to defend myself, but I want to know that I did everything I could to ensure that to avoid that. I won't lay down and die for anyone but I also won't run with a smile to go kill anyone, either.

I think there seems to be a lot of people who look forward to the prospect of killing Muslims, though.

[myronman3]

some men just cant be reached.   thankfully,  we still have "wolves" amongest us; those who will lay down their lives for others.   

those who would prefer to stick their heads in the sand and pretend they will be just fine make me very sad.   nothing that is said is going to wake you up.  i pray people like that arent the ones who shape the future. 

[nabob]

I also pray that people like you won't be making my future, so we at least have that in common.

Love the "wolf" imagery. Muy macho!

[myronman3]

it is people like me that make it possible for you to have your view and express it openly.  when these people you are so actively defending are running the show,  your types will be the first they slaughter.   i know you disagree,  save your breath.   just remember that when they slowly cut your head off.....
  better a wolf than a sheep......

[Sourdough]

Been there, know them well.  I know the common man on the street.  I know his views and his beliefs.  I speak the language, but seldom let them know it.  I don't need to have an interprator tell me what they say behind my back, I hear it myself.  Interparators usually don't tell me what they said anyway, they tell me something else, gloss it over. 

The Emmans, tell the poor they are living as Allah ment for them to live, people that have more are sinners and Allah will punish them.  Therefore they are content to live in squallor, no education, no real future other than to serve allah.  The average man on the street cannot read or write.  They depend solely on what they are told by the religious leaders, and word of mouth from poor man to poor man.  The more affulent people live in fear that the poor will target them as sinners, so they keep a low profile.  It is the poor, and the young, that are targeted for recruitment to do the bidding of the so called radicals.  Islamic law is designed to give the religious leaders all the power.  Islamic law helps to keep the populious poor, and subservient.  I remember back when the Shea was disposed, anyone in Iran who owned a microwave was stoned. I knew a man, at that time, who had a daughter living just north of Tahran.  She and her husband were well educated.  That mear fact sort of put them on the Black List so to speak.  After the religious leaders took over the country, they started pointing out who should be killed.  The daughter of the man I knew, and her husband was killed.  Their children disappeared.  Friends of his stood by and watched the crowds kill them, afraid to do anything themselves.  The reason given by the crowd for their killing?  The couple had gone to school outside of Iran, and they had a microwave, therefore they were sinners against Allah.  This is the mentallity of the people.   

Hezzbala?  Some people think it is a new organization, or an organization fighting only Isreal?  Think again, they are the ones that blew up our embassey in Beiruit in 83.  Later that year I left two of their members lying on the tarmac at the Beiruit airport.  That cost me my left lung. 

I have my own openion of how to handle them.  Black Jack Pershing understood them.  I feel he was right.  Ever wonder why Russian Embassies are not hit, or messed with?  Back in 83 a Russian embassador was killed.  The following day five members of Hezzbala was found on the streets of Beiruit.  They had been beheaded, and their privates had been removed.  Hezzbala don't mess with the Russians.

Now for my view!    Starting at Pakistan, straight to Syria.  Then Egypt, to Morraco.  NUKE THEM TILL THEY GLOW! 
Yes that leaves Lebanon, Jordan, and Saudi.  A buffer around Isreal is needed, don't want to cause them harm.  And Isreal can handle them on their own.

[nabob]

myronman: Such drama! Funny, isn't it, how a voice of moderation gets tarred as "actively defending" terrorists. Someone says "hey, we might not have to go to Armageddon, let's see if we can avoid it first before rushing off to die" is automatically sticking up for the enemy? What culture of death are you serving?

Sourdough: It is impossible to irradiate that sort of territory and if you miss anyone, you condemn us to live like Israel now does, with suicide bombers and car bombs. Nuclear weapons are not the panacea we seem to think they are. An enemy that can fight us asymmetrically isn't going to be much impressed with what you propose. It would more likely ensure that the ones that are left are going to be at our throats for the next thousand years. You want to wish that on our children? I don't.

By the way, that still leaves quite a few Muslims. You don't think that maybe the ones left might want to make the US into another unconventional battlefield as they did in Iraq? How many terrorists are needed to cause us a lot of pain? Your solution would simply ensure that more are created where maybe we didn't have to. That, to me, is counterproductive.

So guys, riddle me this: what do we lose by trying other methods first? Why are you all so convinced that we must "kill them all", even when that is impossible? What makes you all so eager to rush out and kill people? Why, if someone like me wants to try other methods first, are you so incensed and start in on the vituperations about how I'm supporting the enemy? I tend to think that people like you are going to get us ALL killed needlessly because you've embraced en masse the same sort of culture of death that many Muslims have. Two peas in a pod.

I want something better for my children than a world of endless warfare.

[jimster]

 nabob, I'm all for you trying other methods. So go talk to them. But I prefer not to watch the video they make of you while your trying a different method.
What in the world could you possibly say to people who want you dead anyway? They would care if you spit on them before they beheaded you, or if you sow them sympathy...all the same to them.
Your right about not getting every one of them....but how nice it would be to only have to deal with a handfull instead of a billion. There is one thing they do understand....death and destruction and fear. This they understand because they use it on other people.
I'm not sure I like the idea of large nukes...a whole bunch of smaller ones sounds right to me....level one place at a time and just quietly ask..."anybody else?"
There will always be wars, it must be the nature of the world...and as long as there will always be wars, might as well win with total overwhelming force that is unimaginable.
This sounds cruel and barbaric to be sure. But what your dealling with are people who are just that. The only way they would agree with anything you have to say is if you bow your head in front of them, and let them cut it off.
Are all Muslims bad? Looks to me like the Muslim world have little to say...that tells me what I need to know right there.
If there are any good ones, they are not practicing their faith....
My opinion...they vary for sure.

[billy_56081]

I beleive Islam is a cancer on this world and needs to be irradiated. Kill em all man woman and child.       Just my opinion.

[nabob]

Jimster, we presently work with plenty of other nations, so my suggestion is NOW being done.

Not every Muslim wants us dead. That is just plain simplistic thinking. We work with Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Indonesia, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Egypt - where do you or anyone else get the idea that "all" Muslims want us dead? Obviously that is not the case or we'd be at war with the very countries we are working with against terrorism. The idea that they "all" want us dead just isn't borne out in the real world, folks. We are presently working with Muslims so not all of them want us dead.

How many Muslim terrorists did it take to fly into the Twin Towers and shake our financial system? A handful. Still like the idea of only dealing with a handful of committed terrorists who don't mind dying? The "kill them all" strategy GUARANTEES that we will end up living like the Israelis. People who WANT to die are not impressed by the fact you can kill them. What you are doing is assuming that they will think like we do. They don't. Believing your opponent will react the way you expect him to react is EXACTLY the type of simplistic thinking that got us into trouble in Iraq. We assumed that because we are enamored of democracy, so would they be. They weren't. They were more concerned with an invading army than the blessings of our political system. Imagine that. They didn't react the way we expected them to and the place went to heck until we now are trying to find a way out of the swamp. And you want to do it again?

Not me.

There is no possible way to kill all of them. Even if you could, since we would also be killing the entire population of nations that are presently working with us, your position is that we should kill people who are helping us? Scratch that, you want to kill off people who are not trying to kill us because someday they MIGHT?

There is a fascination with death that zealots in the Muslim world and the Christian world have. A culture of death is being embraced by those who don't want to try to find a way around killing, who revel in it and look forward eagerly to the opportunity to kill the infidel. Both Christians and Muslims are similarly afflicted and I've heard it on this thread.

I think you and everyone else needs to start making some distinctions. No one is considering talking with Al Qaeda. Those people need to be killed as soon as we can find them. What I'm talking about is talking to other Muslims for whom AQ is also a threat and cooperating with them. That, by the way, is what we are presently doing. Yet you all want to stop doing that and "kill them all"? Even those that are presently helping us? Because every Muslim is out to kill us? Even the ones that we are working with?

How do you all arrive at that idea, that even the ones we are working with really want to kill us? Doesn't anyone make a distinction between the terrorists and the rest of Islam? I don't think you do since any suggestion that we work with Muslims has been shouted down as "you can't talk to terrorists, you're gonna die, all Muslims want to kill us". Holy cats! Not even the most fire-breathing radicals in the far right wing think that yet here, it is received wisdom, unquestioned and inspired. And if someone challenges that, he's supporting terrorists.

A culture of death, that's what you've bought into. That's what you want to hand down to future generations - unending war and death waiting every time they venture outdoors. And you all run to embrace it. 

[billy_56081]

If we kill them ALL. No problem. Its just that simple.

[powderman]

nabob. I believe you know that we speak the truth, and it scares the crap out of you. If an all out attack were made against the Godless ones you are right about one thing, there would be some survivors. They would NOT be a threat because they would do their best to never be seen again. POWDERMAN. 

[powderman]

nabob. Another fallcy you have is that Israel was conquered muslim land. Israel was given that land by God many years before satan and mohamed dreamed up the islamic cult. Israel has given up way too much territory over the years, I doubt God is happy with that. In the back of our old Bible there is a map of Gods initial gift to the Israelites of lands he gave to them. Look it up. I'd like to see them take it all back. Their land went North as far as damascus, included part of jordan, etc. Don't say that Israel is the trespassers, they aren't. POWDERMAN. 

[nabob]

billy: it is impossible to kill them all. Can't be done, though the fact that people like to think about doing it is kinda disgusting.

powderman: I believe you speak the truth about wanting to kill them all and THAT is what scares me. People like you are no different than people like them. And I didn't say that Israel conquered Muslim land. If you read the post I made, I said that's how MUSLIMS view the situation. I didn't say that was my viewpoint. I haven't offered one on the subject.

So all you folks that want to "kill them all", explain this to me:

A terrorist is a terrorist because he kills innocent civilians, people that are not engaged in doing anything against him. The people on this thread want to kill civilians as well, people that are not engaged in doing anything against us.

A terrorist justifies his actions by saying "no one is innocent, they are all guilty." The people on this thread justify their actions the same way.

So you've willingly become terrorists? You justify the same actions with the same reasoning. What makes any of you any different than Al Qaeda?

Not one single thing, in my opinion.

There are people that think exactly like you folks in the Muslim world. We call them terrorists and criminals. Both the terrorists on this thread and the Muslim terrorists are trying their hardest to bring on a war that will kill many people needlessly, all because they've both decided that hate and revenge is more important than life. A culture of death is what you've made for yourselves and you are willing to drag the rest of us into your personal needs for revenge.

There is NO difference between an Al Qaeda terrorist wanting to fly an airplane into the Twin Towers and someone who says "nuke them all". No difference at all.

[nabob]

And this idea that "if we kill enough of them, they'll just worry about staying alive and won't seek revenge."

That is just plain false.

Terrorists court death NOW, for goodness sakes. Killing them makes no difference to a terrorist. They WANT to die for their god. Killing a lot of Muslims merely ensures that you create more terrorists who are not going to be impressed at all with the threat of death. They willingly blow THEMSELVES up. Us doing it is somehow going to change their minds?

The mistake you make with this idea is that you expect them to think like you want them to react. We wanted them to be so impressed with our "shock and awe" campaign in Iraq that they would not fight. They did. We wanted them to be so grateful for getting rid of Saddam that they'd welcome us with open arms. They didn't. We thought they'd be so happy to have a voice in their own future that they'd settle down and be a nice, orderly nation. They didn't.

Right down the line, our own misjudgments about how they'd react have cost us big time. So what is the lesson you all take from it?

Apparently, it is to keep doing the same sort of miscalculation.

Let me ask you: what was your reaction when the Twin Towers came down. Same as mine, probably: let's go get them. ("them", though, for me, were the people behind the terrorist act, not all Muslims everywhere). So if your reaction to an act of terror was to revenge yourself, you don't think that someone else might have that exact same reaction? You expect them to respond like the Japanese?

They aren't Japanese, guys. The mistake you make is that you expect them to act like the last people we dropped a bomb on. Times are different, the culture is different. A culture that courts death isn't going to be much impressed with death. The fact that many of you are so filled with hate that you are willing to do such things as "nuke them all" should be a warning that there is no longer any difference between them and you.

[billy_56081]

What would they do if they could not go on a pilgrimage to Mecca? I beleive that all muslims are supposed to go to Mecca at least once. I know we can't kill em all but we can kill most of these animals, and yes ALL muslims are animals. But we can destroy there "holy" places. And make them completly uninhabitable for thousands of years. All muslims want to subjegate the world under Islam. The ones who are acting as our friends will stab us in the back whenever they get a chance. Islam is a sick rabid cult thought up by a theiving, child molesting, murdering tyrant to keep his people under his thumb. The silly muslims are still believing this BS today.

[nabob]

I know we can't kill em all but we can kill most of these animals, and yes ALL muslims are animals. But we can destroy there "holy" places. And make them completly uninhabitable for thousands of years.

And there you have it folks. This isn't about making us safer, it is about getting back at "them". It is about hate and revenge, not about doing things that make us safer from them.

Using our military to work off personal anger is not what I do. I go chop wood or something. Others want to see bloodshed. So it goes.

[myronman3]

let me make this really easy....

nabob....put your money wherer your mouth is.  get off your butt,  instead of chopping wood,  take your offer to the heathens.    what are you going to do, other than plead for mercy when the day comes?  nothing.   i know your type.   dad warned me about people like you along time ago,  ones that talk a good ball game but never actually held a bat.   

i am through wasting my time with you; and everyone else here should be too.   i love reading and listening to folks like you.   the louder you get, the more you talk, the more people see how silly your stance is.   keep talking,  preaching,  or whatever you want to call it.   you just prove our point the longer you keep at it. 

ha ha,  have a great day!  (feel free to belittle my posts as much as you want,  like i said, i am done with this waste of my precious time)

[nabob]

Let me make this simple for you, myronman:

That's why we have elected representatives. Or did they skip that in your education? We express opinions, our elected representatives convey that to their fellow representatives and the policy of the United States gets thereby made.

Did they skip that part of your schooling? It can be found in the Constitution you were supposed to be defending. Did you bother to read it? Please read it again and focus on Articles 1 and 2.

I guess when one doesn't have any sort of a real argument, posts such as yours substitute.

[powderman]

It IS about keeping us safer, not revenge. Using your line of thinking it would be ok to let a rabid dog run wild. You would probably let it go until it bit a child, then you'd want SOMEBODY ELSE to do something. Another thing. We are NOT like them. I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord, and saviour, they turn their back on him. They have rejected him since the inception of satans islamic cult was started by mohamed. There is NO COMPARISON between Christians, who have accepted Christ, and those Godless ones who have rejected him totally for thousands of years. Don't even start with the Jews, they have their own covenent with God and their eyes will be opened in the end times. Support these Godless scum all you want, your loss, but don't expect the rest of the world to welcome them with open arms. I do not understand how you can call yourself a Christian and turn a blind eye to the workings of these devils. You stick up for them , knowing that they reject Christ. You might need to do some real soul searching because you support the cult that was designed to destroy everything that Jesus Christ taught, and built. Going to work, have a nice day. POWDERMAN. 

[nabob]

Using your line of thinking it would be ok to let a rabid dog run wild.

Nope, it is about shooting only the rabid dogs, not all dogs.

We are NOT like them.

When you adopt their tactics ("kill them all") and use their justifications ("because they are all guilty") you ARE like them. There is no difference between either of you on those points. It doesn't matter what you profess, it matters what you do. And "kill them all" is doing the same thing they are trying to do. That makes you the same as them.

I do not understand how you can call yourself a Christian and turn a blind eye to the workings of these devils.

I don't see how any Christian can support "kill them all", so that makes us about even. I'm for going after the people who are actually DOING the work of the devil, not the folks who are not. You want to kill them all, including those that are not doing anything against us. I think that I can safely imagine what Jesus would say to THAT proposition.

You stick up for them , knowing that they reject Christ.

My hope is their conversion, not their death. That's the difference between you and me. When Jesus said "love your fellow man", I took him at his word. You didn't.

[billy_56081]

It is silly and child like to think we can have dialog and peacful relations with these animals.

[nabob]

Our President is doing it, so how silly and childlike can it be?

[jimster]

nabob, as far as working with "other nations"...I don't care much for some of the "other nations"...some of them would, and have turned their backs on us, even though we defended them.  I don't need all the "other nations" to help find a solution to this, they seem to have their hands full keeping their own place from burning to the ground...France ring a bell?
I didn't say all Muslins want us dead either, I said their silence in this matter is defening...and it is, and you know it.
At some point...when thigs get bad enough, when there is another attack, or two, or three more....at some point we will get ot the point where we will no longer try to "look good" or be politically correct....we'll end it.
We'll be able to talk to the few who are left more easily.

The question is, how long will we wait...not if we will or not...oh, we will....it always comes to that, and always will, it's just how long it will take.

I see no reason to have talks with anyone, I'd rather see a cruise missle hit the potium the next time the President of Iran speaks in public. Now that would be impressive....

[powderman]

JIMSTER. I agree Sir. I loved it when stormin Norman was asked if he was going in to negotiate with the Godless ones after their surrender in 93. He looked the reporter straight in the face and said, negotiate hell, I'm here to tell the sobs what they're gonna do, then they're gonna do it. Thats the kind of leadership we need, and the right attitude dealing with the Godless ones. The dumcraps and other libbies keep knocking president Bush while ignoring the fact that all attempts to hit us again these past 5 years have been stopped due to the aggressive actions taken against these scum. On the news just now they showed another of nabobs peaceful muslim converts in custody after  being caught before he could carry out an attack on American civilians in  a mall. He said he wanted to kill Americans. We will be hit again, probably worse than the last time. Not a matter of if, only of when. Maybe then we will get serious about these scum. Islam is a fast growing cancer, a boil on the butt of the world. That used to be part of my sig. POWDERMAN. 

[nabob]

It really doesn't matter if we "like" other nations that we work with. All that counts is that they cooperate.

Nations don't have relationships like people. They have interests. They pursue these interests and when two nations' interests coincide, they ally until their objectives are met. Then they part company until their interests coincide again. I say this because viewing international relations in personal terms is a mistake.

Second, we really DO need other nations to help us out, as Iraq has shown quite convincingly. Going it alone sounded great until it came time to occupy Iraq. Then we found out that going it alone wasn't such a hot idea after all and we are looking for help wherever we can find it to get ourselves out. And you think that making this mistake again is a GOOD idea? We do great at beatint the snot out of armies. Unfortunately, this "war" isn't going to use conventional methods. We need Muslims to go after Muslims.

And, in case anyone is interested, Turkey did that just today when they arrested the head of Al Qaeda in Turkey. AQ has blown up stuff there as well and this took out a major cell. That should show that terrorists are also a danger to other Muslims and that they have an interest in helping us get them. And you think that it would be better to go it alone? When there is the possibility of help? For goodness sakes why? Pride?

Yep, the silence in the Muslim world tells me that there is tacit approval of radical Muslims. The trick is to keep that from becoming ACTIVE approval and support. We don't want to make the problem we face larger, do we?

There is no possibility of "ending it" based on our military. That should be abundantly clear from how things are going in Iraq. About the only thing left are nukes and we can't nuke enough of them to keep the rest of them from seeking revenge. All it takes is one, say, poisoning a water supply, to make us pay dearly. There just is no military solution to this problem, folks, much as we like to think there is. The problem will not be solved by blowing things up.

Norman Schwartzkopf was in a wee bit different position in 1993 than we are today. He could dictate because he had control. We don't. We can dictate all we want but since we don't have control, no one will bother listening.

Anybody bother to read the Iraq Study Group's recommendations? These aren't Democrats and liberals that are saying the same things I am. These are well-known conservatives such as James Baker who have said that the key to turning Iraq around will be found in working with other Muslim nations. But, of course, learning about the situation isn't nearly as much fun as chest-thumping about "kill them all".

Powderman, the guy you talk about is a "terrorist". How many times have I stated on this thread that "terrorists" are the ones we need to go after, not the ones who are  not "terrorists"? Or are you so blinded by hate that you believe all Muslims are terrorists? After all, you were the one that wanted to commit genocide. How will you explain that desire to your maker on Judgment Day? "Yes, Lord, I wanted to kill every man, woman and child who was a Muslim. I didn't care if they were guilty or not, I just wanted them to die. No, I sure wouldn't like to have the same standard used when you judge me, Lord. I want you to treat me differently than I chose to treat others."

But as you sow, so shall you reap. To the merciful, mercy is given. I wonder what happens to those that don't want to be merciful and who want to kill the guilty along with the innocent? Well, actually, I have a pretty good idea.

[powderman]

nabob. By  your own admission your so called GOOD muslims support the terrorists. If they support the enemy, they ARE the enemy. You can say it, but not understand it. Islam is the enemy. As long as there are those who believe and practice satans cult, they are enemies. Islam is a fast growing cancer, a boil on the butt of the world. POWDERMAN.   

[billy_56081]

     Yes revenge is one of the motives. But also beating these animals so badly that they can never recover is the only way. The filthy muslim animals count on silly people that think negotiation is the way to peace to keep them from being decimated. Osama Bin Laden even mentioned that the way we cut and ran from Somalia was an emboldening thing for Al Quida.

    Negotiation is just a way for these lying rabid muslim animals to buy time to gain more vicious weapons. How long do you you think it would have taken these "friendly muslims" to turn over Bin Laden and his animal friends if on sept. 12, 2001 President Bush would  have given an ultimatum of Nuking One holy sight and city every week until he was turned in?

    Beating these animals into complete submission is the only way to defeat them.