Author Topic: .338 or .300 for Moose and Elk (Read 4585 times)

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 17, 2006, 08:00:02 PM »

I bet there are lots of moose running around Iowa! I on the other hand had one in my side yard not an hour ago. I've seen moose shot with both on several occasions. Guess what, they both killed moose. I've only seen a few one shot drops on moose, and one of those was with a 150gr bullet out of a 270. Moose aren't hard to kill, its convincing them thier dead thats a problem, especially if they are all rutted up. That said there isn't a moose around that can take a hit in the vitals from 160gr 7mm, 180-200gr 30 cal, or 210-250gr 338 cal and not die. A bad hit with any of the same calibers will also have the same result.

Most 300gr 338 bullets are designed for targets not hunting, and they won't do anything that a decent 250gr bullet won't out of your 338 win mag. Velosity is just too low with the 275-300gr 338 bullets. If you need more bullet wieght than 250grs you would benefit much more from a bigger caliber than heavier bullet. Even when shooting the 250s they don't shoot as flat as 225s and probably wouldn't really gain much in practicle performance.

I'd would stack any 200gr bullet in a 300 against a 210gr bullet in the 338 and serously doubt you would be able to tell ANY difference between the two on game. They both work just as well.

The 338 win is a comprimize caliber. If you need bigger than the 300 win, then step up to the 375 H&H or one of the 416s.

The 338 RUM, 340 weatherby, 338-378 step up the performance of the 33 caliber quite a bit, making it really speak with authority out in longer ranges where the heavier 225-250gr bullets at velosites the 300 win shoots 165-180s, then there is a bit of difference.

nasem · « **Reply #31 on:** December 18, 2006, 02:21:11 AM »

I mentioned this on another thread.... I sold my 338 win mag and wanted to by another 338 win mag, but this time in a bolt auction..... It was going to be my primary elk gun HOWEVER, seeing that I have always wanted a true big bore, I went last friday and put an order for a 416 rigby, Figured 300 grain Barens X at 2600-2700 fps should give good trajectory up to 400+ yards (IF i ever need)... so this is the replacement of my 338 win mag.

AS far as practicality goes, When I go elk hunting, if its here in michigan (VERY VERY rare event), most shots are under the 200 yard mark and so I will be taking the 416. IF I end up going on a guided tour with long shots being above the 300 yard mark, most likly I'll take my 300 win mag (I can probebly shoot it more comfortably at longer range than any other caliber I have except the 30-06.)

jro45 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 18, 2006, 03:13:40 AM »

What you get with the 338 RUM : shoots flatter and more Ft Lbs of energy for close up and longer ranges.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #33 on:** December 22, 2006, 03:43:23 AM »

jasonprox700 –

As an elk rifle, the .300 Win Mag is a great choice. Load it with a good 165g or 180g bullet and go hunting – it won’t let you down. My preferences are Trophy Bonded, North Fork, A-Frame and TSX. The .300 can also be easily downloaded – the first loads I developed for mine were in the .308 Win and .30-06 class of performance. It will do for elk and back home for deer and bear pigs or whatever else you may have. And it makes a heck of an antelope rifle.

A trip to Alaska to hunt moose always sounded to me like a good excuse to get a .338 Win. But a well-placed bullet from a .300 will work quite well. The .338’s are fairly popular for elk, but having hunted elk for 24 years with a 7mm Rem Mag I don’t find them necessary. These days I am thinking I’ll skip the .338 Win Mag and get a .375 Ruger.

Sourdough · « **Reply #34 on:** January 05, 2007, 08:08:53 PM »

I use a .338 Win Mag for most of my Moose, really like the way it stops them. Yes I often use my 30-06 too, but I like the .338 better for Moose. I am not a fan of the 300 win mag, I think this cartridge is way overrated. Just my openion, Rog

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #35 on:** January 06, 2007, 03:07:47 AM »

Quote from: Sourdough on January 05, 2007, 08:08:53 PM

I use a .338 Win Mag for most of my Moose, really like the way it stops them. Yes I often use my 30-06 too, but I like the .338 better for Moose. I am not a fan of the 300 win mag, I think this cartridge is way overrated. Just my openion, Rog

Don't know where you live or hunt moose, and I've always figured a moose hunt would be a great excuse to buy a .338. Sure don't need one in Colorado, though as I will never get to hunt moose here. My .300 shoots flatter than my 7mm Mag and delivers more energy to the target and is a superb cartridge for elk.

Between the .30-06, which cannot be loaded up to .300 Win performance, and the .300 Win, which can be easily downloaded to .308 Win performance, I'd have to say the .30-06 is way over-rated.

Not that it matters to me, as I have a .30-30, .308 Win, .30-06 and a .300 Win. And plan on a .308 Marlin.

Don Dick · « **Reply #36 on:** January 10, 2007, 11:50:19 AM »

Sourdough is a resident of Alaska. He is probaby frozen to the outhouse seat again, happens every winter.

Sourdough · « **Reply #37 on:** January 14, 2007, 11:09:40 AM »

Don Dick: The wife gave me a union suite for Christmas, don't have that problem anymore. Yes, it's rough pulling everything down at 40 below like it's been here for the last three weeks in North Pole. But it's warmed up now, it's zero a beautiful weather.

Cayote Hunter: I live in North Pole Alaska, I am retired, and spend a lot of time out in the bush with friends who are homesteaders, miners, or trappers. So far this year I have shot three Moose. Two under proxies for friends, and one for myself. I've lived here for 37 years, and hunt every year. Shooting Moose to me, is like my brothers shooting Whitetails in Tennessee. It's not will I get a Moose this year, but where and when. Caribou too. I went on three long extended Caribou hunts this year. On each hunt we let young GIs that was with us shoot a Caribou. Our last trip we had planned a three day hunt on the Denali highway, using snowmachines. As we headed down the highway and the darkness was fading we suddenly realised we were driving past a herd of Caribou beside the highway. We picked out three bulls and shot them near the road. We were back home by 7PM that evening.

Sourdough · « **Reply #38 on:** January 14, 2007, 11:13:05 AM »

Quote from: Sourdough on January 14, 2007, 11:09:40 AM

Don Dick: The wife gave me a union suite for Christmas, don't have that problem anymore. Yes, it's rough pulling everything down at 40 below like it's been here for the last three weeks in North Pole. But it's warmed up now, it's zero a beautiful weather.

Cayote Hunter: I live in North Pole Alaska, I am retired, and spend a lot of time out in the bush with friends who are homesteaders, miners, or trappers. So far this year I have shot three Moose. Two under proxies for friends, and one for myself. I've lived here for 37 years, and hunt every year. Shooting Moose to me, is like my brothers shooting Whitetails in Tennessee. It's not will I get a Moose this year, but where and when. Caribou too. I went on three long extended Caribou hunts this year. On each hunt we let young GIs that was with us shoot a Caribou. Our last trip we had planned a three day hunt on the Denali highway, using snowmachines. As we headed down the highway and the darkness was fading we suddenly realised we were driving past a herd of Caribou beside the highway. We picked out three bulls and shot them near the road. We were back home by 7PM that evening.

My favorite Moose gun is a TCR (single shot) in .338 mag, but I also use a 30-06 Handi Rifle a lot. This year I took all three Moose with the Handi Rifle.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #39 on:** January 14, 2007, 03:57:06 PM »

Quote from: Sourdough on January 14, 2007, 11:09:40 AM

Don Dick: The wife gave me a union suite for Christmas, don't have that problem anymore. Yes, it's rough pulling everything down at 40 below like it's been here for the last three weeks in North Pole. But it's warmed up now, it's zero a beautiful weather.

Cayote Hunter: I live in North Pole Alaska, I am retired, and spend a lot of time out in the bush with friends who are homesteaders, miners, or trappers. So far this year I have shot three Moose. Two under proxies for friends, and one for myself. I've lived here for 37 years, and hunt every year. Shooting Moose to me, is like my brothers shooting Whitetails in Tennessee. It's not will I get a Moose this year, but where and when. Caribou too. I went on three long extended Caribou hunts this year. On each hunt we let young GIs that was with us shoot a Caribou. Our last trip we had planned a three day hunt on the Denali highway, using snowmachines. As we headed down the highway and the darkness was fading we suddenly realised we were driving past a herd of Caribou beside the highway. We picked out three bulls and shot them near the road. We were back home by 7PM that evening.

Sourdough -

Have only seen temps that low ... never. Thirty below or a tad lower is about it for me, and only a couple times. Don't miss it at all! Went out on the snow machines one night at 20 below and had a great time hill climbing with some friends. Chalk it up to too much alcohol and too little good sense! But that was up in MN back in the late 70's.

I would love to get a moose someday but in all honesty would want to do it when temps were around 40 ... above!

nomosendero · « **Reply #40 on:** January 17, 2007, 05:20:22 PM »

It is hard to visualize this when you live in an area that barely has a winter. The only time that I have felt -40 is when I have gone into
some of the blast freezers that some of my customers have to store poultry. But I am only in there long enough to look at the racks
& forklifts, not long at all, so it is not the same thing at all, & no wind away from the blowers. Still, it doesn't take long to feel it!

kudzu · « **Reply #41 on:** January 18, 2007, 12:01:56 PM »

My first choice would be my 300rum Sendero. I know it's deadly on elk loaded with the 200 Accubonds, and feel sure it would be on moose.
I'm like coyote hunter, I could take a 308, 30-06, 300saum, or 338wm for back-up. Or maybe my 7mmrum and soon to be 7mag (adding a 7mag to my list of encore pro hunter barrels). Can't never have too much back-up. At least that's what I keep telling meself.

handirifle · « **Reply #42 on:** January 27, 2007, 09:50:20 PM »

I haven't hunted with either and only shot a 300 WM of the two. I just built, and am reloading now for my 338-06, which SHOULD be the best of both worlds, for me. A 180gr Nosler Accubond at over 3000 or a 225gr Hornady at 2700+, should do the trick.

Not an RUM by any means, but it can give the 300 WM velocities, with a lot less powder and recoil.

For you, I think back to what a co-worker here, that will go back to AK after 3 years away (he's lived in AK for the last 20yrs), has told me. "You don't carry a big caliber for moose, they're suprisingly easy to kill, you carry a big caliber because of the big bears, that LIVE where you hunt moose."

Seems like good advice to me, so I'd vote for the 338.

Mr. Joe · « **Reply #43 on:** February 01, 2007, 02:39:42 AM »

Given your choiced, i would with the .300 rem mag. I can see no advantages in the other calibers for your use.

kudzu · « **Reply #44 on:** February 01, 2007, 08:43:31 AM »

Mr. Joe , Do you mean the 300win. mag. The only 300 rem mags that I am aware of is the 300rem saum and 300rem ultra mag.
Figured just a typo, but just making sure there ain't something out there I don't know about. Like to stay up-to-date.

DM

Mr. Joe · « **Reply #45 on:** February 01, 2007, 11:37:51 AM »

Lol, i guess i didnt have my coffe yet! I meant to say 300 win mag. I would prefer a big 7, but since it wasnt on there i figured there was no intrest in it. The .300 mag is a really nice round though, and i dont think the others offer any advantages for this use.

kudzu · « **Reply #46 on:** February 01, 2007, 12:01:26 PM »

I really like my 300rum for elk. I know ones like coyotehunter, who lives in Co. says he has never taken an elk over 350 yrds, and say's he fine with a 7mag. I also think that the 7mag and 300wm are great choices for elk. However, it's 2800 miles for me to get to Co. where we elk hunt. In the 9 day hunt my only two shots were 425+ yards. Not saying the other two would not have worked, but sure glad I had my 300rum. Both were one shot kills, and besides, what a good reason to buy another rifle. If I lived out there my choice may be differant, but for a once every few years trip, my 300rum sendero will stay at the top of my list. Every other new rifle will be under the "back-up" theory.

DM

Mr. Joe · « **Reply #47 on:** February 02, 2007, 03:03:06 AM »

Lol, all good choices. My personal favorite rifle for anything is a remington 700 in 8x57, but i think that if i had a trip like that in mind, i would take my big 7, if only for the long shots that *may* present themselves. I would hate to have to pass up a shot because it was of a questionable range. The .300 RUM would be another great choice.

NONYA · « **Reply #48 on:** February 02, 2007, 06:00:07 AM »

The 300wm is plenty for both,nothing you cant kill with one shot in NA with the 300 wm,that includes all the big bears and BIGFOOT!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #49 on:** February 02, 2007, 11:36:53 AM »

Quote from: NONYA on February 02, 2007, 06:00:07 AM

The 300wm is plenty for both,nothing you cant kill with one shot in NA with the 300 wm,that includes all the big bears and BIGFOOT!

Perhaps I am wrong, but I think most people would agree that a .300 Win Mag, a .30-06, a .308 Win or even a .30-30 is sufficient for killing big bears. The problem, IMHO, is not hunting bears, it is the enexpected encounter.

If I were to find myself about to see Brer Bear's tonsils up close and personal, I would much prefer a .338 with a heavy bullet over a lighter bullet of the same type in a .30 configuration. The .30 would probably do the trick, sooner or later...

Actually, in that situation, nothing would give me more comfort than my Marlin .45-70 with five 2183fps 350g North Forks in the magazine and one in the chamber ...

Just my opinion...

NONYA · « **Reply #50 on:** February 02, 2007, 07:10:09 PM »

30-30?Possible..yes...recomended NO!

Ratltrap · « **Reply #51 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:10:22 PM »

Either would do the job, but I'll go +1 on what Golsovia said earlier. 338 is the obvious niche caliber with your 280 already in the rack, but if you don't mind the recoil I'd probably go with the RUM. Here's why.

To me, the only thing that detracts from the 338 Win is that it will have a somewhat different trajectory than the 300 Win. and your 280 with midrange bullet weights. I like to pick niche cartridges so that their trajectory matches other cartridges I already have for another use. That way I don't have to think too much when I'm making holdover shots, which is always good news. 7-08, 30-06, and 375 H&H for example. That dilemma is solved in this situation by selecting the RUM over the Win.

GaryCrow · « **Reply #52 on:** February 03, 2007, 08:33:12 PM »

Given that you have a 280, I'd opt for the 338 win mag, it'll round out your collection nicely and it's an outstanding elk and moose round. Going to a 300 win mag from a 280 just isn't that big of a step up in my opinion. I'd stay away from the ultramags, I don't like them. I reload for a friend's 338 ultramag and don't care for it at all. He can't shoot it well because it kicks him too hard, and I don't see where it offers anything over my 338 win mag except more recoil.

NONYA · « **Reply #53 on:** February 15, 2007, 05:35:03 PM »

Dont forget the 8mm Rem mag it fits the spot as well.

Mr. Joe · « **Reply #54 on:** February 16, 2007, 02:21:44 AM »

After giving the subject more thought....Given that you have a .280...i would use the .280. "Any good riflemen with proper bullets can cleanly take any N. American game with cartridges of the .270-.30-06 class." Dont beleive me? Thats a direct quote from the dean of gunwriters, Jack O'Connor.

As for myself...i would use a 180 or 200 gr. partition of the 8x57 persuasion...and yes, i own many more powerfull calibers.

If your looking to buy a cool new toy though...i would check out the .375 ruger. That just looks neat.

deltecs · « **Reply #55 on:** April 11, 2007, 08:25:24 PM »

Why, oh why must one decide immediately for a magnum when thinking about moose, elk, mule deer and bear? Especially for a handloader? Belted rim cartridges are a bit more difficult to reload than straight bottleneck cartridges. Truth, just look in any reloading manual for the pros and cons in reloading. Myth, other cartridges not having the magnum label just will not do the job as well. Some of the previous posts have hit the nail on the head. If you are looking for one rifle to hunt everything in North America, pick the 30-06, reload, and pick the bullets for the game to be hunted and hunt. No, it is not the best cartridge choice for every game individually. It is however good enough to take any game, anywhere world wide under the right conditions, and has, and will continue to be a game getter. Should you lose your ammo on a trip, you can always find some for the 06. I think someone should mention that the trajectory and energy of a 200 gr at 300 yards from the old man is -8" and almost 2200ft/pds of energy. It still has over 1900 ft/pds of energy at 400 yds and -23". The great 7MM Rem Mag with its extremely flat trajectory has only 1800 ft/pds of energy at 300 yds and -7" holdover. And at 400 yds the mag is down to 1500 ft/pds at a -20" correction. From there on out the 06 looks better for both energy and trajectory. At close range the sectional density and momentum of the 200 gr bullet from the 06 far surpasses that of the 7mm mag. If the 06 does this, what more does the hunter require. If he wants more energy go to a larger bore. At long range the trajectory differences just aren't valid reasons to choose magnum velocities to gain at most a couple of inches at 500 yds. I'd like to meet the hunter who can actually tell the range that accurately so that these inches make the difference between meat or famine.
Greg
deltecs

northern hunter · « **Reply #56 on:** April 12, 2007, 12:46:52 PM »

Get a 338-06 Weatherby or a 9.3x62 in a Tika T3 light stainless and you have light weight and lots of power to handle your moose,or anything else out to any reasonably distance..

shoot once and carry a sharp knife

Sourdough · « **Reply #57 on:** April 12, 2007, 08:17:31 PM »

There must be a reason the .338 Win Mag is the most populer gun in Alaska. A 225 gr Nosler partition, dead center of the shoulder, puts a big Moose down, and they don't get back up. A 30 cal won't do that. Have seen lots of Moose lost with .30 cals. That includes the .300 Mag. The 30 cals are not bone smashers, and that's what it takes to anchor a Moose. With a 30-06 or 300 you have to make a heart or lung shot. A big Moose will run away, and either get away or get into water. Both of which you don't want to happen.

Yes, I've killed a few Moose with a 30-06, but I've killed so many I don't get excited upon seeing one. And I shoot them right behind the ear. Most people that I have hunted with have gotten so excited when a BIG Moose stood up that they can't hold still. I've seen many seasoned hunter get the shakes so bad that they could not hit a Moose beyond 50 yards. I've seen lots of Moose antlers with bullet holes in them. That's why I am an advocate of shooting at the biggest target availiable, the shoulder. Yes you will loose a little meat, but what is five pounds out of 3 to 4 hundred.

Last September one of my partners made a heart shot with a .375 H&H. The Moose never went down, it started climbing a bank. He shot him again, a lung shot. The Moose then turned ran 20 yards and jumped into the river. Luckily we were near our rafts. The shooter jumped in his raft and chased it down stream. He caught it half a mile down river after it died, and managed to get it into shallow water. It sure was miseriable cleaning it in water. Moose are so big that four or five people aren't going to drag one out of the water. I can't say much about the size of the little Shirus Moose they have down in the lower 48, and southern Canada, never hunted them. As for the Yukon and Alaskian Moose think of a draft horse on stilts.

deltecs · « **Reply #58 on:** April 13, 2007, 06:41:22 PM »

Back to the original question and the answer is still; why oh why must one immediately demand a magnum for hunting moose. The 06 is better suited for most of the game he is going to hunt over his projected hunting experience according to the question. Apparently he plans to use this weapon for elk and mule deer in the future. One definitely does not need a .338 mag for elk or mule deer. If hunting moose, I stand by my post that I'd prefer to use the 9.3x62 and do as good or better job than the .338 Win. It definitely hits as hard and penetration is more than substantial. A .35 Whelen would also work just fine for the game he plans to hunt as well. The idea of using the biggest rifle for the largest game I'm ever going to shoot or encounter just don't make sense. Buy the rifle for the game you are going to hunt most often or encounter, and be extremely confident in its capabilities that if you do your job, it will do its. A 30-06 handloaded to 2400 fps with 220 gr Hornady, Woodleigh, or Sierra RN bullets will break a big bulls shoulder and put him down. You'll probably find the nicely mushroomed bullet near the skin on the far side too. I agree that the .338 Win will do a better job, but the 06 will do a fine one. As a handloader, one has a much better bullet selection for penetration, velocity and structure than factory loads, so one rifle can do a better job than would warrant normally. One does not need a magnum for hunting moose, elk, bear, deer, bison, or any animal in North America.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #59 on:** April 13, 2007, 08:49:44 PM »

Sourdough-

I really think that you must have had a bad bunch of 30 cal bullets. I have watched a 180 or 200gr partition blow up the shoulders of a moose a few different times. I've seen the 180gr partition break the spine after going thru the top of one shoulder, I have watched 180gr TSX break the heck out of a moose legbone and far shoulder. I've actually never seen a premium bullet fail even on moose. I've never used anything but partitions and TSX bullets though. I remember reading where you had a problems with penetration on caribou with the 300 win, I really gotta ask, what bullet were you using? I honestly have complete faith in my load of 200gr partition at just under 3000fps as being adequate to break any moose shoulder I ever want to shoot, I am equally confident in the 180gr partition and 180gr TSX federal premium load that my two hunting partners use because I have seen what it will do. I also agree that a 225-250gr premium bullet out of a 338 is going to work very well but I don't see it as working that much better than the 180-200gr 300 mag. My one buddy has used the same ruger 77 300 win with federal premium 180gr partitions for everying thing in alaska, 20+ moose, two grizzly, several black bear, many carabou and deer. You just can't argue with that kind of performance.