Do you check headspace on your milsurps?

[Cement Man]

How much do you trust your milsurps?  I have often bought headspace gauges for mine and checked them out.  I have also tied some of mine to a sawhorse and fired the first few shots by pulling a long string from a safe position and then examining the brass and primer.  Most of my milsurps are in very good condition, with all matching numbers, so I have strong confidence in their safety with proper ammunition.  Nevertheless, I am cautious.  Do importers check guns at all?  I doubt that some of my cosmoline queens could have been checked. 
What do you do?  Would appreciate hearing your experiences and opinions.

[jgalar]

I have the gauges for most of the common milsurps and usually check them while de-cosmoing.

I don't worry about it too much as I will load some reduced charge cartridges for the first firing. From then on I just neck size the cases and I always shoot cast bullets anyway.

[S.S.]

I tie mine to a Tire and pull the trigger with a string for a few shots
and thoroughly inspect and measure the fired cases. I trust that a little more than
a Go / No-GO gauge. But Yes, Make sure to check them somehow.

[prairiedog555]

I have my gunsmith check headspace.  for a couple of dollars I think it is worth it.  I have read about blown up actions, I value my sight.  I guess bad ammo could still cause an accident but I try to lower my odds.  If it is feasable I usually defer to an expert, I used to hold a new gun out at arms length with my face turned away for the first few shots, but then I thought that if there is a problem it might show up on the 5th round ect.  I don't set my own bones or do my taxs either. 

[1911crazy]

I have the "field headspace gage" for most of my military calibers and I also have some "No Go" gages for a few popular calibers like my 8mm mauser, 7mm chilean and 6,5mm swede.  I have the "go" gage for my 8mm mauser only because of my project gun with the barrel change.  I have one 308 french MAS36 that failed drastically on the field gage thank god i never shot it.  As were in the bottom of the barrel now with surplups we never know what will be passed on to us now i trust no one.

[S.B.]

Cement Man, where are you in Illinois, I'm in Pontiac?

[Cement Man]

S.B.
between Sterling-Rock Falls and Clinton, IA, quite a bit northwest of you.  I used to pheasant hunt down your way about 40 years ago - when there were pheasants.

[The Cast Bullet Kid]

Yes.  The SMLE I bought recently was very generous in the headspace until I swapped out the bolt head for a 'taller' one.

[S.B.]

S.B.
between Sterling-Rock Falls and Clinton, IA, quite a bit northwest of you.  I used to pheasant hunt down your way about 40 years ago - when there were pheasants.

Up by Rockford? I've worked up at Byron power station nad Quad Cities. The pheasant are mostly gone, now.

[RaySendero]

How much do you trust your milsurps?  I have often bought headspace gauges for mine and checked them out.  I have also tied some of mine to a sawhorse and fired the first few shots by pulling a long string from a safe position and then examining the brass and primer.  Most of my milsurps are in very good condition, with all matching numbers, so I have strong confidence in their safety with proper ammunition.  Nevertheless, I am cautious.  Do importers check guns at all?  I doubt that some of my cosmoline queens could have been checked. 
What do you do?  Would appreciate hearing your experiences and opinions.

Cement Man,

A retired GS told me a way to roughly check headspace when Go-NoGo gauges aren't available:

Take a reload dummy round.  Add one piece of plastic electrial tape to the base and trim it round to the head.  Chamber it.  Should go without force - may get an impression of the firing pin on tape.  Add another piece of tape and trim.  Should feel tape compress with resistance on bolt.  Should get major impression of bolt face and firing pin on tape - If NOT there is good chance that HS is too great.

This method doesnot substitute when a good check by good GS is available!  Even when I have used this method, I still sandbag the rifle completely around the action and use string to fire it several times.  Latter I've had two rifle that passed this test checked - And Check OK.

[Cement Man]

S.B. - near Morrison, about half way between Byron and QC.  I believe my good friend who owns our local gunshop works at QC.  The pheasant situation is sad compared to 30-40 years ago.  Then again, we now have deer, turkey, and geese in far greater numbers.

Ray,
That is interesting.  I assume the reload dummy is done to OAL "standards".  I'm inclined to still buy a set of gauges for those cartridges which I have several rifles in.  I can see I am not the only one who checks things out first though.  I don't think it's a bad idea to be very careful .

[RaySendero]

CM,

I'm not sure what you mean by "OAL standards".  The dummy round is for safety - Don't want a round going off when I close the bolt! The COL doesn't have anything to do with head space as all the milsurp calibers I have all head space on the neck. Now, I do trim the case to its standard OAL.  A second value of the reload is that it takes in to account my particular dies in the headspace test.

Since I'm not into collecting, all the milsurps I have are (or are going to be) shooters.  I'll either restore or sporterize them for a deer and hog rifle.  So from a safety stand point, I take extra care as the rifle may end up as my wife's, son's or grandson's.

[Cement Man]

Ray,
I gotcha about the dummy.  I didn't think out or phrase my sentence very well.

[Robert357]

Take a reload dummy round.  Add one piece of plastic electrial tape to the base and trim it round to the head.  Chamber it.  Should go without force - may get an impression of the firing pin on tape.  Add another piece of tape and trim.  Should feel tape compress with resistance on bolt.  Should get major impression of bolt face and firing pin on tape - If NOT there is good chance that HS is too great.

I have read about a similar method but using many more layers of scotch tape and a caliper. (actually it was a micrometer not caliper)

I have also read (and believe) that headspacing is much less of an issue on military rounds that fire rimmed cartridges. 

Having said this, I also feel it is very important to wear shooting glasses, gloves and pully ones head back.  I have an advantage in that I hand load, and will usually start with a very light load and work my way up, checking for any signs of problems on the fired cases after each shot. 

[RaySendero]

.....
Having said this, I also feel it is very important to wear shooting glasses, gloves and pully ones head back.  I have an advantage in that I hand load, and will usually start with a very light load and work my way up, checking for any signs of problems on the fired cases after each shot. 

Robert,

Just a tip.
I reload too and do like to start with light loads in unknown or questionable situations too.  Twice I've started at a minimum book load and it DID NOT have enough pressure to expand the case and SEAL it.  Gas came back out the chamber to the bolt face and out the gas port!  Since I never start at minimum!  Always start about 1 grains or so over minimum.

[Robert357]

That is pretty interesting.  Thanks for the advice.  I also have done some cast lead bullet loading for military suplus rounds using the famous (Ed Harris Universal Load) 16 grains of Alliant 2400 and a lead bullet of medium weight.  I have never had a problem with this fast burning powder not sealing.  Any thougths as to if this might be a better starting point and then working back to a slightly above minimum load.

P.S.  I would be curious as to learn more about the minimum loads that didn't work.  Were you using a fairly slow powder?  For most milsurp type reloading I like the Hodgdon H4895, which seems to do just fine with about anything.  They also advertize that you can drop H-4895 down to 60% of the full pressure load if you want to use it for reduced recoil or their "youth loads."  I have used this at 50% powder amount for cast bullet shooting and had not problems.

Thanks again for the reminder that light loads can cause problems as well.

[RaySendero]

.....

P.S.  I would be curious as to learn more about the minimum loads that didn't work.  Were you using a fairly slow powder?  For most milsurp type reloading I like the Hodgdon H4895, which seems to do just fine with about anything.  They also advertize that you can drop H-4895 down to 60% of the full pressure load if you want to use it for reduced recoil or their "youth loads."  I have used this at 50% powder amount for cast bullet shooting and had not problems.

.....

Yes, both were fairly slow:
1) 8x57 starting load of IMR-4895
2) 7.7x58 starting load of IMR-4350

[1911crazy]

If you have your C&RFFL03 brownells gives discounts to us and i purchased a few headspace gauges at a time for all my surplus calibers.  I purchased the field headspace gauges first  and then some No=go gauges and the go gauges for my barrel changes.