Author Topic: .338 or .300 for Moose and Elk (Read 4595 times)

jasonprox700 · « **on:** November 27, 2006, 09:54:54 AM »

I will probably be going on a moose hunt to northern Alberta next year. I need a new gun and am undecided in which caliber I should go with. The gun will also double as an elk and mule deer rifle when I go to Colorado in two years. I have had a few suggestions but am undecided in which would be a better. I am also going to reload for whatever I get, so the ammo price isn't quite as important. Here are my choices; .300 Win. Mag, .300 Ultra Mag, .338 Win. Mag, and .338 Ultra Mag. I am not really familiar with the .338's ballistics. Any suggestions and info would help.

butterman · « **Reply #1 on:** November 27, 2006, 12:06:21 PM »

A 30-06 will do all , has done all for years . A 180 gr. Barnes 3XBT for the moose and Partitions for eveything else . Unless you just have to have that 338 win.mag.

I have both I'm happy

butterman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 27, 2006, 12:08:34 PM »

A 30-06 will do all , has done all for years . A 180 gr. Barnes 3XBT for the moose and Partitions for eveything else . Unless you just have to have that 338 win.mag.

I have both I'm happy

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #3 on:** November 27, 2006, 12:19:11 PM »

As has been said already, a premium 180 bullet from a 30-06 will do the job nicely. Put the bullet in the boiler room and bullwinkle dies. I would rather see someone shoot a moose with 30-06 than some mega-death ray magnum that causes the shooter to flinch so bad that the round goes high and wounds, rather than kills. Moose are not hard to kill at all but they are big critters and so distance is a big issue. Remember, natives in Canada shoot moose all the time with an array of "deadly long range calibers", like the little 243, the old 303 and yes, some have even fallen to .22 rimfires.

Now having said that, from the choices you stated, I would go with a 300 Win Mag. It makes a great long range mule deer and elk rifle as well for that Colorado trip you mentioned. Enjoy the hunt!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 27, 2006, 12:56:45 PM »

If for no other reason but just to have a 338 Win Mag, I would just get the 338 Win Mag. The 338 an be loaded with 185 gr. bullets up to 250 gr. You can load it down to 30-06 levels and still be able to load it up for big stuff. JMHO.

BUSTER51 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 27, 2006, 01:27:04 PM »

Last I heard the 33 cal was the perfect rouund for Elk and Moose ,so a 338 win mag or .338 rum or 340 weathrby would be just right . I believe it was Elmer Keith that thought the 33 was the best thing since sliced bread on elk ,any way it has always worked for me .

DennisB · « **Reply #6 on:** November 27, 2006, 02:37:53 PM »

I've used the .338 with handloaded 250 gr Partitions on moose and cariboo with dead-in-their-tracks results. The last thing you want is a moose spending its last few minutes on earth trying to swim a small lake.

That said, a well placed 180 grain Partition out of an '06 or WM will indeed do the trick, and if recoil is a problem, go with the 30-06. On the other hand, the 338 is easy to load for. My old M77RS put the 250 Partitions and Barnes 300 grainers to the same poi with IMR 4350, while anything less than 250 grains was all over the target.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 27, 2006, 08:36:23 PM »

I would go with the 300 win mag. Unless your serious about big bears the 338 holds no practicle advantage over the 300 win mag. The 300 win is easy to find just about everywhere and in loads from 150-200gr to cover your deer/elk/moose needs. I used to have a 338 win but sold it because it didn't do anything the 300 wouldn't do equally as well. A 210-225gr bullet load out of the 338 compared to a 180-200gr load out of a 300 are completely equal on elk/moose. The 250gr load gives a small advantage on big bears but a 220gr partition or 250gr barnes is right on its heals.

When mule deer come into the picture the 150-168gr bullets really shine when long range work is in the picture. 165gr TSX at 3100fps when sighted 3" high at 100 yards only drops 11" out to 400 yards and is plenty of bullet for deer or elk.

The 338 RUM is a whole different ball of wax than the 338 Win. YOu tack on 300-400 fps of aditional velosity and you get one hell of a flat shooting hammer on game. The RUM hits as hard at 200 yards as the 338 win does at the muzzle. I shot a 225gr accubond at 3140fps, and 250gr partiton gold @ 3050fps, out of my RUM and for a dedicated long range rifle for big moose/bear it is hard to beat. Its expensive to shoot, and has considerablly more recoil than the 300 win though.

I have had, reloaded, and shot all of the above mentioned calibers except the 300 RUM and from my experience the 300 win is your most practicle choice. Its the choice I made when I had to condense my rifle battery. The 300 win will handle all the game mentioned exceeding ly well and has been for the last 43 years. There is a reason why it is one of the more popular western cartridges, it just plain works. On game up to moose it works as well as its corresponding loads in the 338. It shoots flatter with lighter bullet for deer and elk, and in a pinch handle any brown bear that walks. The only places were the 338 holds an advantage you would be better off with a 375 H&H. Another bonus with the 300 win mag is factory ammo, even though you will be reloading it is nice to know that you could pick up a box off the shelf if need be that would be similar to your reloads. Federal offers 13 different loads for the 300 win from 150gr-200gr with some very good bullets in that lineup. These are readily available most places and could come in handy in a "lost ammo" situation.

jro45 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2006, 03:09:36 AM »

I own and shoot the 338 RUM. Right now I'm getting it ready for an Africa hunt. I'll tell you what it can do with the 225 bullet partition 3138 fps or I can down load it to around 2900 fps. Either load that bullet has alot of FT LBs. Well you get what you want to get but myself I like the 338 RUM.

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2006, 05:01:59 AM »

I am not concerned with a .30-06. My deer rifle that I use for Muleys and Whitetails is a .280 that is loaded pretty hot. That gun kicks more than my dad's 7 Mag, so recoil isn't a huge concern. So far, after reading some of the replies, the .300 Win. Mag. will probably be my first choice. It will still do all, and it will be a little cheaper to reload for. Is there any advantage going from a .300 Win. Mag to the .300 RUM. like flatter trajectory, more energy? Just curious. I see the brass is about another 1/3 as much for the RUM.

corbanzo · « **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2006, 06:38:24 AM »

Ballistically speaking, the 300RUM is easily superior to the 300Win mag. Moose and elk hunting speaking, you arent going to gain a lot from one over the other. There is a lot more ammo availability for the 300 win mag, and it is less expensive.

The only reason you would need to step it up to the 300RUM is if you are planning on very long range hunting, which you really dont need for moose or elk.

nasem · « **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2006, 12:19:17 PM »

if your going to shoot at distances from 0 to 300 yards, anything mentioned above will do and so will a 270, 280, 308, etc, etc, etc....

However, if your planning on "maybe" having to do a 400 or 500 yard shot (that is somewhat the norm for alot of elk / moose hunts), you might want to get a caliber that is powerfull enough to handle them at 500 yards and gives you alot of time to practice the hell out of your skills without developing arthritus (I think thats how you spell it) from the heavy recoiling magnums. If 400-500 is your range, Don't get a magnum, practicing 500 yard shots with a magnum for the next year is going to be:
a) expensive
b) hard recoil for 150+ rounds a month

So, its all about what YOU want to do. Any caliber from 308 ALLLLLL the way to 458s will handle them, its all about how much your willing to practice and sharpen your long range skills.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 29, 2006, 11:41:11 AM »

A properly outfitted 300 or even 338 isn't really that bad with recoil. My 338 Rum was a pussycat with the muzzle break. A 8 1/2 or 9lb rifle with a good muzle break and a good rest thats high enough to keep your body in good position while shooting and you can do a lot of practice shooting without hurting yourself. You could also practice with slightly downloaded ammo to save on powder and recoil. As long as you have quality practice you don't need to shoot thousands of rounds to stay sharp. Try practiceing more with rimfire or 223, it helps keep you sharp, without breaking your bank.

I noticed in the new Free hunters NRA magazine this month that Ross Seyfried also concluded that the 300 win mag was "the perfect cartridge" for many of the above mentioned reasons.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #13 on:** November 29, 2006, 11:41:12 PM »

Another get an "ought 6" here----not necessarily because of the recoil----but because the standard rifles are much more usable in the field---a lighter--trimmer--handier package-------than all the long tom heavy smoke poles that the magnums are chambered in.

If you need to step up from an .30-06---I'd be more inclined to step up to a .375 and be done with it.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2006, 01:45:22 AM »

I seriously doubt that you could tell a difference just by looking at them from across the room between a 30/06 and a 300 win mag. Generally they have 24" barrels and same action size. The same could be said for the 338 but it usually has a little heavier barrel. Take your run of the mill remington 700 in both calibers and they will look identical.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:29:18 AM »

Looking at the web sites---it appears that Remington and Browning magnums have all gone to 26in barrels.

Carry a std .30-06 all day in the field--then carry your run of mill .300mag the next---and then try to us there is no difference.

nasem · « **Reply #16 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:43:54 AM »

While there diffenetly is a difference in weight between the 30-06 and the 300 win mag, but I doubt its that much noticable... I think its easier to notice the the recoil difference between the 300 win mag and the '06 than thier weight differences when you carry them...

All my 30-06es and 300 mags have 24" barrels, I can carry either one all day long and at the end of the day, they'll make me wish they were 8 lbs lighter. However, taking them to the range is a different story, I can easily pull off 40 rounds with my 30-06 and it woun't bother me or make me feel tired. Now trying to do 40 rounds with same bullet weights on the 300 mag and Im done for the day.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #17 on:** November 30, 2006, 09:47:31 AM »

I have to admit---I'm DONE carrying monsters in the field and have recently darn near overhauled my whole hunting collection.

I now have:-------(weights are from websites/catalogs-as I don't have a scale)

Rifles:
Remington Model 7 7mm-08 6.25lbs----20in barrel
Kimber Montana 7mm-08 5lb 2oz---22in barrel
Tikka T3 stainless .30-06 6lbs 3oz----22.5in barrel

Shotguns:
Benelli M1 20ga 5.5lbs----24in barrel
Beretta Ultralight Deluxe 12ga 5.95lbs----28in barrels

Still considering a .270 of some sort for a little longer range.

nasem · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2006, 10:47:06 AM »

yeh those guns of yours would defenetly make a difference if I was to compare them with my 24" barreled guns. Even though 4" off the barrel might not seem a whole lot, but it totally changes the balance of the gun, makes it more comfortable to carry.

Do you have any muzzle blast from you 20" 7mm-08s ?

crash87 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 02, 2006, 08:08:34 AM »

I've taken big game (not Moose) with both the .300 and .338 Winchesters. I've used a 7mm Rem mag (1) and a .358 STA(3) for Moose. My British Columbia outfitter/guide chose hands downs the .300 Winchester for all his wilderness hunting. Why?, because the 300 had at extended ranges what the 'o6 had at the muzzle (remember also he lives in Grizzly country). I would choose it because of versatiliy. Your a handloader, so load it down to what others consider perfect (though not entirly true) for your cause, the '06. Want more power, load it up, with the bullet of your choice, to its true potential. Want pure boredom, get a good 180 gr bullet and watch things fall at all sane and some not so sane ranges. Some may feel the Big Magnum is to heavy or unwielding for hunting, I don't, but then again that wasn't the question. Your Moose "may" be taken in close, while your elk and deer can be taken at longer ranges. Exactly what the 300 Win is good for. A load I,ve "worked down" to take Wis and Mich Whiteails consists of a 165gr Hornady behind 53gr of IMR 4320, Fed215 primer for 2519 fps. That would be fired in my Winchester M70 Super Grade with 26" barrel, agian versatiliy. Enjoy your hunt, for a new rifle AND Moose. CRASH87

WingMaster · « **Reply #20 on:** December 04, 2006, 08:40:51 AM »

338 Win Mag. I consider it not so much a "Wonder Mag" and "magic killer" but instead I look at it more of a "Heavy 30.06". I don't try any longer or questionable shots with the 338 than I would take with my 270 or a 30.06. But the nice thing about the 338 is you're throwing a 225 or 250 grain bullet downrange. I think that's the advantage of the 338 on a bigger animal.

Yes it's a heavier rifle with more expensive ammo and more recoil and blast - but it's a great round. Actually, I've been beat up more at the range witha 12 guage with slugs than my 338. I actually like shooting it.

But the 30.06 would be fine too...

Golsovia · « **Reply #21 on:** December 04, 2006, 06:56:26 PM »

Well, I'd say get the '06 and be done it, but with a 280 already, that is nearly redundant, so would a 300 be with an '06 though so the 300 is almost not quite enough of a jump. (I'm trying to rationalize your need for another rifle as the 280 makes fine moose medicine anyway!) Anyhow, the 338 is a great round in that it throws those wonderful 250 grain lumps of metal which work so well on big old brute moose. (While the argument to go to the 375 almost makes sense, I would counter that 338s are still sporters while few 375s can be found which are, and those that are are not fun to shoot! The 338 would be kind of a niche rifle- in a niche separate from the 280. Then again, you could just get the 300 Win Mag and have such an all-purpose rifle that you would need no other.

kudzu · « **Reply #22 on:** December 06, 2006, 04:42:33 PM »

My vote has to go 300 RUM. Balisticlly superior to allmost every other round if you are looking at speed and energy, which = flatter and farther. Shot two elk last month with mine at around 425 yrds. Both were pass thrus. One was quar. away and entered behind 2nd or third rib and passed thru upper shoulder and exited the neck. This being a 500+ lb animal, you do the math on penatration.
Second was a shot to the base of the neck. Lights out.
I do not recommend shooting past your abilities, however if your skills allow you to shoot up to 500 yards the 300RUM will still be packing around 2600ft/lbs of energy at that distance. My load is the 200 gr Accubond over 92.5 gr RL25. + - 3200 fps.
Wouldn't be much I would hesitate to hunt with this set-up. IMHO the Accubond is a great bullet for mag. speeds. Good luck , DM

ps- lay off the 500 yard shot and mag. itis thang, just tried to answer the mans ?

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 06, 2006, 05:32:35 PM »

The 338 RUM is even flatter shooting than the 300 RUM. 225gr accubond @ 3150fps is one hell of a long range load but the 180gr 300 win still beats it out for practicality.

jro45 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 07, 2006, 03:03:32 AM »

My 338 RUM shoots the accubond 225gr bullet at 3178 FPS. My 300 rum shoots the180gr scirocco bullet at 3266 FPS. My 300 Win shoots the 180gr bullet at 3060 FPS

dpastordan · « **Reply #25 on:** December 08, 2006, 05:08:18 AM »

The .338 Winchester is getting more and more popular so even factory ammo should be a little more available than 20 years ago. Personally, I would take my .30-06 and premium bullets...selfishly I'd jump up to a .338. Nothing against a .300 but in bear country I'd want a little more bullet (250 gr) than the .300 could muster. Also, with a .210 gr bullet, the .338 shoots really flat. To handle recoil, I'd go with a Browning BAR.

Slamfire · « **Reply #26 on:** December 08, 2006, 06:20:51 PM »

I wouldn't feel undergunned with anything in your battery. I've taken elk with a 6.5-.257, which has the same powder capacity as the 6.5x55. Not monsters, mind you, but bigger'n caribou.

tanoose · « **Reply #27 on:** December 17, 2006, 03:24:01 AM »

Jason if i were given those caliber choices it would be the .338 winchester magnum,the rifle would be the Ruger all weather or i would first want to take a look at the new Ruger M77 Hawkeye rifles i beleive there the M77 with a few improvements. The .338 is not only good for moose and elk but it can handle the big bears and it can be loaded for deer. And ammo and components can be found everywhere.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #28 on:** December 17, 2006, 05:12:47 AM »

I have never shot a moose but I've used both .300WM's and .338WM's on elk. I couldn't see where the .338 killed any better than the .300. My bullet choice for the .300 was a 200gr NP or Grand Slam (I understand the Grand Slam of today isn't like the old double core ones but I have enough of the old ones to last me a life time). I used it to kill antelope thru elk. It killed antelope a little deader than they needed to be but I didn't have to lug a bunch of different around.
Folks talk about loading a rifle up and down. It may work wonders but I am more of a "develope a good load for a rifle and use it on everything" sort of guy.

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #29 on:** December 17, 2006, 02:39:53 PM »

338 mag
You 300 people have to give up the ghost. The 338 is the winner in this event. From 185 to 300 this is a great hunter rifle. Let us also mention long range shooting with a 338, the 215 Sierra is deadly accurate. I have one and I like it.
Jim