T/C Hawken fouling problems - help needed!

[Karl B. Andersen]

OK. I finally got my Winchester 777 209s and Hodgdon FFG 777 powder.
This combo in my NEF in-line .50 with Power Belt 295s puts bullets in the same hole and I can shoot repeatedly with no fouling and no cleaning necessary!
In my T/C .50 Hawken and Buffalo Conicals, I get only 1 or maybe 2 shots, and then the barrel is SO FOULED I can't seat the 2nd or 3rd shot.
What's up?
Is it the lube on the conicals?
Lead fouling?
I mean, I end up a good inch short of being able to seat the bullet on the powder after only one shot!
I can do a FAILED loading attempt, pull the bullet back out and there's all kinds of crud built up on the base of the un-fired bullet that it scraped off the barrel as I loaded it.
What is causing this fouling?
It's bad!
Should I use another bullet? Which one?
I like the primer and powder combination, since it seems to work so well in my in-line, and would like to keep things simple and use the same ppwder and primer combination in my side-lock.
I have the 209 adapter for the T/C, so I'd like to keep the same components.
Can somebody tell me what is causing the fouling?
And give me a solution?

[lonewolf5348]

would say sounds more like a crud ring using the 209 primers and the triple 777 powders.
I read a lot of fuys seem to run into this problem and an easy fix was to switch 209 primers to another brand that are not so hot or go back to a number 11 cap/

[Biff Mayhem]

The lube Buffalo uses is real tacky and counteracts with 777 powder - making fouling sticky inside. I've dealt with this myself using around 100 grains.  Using 70-80 doesn't seem to be a problem.  Make sure you are swabbing with a bore brush after every 2nd shot. Use large 2-1/2 or 3" patches - perhaps switch to a slightly cleaner 777 FFF.

All this should control the problem.

[Karl B. Andersen]

The lube Buffalo uses is real tacky and counteracts with 777 powder - making fouling sticky inside. I've dealt with this myself using around 100 grains.  Using 70-80 doesn't seem to be a problem.  Make sure you are swabbing with a bore brush after every 2nd shot. Use large 2-1/2 or 3" patches - perhaps switch to a slightly cleaner 777 FFF.

All this should control the problem.

I was only using 75 g. of the T7.
How about if I just remove the lube from the bullets? What good does it do anyway?
I'm not sure what you are saying to use the Patches for!
And, I'm not quite sure what you mean to "Swab with a bore brush"?
Are there any non-lubed bullets that shoot well with this barrel and twist rate?

[Idaho Ron]

I did a LOT of testing with the 777 pistol powder. I found that in a Green Mountain fast twist barrel the 777 was causing a LOT of problems with lead in the barrel. I backed off from 100 gr to 70. I got about the same thing. I tried a wad between the 777 and the bullet and I got bullets that key holed.
 I used my Ohler Chrono graph to see what the speed was. 70 gr was 1400 fps with a 410 gr Hornady Great plains. I had a lot of trouble, the same as you. I went to pyrodex select RS and the 410 Hornady. I can shoot at least 8 times before I need to run a brush down it. I am getting 1490 out of the Pyrodex select. My gun is sighted in out to 250 yards and the bullets are stable all the way out.
 I don't like 777 because of the "crud ring" but that is just my opinion.  Check other sites the crud ring is a real problem with a lot of guns.
 Ron

[Idaho Ron]

The lube keeps the fouling soft you need it. Have you seen that the nipple is hard to get out? With 777 I was having a real hard time getting the nipple out and the cleanout hole on my GM.   Ron

[Karl B. Andersen]

There is no nipple! I have the 209 conversion and am using the Winchester 777 209 primers which are designed for Blackpowder use ONLY to eliminate the crud ring. They were designed to be used with Hodgdon 777 powder.
There doesn't seem to be any lead fouling, but black residue on the bottoms of the bullets I pulled that I couldn't seem to seat.
I think I may go back to try some regular Pyrodex with the new primers instead of the Hodgdon 777.

[Slamfire]

You could try real black powder. It ignites a lot easier than any of the substitutes, so you don't need hot primers. It is real easy to get Goex, Swiss or Wano over the internet, and costs less than any of those "other" powders. The only real drawback is the hazmat fee, but spread that over 10 lbs of powder, and it don't hurt none. Your total bill will be less'n 150 bucks, and Graf&Son'll pay the shipping. Another cure is to try a bullet lubed with Bore Butter. I've only got one rifle that shoots Ballets as good as PRBs, and they are the best killers anyway. 

[Landngroove]

Scrap the 777 and try real black powder. No need for 209 primers either. Real black powder ignites very well with # 11 percussion caps. I shoot PRBs in my T/C Hawken, good results, and no fouling problems. Goex, # 11's, .018" pillow ticking patch, .530" roundball, (it is a .54 caliber) Hoppes # 9 Plus Lube. Also occasionaly shoot T/C Maxi-Balls, lubed with NL-1000, again, no fouling problems. IMHO a T/C Hawken is made to shoot real BP, use percussion caps, and shoot a round ball, or conical. Once you try the real thing, you will be pleasantly surprised !

[Smokepole cowboy]

I agree with getting rid of the T7.  I use only Goex Pinnace or Goex black powder and have none of the problems that I used to have.  I couldn't load a second shot when using the T7.

[roundball]

And give me a solution?

Use Goex and #11 caps like the rifle was designed for...I shoot a 50 shot range session on Saturday mornings using Goex 3F and NL1000 lube or Hoppes No9 PLUS BP lube without ever wiping between shots...

[crow_feather]

Wow! imagine that!  using black powder and regular cap to shoot a ball out of a side lock rifle.  What are they gonna do next.