Lawyers, and America's legal system.

[WylieKy]

Disclaimer: I know that there are lawyers on this board.  Before you get all offended, understand that I am making a generalization.  After all, my best friend knew a guy who heard of a lawyer that was ok. 

As some of you may know, I am going through a marital seperation. It is as amicable as such things can be.  Equal division of property and debt, shared custody, no child support, no alimony.  Here is my issue (one of them anyways.)  We wanted to make sure our separation paperwork was legal, so we contacted the Family Court to see if they would go over it, or assign a mediator.  They said no, we must retain our own attorney.  OK, that sucks, becuase it is money spent on basically nothing, but no big deal.  So, we contacted an attorney.  He refused to mediate or review our paperwork, said that he can represent one, but not both of us, as it is a potential conflict of interest. Once again, OK, that sucks, more money spent on nothing, but I can deal with it.  So, each of us consulted our own attorney, simply to make sure everything was legal, and make everything as smooth as possible.  Both of us walked out on our own consultations, because each lawyer wanted us to get down and dirty with the each other to get as much as we can, we don't want to get "What we can." What we have agreed to is fair.  I told my attorney that no, I do not want to put the woman I have spent more than half of my lfie with through the wringer, I just want to make sure what we are doing is legal.  He looked at me and asked me how I will feel about another man raising my daughter!!  I got up a left after giving serious contemplation to knocking his teeth into the back of his throat.

I know why they did what they did.  They get a lot of more money out of a long, bloody divorce than a simple parting of ways with good wishes on both sides.  I wonder how many lives are ruined by these fiends.  How many couples may have reconciled or at least been amicable without that influence.  How many children have been affected by witnessing vicious battles between bitter parents because a lawyer took someone in a fragile emotional state and gave them that extra little nudge and it turned ugly, just so they could make a little extra cash.

I know that we each choose our own path, and are ultimately responsible for our own actions, but outside influences can change our perceptions, especially when we are going through one of the most painfull times imagineable. I hope those blood suckers are held accountable for their influence, and their greed.

 Luckily, my wife and I have strong enough personalities to not let ourselves be bullied.  We have completed our own paperwork and will file on our own.  Maybe I could get more money, and less debt.  Maybe I could get full custody.  Bottom line is I don't need more money, and it would cause my wife hardship. Also, she's a great mother, and what happens in our relationship, has nothing to do with their relationship, why would I want to take my daughter away from her, if I don't have to?

WylieKy

[30-30man]

I feel for you brother and I'm sorry to hear this.  Just be thankful it is a pleasant departure.  My sister went through a messy divorce with huge debt her exhusband was responsible for(drugs).  The only thing was she was the only one working so she got stuck with all the debt.  He claimed he was attempting to get disability because his back was messed up. He had notes from doctors and such.  He could go hunting and fishing , climb up deer stands, and in and out of boats but he could not work.  I thought about hurting him on several occassions but my children kept me from doing it.  The truth of the matter is,   he is hooked on oxycottin and borrowed more than he or she could pay.  In all, they had over $300,000 in debt.  I hate divorce but I guess we can be thankful it is a peaceful one for you.  Just take your lumps and move on.  That is about the best anybody can do in a divorce.

[powderman]

Many years ago a lawyer told me that legal had nothing to do with right or wrong, or justice, just legal. He also told me that if a man paid him enough money that he could get a sodomy charge dropped to following too close. That atty represented me in an insurance battle over a farm accident. My neighbor was at fault, but he was, and is my friend. You should of seen the attys  face when he found out my neighbor had over 300 acres, he said, it now belongs to you. You should have seen his face when I said NOOOOOOOO. It was an accident, he's my friend and neighbor, just pay my medical bills.  The atty got 1/3 of the settlement for making phone calls and sending letters, that is 1/3 + his expenses. He sent me a memo in a well used manila envelope that had been used in inter office stuff, addresses taped over, etc, he charged me $5 + postage for it. I told him that he forgot to charge for a paper clip, I didn't want to cheat him. In all fairness I had another experience with one. We solicited a donation for help for the needy at Christmas, I'd known him for years, he's a Christian. He not only gave money, he got social security for 2 disabled married folks, they had been turned down 2x, they were in their mid to late 60s. He did it for free. There is at least one good one anyway. POWDERMAN.   

[Haywire Haywood]

I had a similar experience when I got divorced.  We walked into the attorney's office with everything worked out and on paper.  He said he couldn't represent both of us.  He ended up representing my ex- but put everything on paper exactly as we asked.  The only hitch was KY law had a formula for minimum child support that the judge applied instead of our agreed amount.  It was about $60 more.

Ian

[WylieKy]

Part of what burns me up is that the Family Court refused to tell us if what we had done was legal.  There is no neutral party to consult.  We must turn to someone who is monitarily vested in the advise they give.  It's like asking a car salesman what kind of truck you need. Why, you must have leather, heated seats, full towing package, computerized navigation system, 589 liter, super ultra duramax engine, rockett power, bullet proof glass, ect...... I'm not one on big government, but there should be someone to consult with simple questions who is a neutral party.

WylieKy

[rockbilly]

As Jerry Reed said in one of his songs, "she got the gold mine, I got the shaft."  Sounds like he was dealing with a lawyer too.

[Haywire Haywood]

See if there is a Legal Self-Help in your town.  There is one here that has all the forms for a variety of legal actions.  The only hitch is that you can't give out legal advice unless you are a bar certified lawyer.  The lady that runs the one around here has been sited on several occasions for answering questions.  It's against the law to be helpful don't ya know.

Ian

[Questor]

Take heart. Statistically, men come out ahead financially in divorces. Believe it or not.

[DWTim]

I went through a divorce about four years ago, although NOT the same situation. Things only get complicated when there is valuable property in both your names, or there are children. The length of the marriage can also make it more complicated. Long story short, if the agreement doesn't look too one-sided on paper, and if the proper paperwork is filed correctly, the court isn't going to have a problem with it.

My ex-wife also didn't want an attorney, so she used mine. My attorney explained to her that it would not be ethical for him to represent her, and that she could change her mind about anything at any time before the judge made it final. So technically, only I was represented. It wasn't "represented" in a traditional sense, because it was a "pro se" divorce. My attorney basically blew through the paperwork for us.

Personally, I wouldn't do pro se if there were kids involved and property in both your names, because it could get ugly in a hurry.

[dukkillr]

Your attorney was correct, I doubt you would find any knowledgable, ethical attorney that will represent both sides of a divorce.  I wouldn't do it.  Why jeopardize my career for $500? 

I hate divorces.  They are bad business, but I absolutely always hope that they can be resolved without contest/trial/bickering.  An uncontested divorce is a good divorce.  A contested divorce can be a black hole of time, and depending on the payment arrangment, can be horrible for business. 

Some of the advice people have given here will not apply in every state.  Divorce laws very wildly by jursidiction.

It's easy to generalize and lawyers certainly make easy targets at time, but I sure hope you're smart enough to understand that you're inflamatory language helps nothing.  I don't insult other professions even when I'm frustrated by the work a given individual or two doesn't live up to my expectations. 

[WylieKy]

,
The fact that the same lawyer can't represent both of us isn't the issue.  Today we found an attorney willing to meet with both of us, and submit what we have agreed on, (there is both a child and property, but we split everything evenly and plan to share custody), she just made it clear that she would "represent" whomever was filing the complaint, but was willing to work with both of us with that understanding.  She is basically just doing the filing and making sure everything is legal. 

dukkiller,
The inflammatory language is directed at those that take advantage of the situation.  For example, the man trying infuriate me by asking me about another man rasing my daughter.  That is low, low, low.......  The only reason to say something like that is to start a fight so he can profit.  He made the consious decision to cause strife between two people for his monitary gain.  I do not begrudge the man making a living, as my business would be considered less than pleasant by most, but if he has to push people over the edge from discord to hate to make a buck....well, I hope there is justice in the end.  My wife had a similar experience with her attorney, although not as blatant.  I apologize if I offended you, it was not my intent.  Unless you cause pain for profit, in which case it was my intent.

WylieKy

[unspellable]

It's not just divorce lawyers.  I called the local DA to clarify a point of law and was told I had to consult a private attorny.  The private attornie's opinion is worth squat, it's the DA who will decide to prosecute if I were to step on the wrong side of the line and he's drawing the line.