Author Topic: Iraq KIA (Read 4371 times)

nabob · « **Reply #90 on:** December 10, 2006, 01:58:48 AM »

Wrong again, powderman. Tacit approval is not the same as active support. You want to be able to justify genocide, that's your problem. The only people that are terrorists are those that are doing the terrorizing or those that actively help them accomplish their ends. Almost all the Muslim world maybe looks on and doesn't mind if we get hit but that's NOT the same as being a part of the hitting. Look for your reasons to slaughter innocent people someplace other than my words. I choose them carefully.

By your reasoning, if your brother (assuming you have one) commits adultery against his wife, you are also guilty of adultery against your own. By your reasoning, since the soldiers that raped a girl and murdered her and her family in Hamadi were supported by us, then we are all just as guilty of rape and murder.

Oddly enough, though, that is EXACTLY the same sort of reasoning Al Qaeda uses to justify THEIR acts against us. Powderman, meet your blood brother: Osama Bin Laden. You and he both use the same reasoning to justify murdering those that are not involved in any criminal activities. There is no difference between you and him.

billy: Revenge is not good enough when you talk about sending our soldiers into battle. It has to be in our interests, otherwise you are using other people to work off your anger and letting them do the dying for you. That's pretty low, in my opinion.

I love the "cut and run" statement. You seem to want to throw more American lives away, more of our national treasure away, just so Osama can't say bad things about us? First rule of holes: when you are in one, stop digging. Bush got us into this mess and doing more of the same thing that isn't working just so Osama won't say mean things about us isn't much of a reason to continue.

There is no complete submission. That's a pipe dream. The people you expect to say "no more" to killing have, like you, have such a fondness for death of the "infidel" that there can be no submission. Tell me something: suppose you were left alive after Muslims murdered everyone in your family. Would YOU say "no more killing" or would you look to take revenge? I think it would be revenge, since you already said that was something you were after. So why do you think that Muslims will be any different?

You say "no negotiation will work"? Well, exactly who is speaking about negotiation with terrorists? Not me. You won't find one single word in this thread about doing anything except killing terrorists. So in effect, you've completely misunderstood what I've said.

I guess that after powderman, I should have expected that. Do either of you actually read?

nabob · « **Reply #91 on:** December 10, 2006, 02:44:20 AM »

I agree.

And I'd like to point out that people are judged on what they DO, not what they THINK. We don't know what they think. We are guessing. Wanting to punish people because of an assumption about what they think is not what we are supposed to be about in this country.

Unless, of course, one is a follower of Joe McCarthy. But even Tail Gunner Joe didn't advocate KILLING people for what they think.

The same sort of reasoning, that they are all guilty because of who they are and not what they do, was used to exterminate Jews. Interesting to see such support for it from supposed Christians.

powderman · « **Reply #92 on:** December 10, 2006, 04:17:24 AM »

nabob. I'm positive yoyu voted for gore and kerry now. Not sure where to start here. To begin with president Bush didn't start this war, a group of Godless, subhuman, YES, THEY WERE, rabid dogs did on 9=11-01. The Godless ones murdered 3,000 Americans. The peaceful, good, Godless ones all around the world, danced in the streets and partied, praising allah for murdering innocents. I'd of loved to see a couple dozen daisy cutters dropped right in their midst. This war had been building for years, the dumcraps did nothing to stop it. Iraq openly supported the terrorists with money, training camps, weapons, etc, they were in it up to their eyeballs, so don't blame Bush, put the blame where it truly belongs. When we first went in to afghanistan captured Godless ones said they didn't expect a war. They judged us by billy bob klintoon. They were wrong. Now that the dumcraps hold a majority the Godless ones are again celebrating because they know that they will be able to murder at will without any retaliation. Islam is the enemy, always has been, always will be. POWDERMAN.

nabob · « **Reply #93 on:** December 10, 2006, 05:29:06 AM »

Bush sure started the war in Iraq. If you recall, the 9/11 commission put to rest the idea that Al Qaeda (you remember them, don't you? They were the ones that actually ran the airplanes into the Twin Towers) had anything to do with Saddam Hussein. The official government study commission set up to investigate 9/11 said Hussein had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

Iraq had nothing to do with the terrorists that hit us on 9/11. Yet you say they were in it up to their eyeballs. Well, don't let little things like facts stand in the way of a good hate, especially when the end result will be justifying genocide.

Here, this might make things a bit clearer for you:

From the Washington Post, June 17, 2004

Quote

The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration's main justifications for the war in Iraq.

Along with the contention that Saddam Hussein was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other top administration officials have often asserted that there were extensive ties between Hussein's government and Osama bin Laden's terrorist network; earlier this year, Cheney said evidence of a link was "overwhelming."

But the report of the commission's staff, based on its access to all relevant classified information, said that there had been contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda but no cooperation. In yesterday's hearing of the panel, formally known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, a senior FBI official and a senior CIA analyst concurred with the finding.

The staff report said that bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq" while in Sudan through 1996, but that "Iraq apparently never responded" to a bin Laden request for help in 1994. The commission cited reports of contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda after bin Laden went to Afghanistan in 1996, adding, "but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship. Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."

The finding challenges a belief held by large numbers of Americans about al Qaeda's ties to Hussein. According to a Harris poll in late April, a plurality of Americans, 49 percent to 36 percent, believe "clear evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda has been found."

Guess you are STILL one of those clinging to the belief that Saddam and Al Qaeda were cooperating even when your own government has admitted that this is in error.

But don't let that stop you from hating enough to want to commit genocide. Facts shouldn't stand in the way of mass murder.

And what any of this has to do with whomever I voted for is murky to me. I vote Libertarian. However, that has nothing to do with the fact that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. The fact that you cling to this despite the admission by your own government to the contrary tells me you are looking to justify genocide any way you can, even to the point of fabricating reasons, such as you are doing here.

Afghanistan had a definite link to 9/11. Iraq did not. In any war, I sort of have to insist that we attack those that are attacking us. That wasn't Saddam. By that reasoning, we should attack Canada the next time Al Qaeda strikes. They've got beer, hockey and better food than Iraq. And their involvement in 9/11 is the same as Iraq's.

jimster · « **Reply #94 on:** December 10, 2006, 06:52:14 AM »

Far as I'm concerned, The UN caused a lot of this, including the problems with Iraq, and many other places, by doing nothing but threatening them for years with no intention of backing up their worthless resolutions. They were all talk back when Iraq gassed thousands of people. I blame the corrupt UN for taking bribes while letting murderous thugs be armed also. As a matter of fact, the first time Iraq fired missles at our planes in the no fly zone was reason enough to go there in my opinion. The fact they has scud missles which were outlawed by the weak corrupt UN was reason enough for someone to kick butt there....and just the fact someone had to step in where the UN could not or would not...was reason eough in my opinion also. It was also reported on national news Iraq had training camps for terrorists there too...and if I remember correctly...our country said if you harbor terrorists, you are the problem. The only thing I regret now is we did not use total overwheliing force and just level everything....cause there's no sense in going to war unless you do this at least.
As far as a link to 9/11...a direct one...who cares, they harbored terrorists...and even when they find a link, it will be like finding WMD...not enough to count in some people's eyes....
Well...one scud was enough for me pal.

I think the UN is worthless and corrupt and should also be cleaned up, they caused a certain amoutnt of this from being weak and corrupt for many years.

nabob · « **Reply #95 on:** December 10, 2006, 08:39:57 AM »

No disagreement on the UN. Weak, corrupt, mostly useless.

There haven't been any WMD's found in Iraq either, but that doesn't have anything to do with 9/11. There was no link between 9/11 and Iraq. Powderman asserts that there was and that this justifies war. Well, he has been shown definitively to be wrong.

One scud is enough for you? We have spent an estimated 350 BILLION dollars, we've lost over 2000 American soldiers lives and as long as it removes one scud that can barely reach 100 miles, that's good enough for you?

Not for me. I require a threat to the US before sending Americans out to die. I'm surprised others don't. Iraq was not involved in 9/11 and did not have any weapons that could harm the US. None of this, of course, has anything to do with supporting killing 1 billion people because of revenge or hate. I've been raised to only punish those that do wrong and only in proportion to the wrong they do. People on this thread are for killing 1 billion people because, hey, you know how "they" are.

1939 and Germany springs to mind.

Heck, Manzanar springs to mind.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #96 on:** December 10, 2006, 04:26:00 PM »

Maybe you should go negotiate with these filthy vermin. See where it gets you Nabob?

I'm sure you know where it will end. They are primitive thinking animals and will only negotiate if they think it will give them an advantage. The ONLY way to train these primitives is by making them beg for unconditional surrender.

If you think I am willing to commit the lives of our troops is for revenge only. Then why are my children serving? They have been instilled in life with a sence of dutyfor their country. I wish a few more adults would have my kids sence of duty.

I would imagine the MUSLIM terrorists killing over 4000 americans on 9/11 wasn't a "threat" to america? Come on! I would imagine you feel really bad about all the civilians we killed in WW2 when we bombed the German cities and when we nuked hiroshima and Nagasaki. The will of the muslims must be broken and we must show them total defeat or anihilation. It is too bad so many people think these animals think rationally like most of the world but the truth is they don't.

A coward dies many deaths, a brave msn only once.

nabob · « **Reply #97 on:** December 10, 2006, 11:04:08 PM »

Umm, actually, we are presently negotiating with Muslim nations, Billy. Maybe you haven't heard but we maintain good relations with Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc. We are seeking to use diplomatic relations in Yemen and Sudan and Indonesia to have them go after radicals in their own nations. Seems like we are negotiating with Muslims right now and making progress on the war against radical Islam. Why is it that you don't want to continue what is working?

No, I don't think you are working off of revenge only. Hate is also in there as a large component.

Quote

I would imagine the MUSLIM terrorists killing over 4000 americans on 9/11 wasn't a "threat" to america?

Sure it was. That's why we are pursuing terrorists. However, I have to insist that we pursue the people who actually DID the deed, and the people that directly help them, NOT all Muslims. There are over 1 billion Muslims out there. You are suggesting that they are all guilty if one group of them is guilty. By that reasoning, all US soldiers are guilty because the ones that raped and killed that family in Hamadi were guilty. Sure you want your children to be considered just as guilty as those soldiers? That's the reasoning you are using.

There is no annihilation of a people. It doesn't happen. It is physically impossible to do so for a group that stretches from Morocco to Indonesia. Yet people like you, who pray at the altar of simple solutions, believe that it can be done. All you do when you try is to create more terrorists.

Quote

A coward dies many deaths, a brave msn only once.

A fool dies when he doesn't have to and a hate-filled man finds excuses to justify genocide.

powderman · « **Reply #98 on:** December 11, 2006, 04:09:59 AM »

BILLY. Good post, I agree Sir. If nabob were president, he'd still be appologizing to the Godless ones for building the twin towers in the way of their stolen planes. POWDERMAN.

nabob · « **Reply #99 on:** December 11, 2006, 04:30:42 AM »

And if Powderman had his way, many more American lives would be lost in another needless war. For some reason, he doesn't seem to care who dies as long as he gets his anger worked out.

WylieKy · « **Reply #100 on:** December 11, 2006, 07:54:24 AM »

nabob,
I'm kind of with you. I think we should use the minimum amount of force to get the job done. Proactive genocide is a little above my pay grade (and that of any man IMHO.) I go into neighborhoods on business occasionally where there are 'bangers on every corner, and I can tell by their ink many are murders. I know if given half a chance and shown any weakness, they would kill me for a thrill, a rep, and a penny in my pocket. That knowledge does not give me the right to go in with barrels blazing, just because I know they would kill me if given the chance. I would go to the chair for such an action, but do not confuse my not killing them now with my being afraid to protect myself if the need arises. Same situation here. Nuke 'em till they glow and shoot 'em in the dark may one day be necessary, but that day has not yet arrived. If all negotiations fail and a massive war breaks out, and we are on the brink, I would push the button my self. However, to do so in cold blood with nothing but a vague threat on the horizon to justify killing millions is inexcusable. These people are God's children, and will remain so until death, for so long as the spark of life remains there is a chance of redemption, and that is not mine to take from one man without specific cause, much less an entire people.

"Luke 15 1-7
The Parable of the Lost Sheep
1 Now the tax collectors and "sinners" were all gathering around to hear him. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."

3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 "Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. 6 Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.' 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

I think we should offer one hand in peace, and hold a sledge hammer in the other. The "people" will probably not understand the hand held out in peace at first, but they are intimately familiar with the sledge hammer. It may take a while, but they will eventually get the idea. "When one of ours attacks them, they respond with a vengeance" As far as what Israel does to terrorist families now, it is half-@$$ed. They give the families warning and spare the mosques. While individual life has no meaning to the terrorists, the life of their families and religion have infinite value. We need to start using the right currency.

WylieKy

victorcharlie · « **Reply #101 on:** December 11, 2006, 11:27:35 AM »

Very well put WylieKy...........

I also tend to agree that violence always gets violence in return.

The real question is what should the new policy be?

Honestly, the wishy washey debate is doing the same thing it did in the sixties and early seventies, and that's putting more resolve in our enemy.

I had hoped we had learned better, but I can't say I'm suprised........

I still say lets carve it up and give a piece of it to each of the major ethnic groups and follow along historical boundries. Stay long enough in each new country to set up a government and then reduce our force to the advisory level. At the same time tell every other power in the region, that if we sense they are interfering then will do the same with them.

nabob · « **Reply #102 on:** December 11, 2006, 12:10:00 PM »

Quote

Nuke 'em till they glow and shoot 'em in the dark may one day be necessary, but that day has not yet arrived. If all negotiations fail and a massive war breaks out, and we are on the brink, I would push the button my self.

Me too. May that day never come, but me too.

Quote

These people are God's children, and will remain so until death, for so long as the spark of life remains there is a chance of redemption, and that is not mine to take from one man without specific cause, much less an entire people.

Thank God someone understands what I'm trying to say. Thank you!!

The parable sums it up very succinctly. I appreciate the reminder.

victorcharlie: three 'stans sounds good to me.

I told myself I'd keep posting until someone understood what I was trying to say. Two is a bonus. I'm done.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #103 on:** December 11, 2006, 01:49:17 PM »

As said in Shotgun NEWS! Volume 60 issue 8. Road trip seeking Serbian Snipers. By David M. Fortier The author was "curious to see what the attitude of the average Serb was going to be towards the Americans". Despite the recent bombing He found them friendly, with just a few comments along the lines of, "perhaps 9/11 has finally changed America's attitude toward the muslims."

I know it changed mine!

Kill em all.

powderman · « **Reply #104 on:** December 11, 2006, 02:39:05 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on December 11, 2006, 01:49:17 PM

As said in Shotgun NEWS! Volume 60 issue 8. Road trip seeking Serbian Snipers. By David M. Fortier The author was "curious to see what the attitude of the average Serb was going to be towards the Americans". Despite the recent bombing He found them friendly, with just a few comments along the lines of, "perhaps 9/11 has finally changed America's attitude toward the muslims."

I know it changed mine!

Kill em all.

BILLY. Yep, changed mine too. We should have nuked mecca, the home base of the rabid dogs. POWDERMAN.

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #105 on:** January 09, 2007, 06:31:40 PM »

I havent been online for awhile to read this thread. I just read it from where I left off.

Sourdough, THANK YOU for 2 on the tarmac!! BRASS baby, BRASS!! I had several good friends in Lebanon. Sounds like you "get it". So many dont.

The examples of some of the crusades are common misinformation. Sure, some are close to true but the largest parts of the Mid-East crusades were initiated by Islamist attacks. Appoligist history. The most simple fact is that Christians were there first. Who "drove" them away? Who built Mosques ON Cathedrals? How do you explain the Moor's in Spain? Who are they? Where did they come from? How was Islam spread accross North Africa? How do you explain the incursions of Islamists into Southern Britain? Southern Europe? . They did it forcibly by the sword. It was no peacefull prayer circle. I've studied history too. To lump Islam and Christianity together is part of the problem we are having now with many in this country. "We're no different", or, "we're no better" will lead to death. Its that simple.

What did Hitler have to do with Pearl Harbor? C'mon, what?? NOTHING! But what did we do to him? Why? He didnt have anything to do with it!! If the Left today was around then, the East Coast may be speaking German today. Saddam was a terrorist enabler!! Simple as that. He directly supported Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, they have killed Americans in homicide bombings in Isreal, he provided support to Hamas, they too have killed Americans. Even though Hezbolla is funded, created, and armed by Iran, Saddam has been linked to them thru mutual support of the PLO. Saddam had ties to Al Qeda, as much as many would like to deny it. Those camps were there! Those people were there! Facts....

A "needless" war? How's that? If we werent drawing them in and killing them there, where would we be fighting them? What would they have been doing? WHERE would they have been doing it? We have used thier "Jihad" against them! We have drawn them into the fight THERE. If we cut & run, what do you think will happen? If we leave now, do you really think that will be the end of it? Do you think they will say "Okay, we're not gonna play with you any more". It doesnt work like that!

I listened to Ted Kennedy today. Disgusting!! Why are these people willing to accept defeat for political gain? If we "redeploy" (cut & run) without finishing the job, that young Marine I originally wrote about's life will have been WASTED!! The professional military we have today will once again go thru the demoralization it did after "Nam. Will the left accept the blame for the slaughter this time? NO! They didnt after Viet Nam, they wont this time either.

The Bushido code of Imperial Japan was based on the Shinto religion. We took the fight out of them BEFORE we won thier "hearts and minds". We were fortunate it only took a few years. This will take longer but it has to be done.

I have a suggestion, why doesnt the cut & run crowd go to the tribal areas of Pakistan, cozy up to some Al Qeda fellas and let 'em know just what great friends we can be after we talk it over. Since they want to kill us all, maybe they can ask 'em how many of us they'll kill to accept a compromise. That is if they can "keep thier heads" thru the negotiations.......

magooch · « **Reply #106 on:** January 10, 2007, 03:33:02 AM »

Right on, Echo. I'm afraid though that Iraq has simply gone on too long and the American people have moved on. They just want it over with and no amount of logic, or possible consequences are going to make any difference.

It seems that our leaders will never learn that our attention span is very limited and if you're going to do a war, you've got to do it quick. Frankly, I'm very surprised that we've lasted this long. When it first got started, I gave it about six months before we would lose interest and demand that it be finished.

powderman · « **Reply #107 on:** January 10, 2007, 10:44:01 AM »

ECHOLIMA. I agree Sir. For the committee I nominate nabob to lead them, he and the Godless ones could have a wonderful dialogue. POWDERMAN.

Sourdough · « **Reply #108 on:** January 10, 2007, 11:11:29 AM »

NABOB: You keep saying we are nagotiating with islamic countries, wrong we are nagotiating with the rich rulers of certain areas. They are only dealing with us to make themselves richer. Look at Saudi, there we deal with the ruling family. 90% of the Saudi populious hate us. A large majority are WASABI, they are the most radical of the islamic groups. Look at Kuwait, there again we are dealing with the royal family, and they are dealing with us to get richer themselves. Look at Jordan, the current ruler is dealing with us well, yet his populous are not pro americian. Zer-Quai the top killer in Iraq that we finally got after he performed many beheadings was a common Jordanian. Lebanon, they have a large christian population, that has learned how to keep a low profile. Hezbula has a large pressence there. Morraco, we don't have a lot of dealings with this country, yet they supply a lot of the terrioist. Turkey, the only Islamic country we deal with on good terms is really not all that smooth. Libia, Tunesia, Ethiopia we vertually have no dealings with. I recommend you go there to one of those countries for a while, try your way and see how long you last. You will either come back with a differant attitude, or in a box.

I know all about the KIAs. The 172d just returned from an extended deployment. They lost many troops during the time they were there. Each time my wife came home crying, she had met everyone of those soldiers. She could place a face and personality with each name. She then had to deal with the wives and family, it has been hard on her. I hate to say this, but she reminds me if Cindy Sheehan now, her attitudes have changed so much. I see widows daily, many decided to stay here so their kids can finish school with friends that know what they are going through. At least here they have a community that is understanding and supportive.

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #109 on:** February 27, 2007, 07:26:32 AM »

ironglow · « **Reply #110 on:** February 27, 2007, 02:01:46 PM »

  Guess I have to add a few points here..
  I haven't read every single one of the posts in this thread..just caught sight of it tonight !

  Echo4Lima posted the original that started all this ...And he was 100% on the right track.

   As Grandpa of a Spec ops Marine, I try to visit him and his friends in the Corps as often as I can . The media presents a few military malcontents that they dig up somewhere ( probably rear eschelon)..but they don't give the real picture.

   Talking with my Grandson I find that they want to WIN that conflict and stabalize the region so the Iraqi forces can take over.

   NONE of the Marines I talked to, or their families, want to cut-and-run...and they are not afraid to take the fight to the enemy !
  Thgeir greatest apprehension is that the politicians back home will want to pull the rug out from under them..by defunding the war effort.

  It is difficult to fight a war with empty guns, empty stomachs and on the empty words of a few Washington blowhards !

   We lost credibility in Vietnam, gained it back in Grenada, Panama, and Desert Storm..lost it again when we did nothing about the bombing of the WTC the first time, the bombing of some embassies, the bombing of the USS Cole etc..

We won some credibility back with Desert Storm and by kicking butt in Afghanistan and deposing Saddam and his murdering crowd.....

   But now the same old cut-and-run gang wants to shame our troops again.

  GB..You said that you thought that our troops were not "taking the fight to" the enemy..correction. I talked not only to my Grandson but also many of his fellow Spec Ops Marines: believe me, they took the fight to the Al Queda operatives in Al Anbar province...that was their mission. kill the Al Queda before they could get to Baghdad..and they did !

   He just got home on pre-deployment leave today..then he's on his way back to Al Anbar again.

Before any of you guys suggest the "turn tail" counsel, consider where we are ! From just south of Baghdad ( around Babil, near ancient Babylon), all the way to the gulf at Basra, it ids now pacified enough that the Brits are taking troops from there to kill more Taliban in Afghanistan.
  From somewhat north of Baghdad up through the Kurdish area, they are going great guns..capitolism is flourishing , Haven't you seen the TV ad campaign by the Kurdish people..THANKING the US for THEIR LIBERTY..I don't know about you, but that means something to me !

  The remaining problems are in the environs of Baghdad (Sunni vs Shiite)and along the Euphrates in Al Anbar ( Al Queda killers).

   So here we are..the north pacified and doing great, the south pacified and soon controllable by Iraqi forces..

  We have some unrest in Baghdad and along the Euphrates The Army ( 3rd Div, 101st, ist Div etc) can pacify Baghdad soon and the Marines will continue killing/capturing the terrorist units trying to get to Baghdad..

  ..And in the face of this ..some , even here want to cut-and-run... SHAME !!

  Right now, what they need to do is to tell those idiots like the leaders in Iraq that we will call down the "thunder" of our God if they don't cease & desist..
  Then, if they don't..melt that big black rock in Mecca...But I don't expect there are enough with such guts in Washington..either side of the aisle...

   Meanwhile..lend an ear to Echo4lima..he seems to know the "skinny"..

toysoldier · « **Reply #111 on:** February 27, 2007, 02:42:36 PM »

The best little book to read is "The True Believer", written by Eric Hoffer in the early 50's. It's still in print. He has remarkable insight into what makes fanatics tick.

An Indian surgeon I worked with liked to tell stories about how India beat Pakistan in their wars. One insight he offered was that Muslims don't want to die in fire, as it keeps them from going to Paradise. Maybe we should have been digging Osama and the Taliban out of the Tora Bora caves with napalm and flame throwers. It worked on Iwo Jima.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #112 on:** February 27, 2007, 03:00:22 PM »

If we did as Powderman, others and I have said.How would it "waste" ( I for one do not think our soldiers lives are being wasted) more lives than the muslimes taking over more and more territory and murdering billions that refuse to convert? I am talking an air campaighn with nukes and conventional munitions to eliminate all the muslimes water treatment, food storage, industrie and cities. We have to force them by overwhelming force to submit completly. These primitive backwards animals only understand one thing, force. Nothing else.

It would be nice if we all could live together in peace, but there is a disease on this earth. Its called Islam. Its hard to negotiate with some who only wants you dead.

ironglow · « **Reply #113 on:** February 28, 2007, 11:49:48 AM »

Can't much argue with you Billy...

doc_kreipke · « **Reply #114 on:** March 01, 2007, 04:15:32 PM »

Quote

The best little book to read is "The True Believer", written by Eric Hoffer in the early 50's. It's still in print. He has remarkable insight into what makes fanatics tick.

I'm glad to see that someone else has read Hoffer's little tome. He wrote it about Communism and the back then recently defunct Nazi-ism, but it's interesting to see how closely it applies to radical Islam today.

I think that one of Hoffer's most poignant observations is that is possible to judge a mass movement by its fanatical minority. The fanatics, who loathe everything, including themselves, are willing to bring about complete destruction of everything, including themselves, to accomplish their ends.

Thus the excuse, "only a minority of Muslims are terrorists," just doesn't wash with me. Says Hoffer, "the character and destiny of a group are often determined by its inferior elements." In other major religions, moderates are in control. With Islam, the fanatics are in control.

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #115 on:** March 06, 2007, 11:34:36 AM »

Doc,

Hoffers statement "...the character and destiny of a group...." could the be applied to todays Democrats?

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #116 on:** March 23, 2007, 05:41:30 AM »

alsaqr · « **Reply #117 on:** March 23, 2007, 09:24:30 AM »

Worked in the middle east for many years. Saudi Arabia has the most confrontational, corrupt and radical form of Islam in the world today. It is called Wahabbism after it's founder Mohammed Abdel Wahabb. These are the folks who believe that all non Muslims must be converted, forcibly if necessary, or murdered. Saudi is the most crazy place in the world. The Mutawa, religious police, are everywhere sticking their illiterate noses into everything.

Islamic law is a total joke. As used in Saudi and Sudan it is designed to keep the current corrupt regimes in power ans to suppress females. The son of the deceased Saudi king, Fahd, murdered a senior policeman when i was working there. Yes, he got away with murder.

Millions of folks are held in virtual slavery in Saudi. Most of them are Pakistanis, Indians, Sri Lankans and Indonesians. The employer keeps the passport of the employee and refuses to pay them. Saudi is so crazy that an exit visa is needed for the body of a person who dies there.

If you do not remember anything else about 9/11, remember this: 15 of the 19 suicide hi-jackers were Saudi. It is from Saudi that lobotomized radical Islam sprung. For the life of me i cannot understand why our current administration and the two before it are/were in bed with the Saudis.

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #118 on:** March 30, 2007, 06:59:23 AM »

alsaqr, your right about the Wahhabi. To many people, including "some" on this sight, don't understand that it is a threat to us. These Wahhabi's and the schools that are influenced by them are a major danger.

Some say "its only a few that are terrorists" as apologists for those terrorists. Truth is that the rest that aren't DO NOT CONDEMN TERRORISM!! They quietly SUPPORT and SYMPATHIZE with them.