Author Topic: Winchester Apex (Read 3302 times)

xx78 · « **on:** December 01, 2006, 09:35:21 AM »

Anyone own a Winchester Apex? I'm looking to buy an in-line muzzleloader and this one caught my eye. I am undecided between the Winchester and the TC Omega. Opinons, anyone?

45/70fan · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2006, 09:47:24 AM »

Cableas has the Winchester Apex stainless .45 and .50 marked down from $399.99 to $199.99
I'm thinking of ordering the .50

xx78 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2006, 09:48:30 AM »

Yep, Thats where I saw the Apex. Seems like a good deal.

45/70fan · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2006, 09:50:04 AM »

Sure does and I have a $20 coupon that just sweetens the deal.

VolFan9183 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:35:58 PM »

I bought the blued/black fleck this Spring and am quite happy with it...see my post "SST vs. Powerbelt." I'm shooting the 338 gr Platinum Powerbelt with 130 gr Pyrodex pellets and getting 2-3" groups at 100 yds. I'm fine with that considering 200 yards is pretty much the max for me with a muzzleloader. Took 2 deer in Illinois a couple of weeks ago, a large buck at 150 yds and a doe at about 15 feet. Both shots contacted bone and both bullets exited leaving good blood trails when needed.

dmurphy317 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:47:24 PM »

I like the Apex I bought my son, camo and Stainless. First load I tried was a 250 ShockWave over 130gr of pellets, it shot about 3" to 4" groups at 200 yards on the first range session. 2" high at 100 and 3" low at 200. I still have some work to do to find the best loads for it but it certainly supprized me with that first load. It seems like a good solid gun and the quality and feel is very acceptable, especially for the price. I like it better from a fit me perspective than the TC Omega.

Good luck with it.
David

Swampman · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2006, 06:08:03 PM »

It's made by CVA in Spain. They aren't proofed to use 3 pellets. Keep the load down to 80 grains of 3F and you shouldn't have a problem.

skamaniac · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2006, 03:33:01 AM »

Actually they are not made by CVA but made by BPI which also produces other brand muzzleloaders and i THINK CVA is one of them. From the owners manual: All Winchester muzzleloaders are rated to shoot a maximum 150 grain equivilant of pelletized powder. The RECOMMENDED amount of loose powder(black powder or approved substitue) is 100 grains by volume. The only approved propellents are A) Authentic FFG black powder B) Pyrodex brand black powder subsititue (Select or RS) and Pyrodex pellets. C) Triple 7 black powder subsitute and Triple 7 pellets. D) Clean Shot brand blackpowder substitute (Pioneer powder company) and Clean Shot pelletized powder. E) Clear shot brand black powder substitute.

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2006, 04:48:56 AM »

Just remember they aren't proofed for 150 grains of anything. Be careful! I wouldn't go over 100.

mangulator · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2006, 10:04:19 AM »

Even though I'm an NEF guy. I have been thinking about getting the APEX, I have heard good things about the muzzleloader.

xx78 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2006, 11:52:15 AM »

Thanks for all the info.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2006, 02:04:16 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 03, 2006, 04:48:56 AM

Just remember they aren't proofed for 150 grains of anything. Be careful! I wouldn't go over 100.

HAHAHA.. He doesnt know what hes talking about. Ive shot a couple hundred shots of 150 grains LOOSE pyrodex RS out of my winchester and did perfectly. It was a waste of powder though. Made very pretty powder burning show! 295 grain powerbelt. 100 grains recommened by winchester is a load that gives best accuracy. Apex is the deal of the century.

Swampman · « **Reply #12 on:** December 24, 2006, 02:39:26 PM »

So you lived through 200 shots. That proves nothing. #201 may be your last. These guns are proofed to less than 1/2 of the pressure a 150 grain load subjects them to. They may hold together, and they may not. I like CVA/Winchester products, but they are a little scarry.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #13 on:** December 24, 2006, 02:46:10 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 24, 2006, 02:39:26 PM

So you lived through 200 shots. That proves nothing. #201 may be your last. These guns are proofed to less than 1/2 of the pressure a 150 grain load subjects them to. They may hold together, and they may not. I like CVA/Winchester products, but they are a little scarry.

Nothing scary about winchester muzzleloaders at all. You guys read reports by so called Experts and tuck tail and hide. The cva barrel explosions are a thing of the past. What are TC barrels tested at? I read a post where i guy accidently fired his ramrod out of his TC renegade i believe and it bulged the barrel badly and a replacement was needed. And he was only shooting 90 grains ffg and patched roundball! Now that is what scares me. CVA apollo on certain models are bad. No reports yet of any other cva with barrel problems. Keep shootin 'em and enjoy.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #14 on:** December 24, 2006, 02:56:04 PM »

150 grain pellet max. 100-130 loose reccomended

mangulator · « **Reply #15 on:** December 24, 2006, 04:05:27 PM »

I have a friend that shoots 120 grains of loose in his Winchester and no problems and I just bought a CVA Kodiak the rifles are the same design and made by BPI. The the information I have is 150 grain pellet and max 100-130 grain loose so I would be safe to say they are tested to those pressures. I do not know where some people get their information. I know of other that shoot their CVA at those pressure without problems.

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2006, 11:54:04 PM »

Just reporting the facts. They aren't proofed for 150 grains, or even close to it. I don't care what the paperwork says. I've shot a lot (a whole lot)of dangerous loads, but not in Spanish made guns. They are "probably" safe, it's your face.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 25, 2006, 01:51:06 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 24, 2006, 11:54:04 PM

Just reporting the facts. They aren't proofed for 150 grains, or even close to it. I don't care what the paperwork says. I've shot a lot (a whole lot)of dangerous loads, but not in Spanish made guns. They are "probably" safe, it's your face.

I agree with you 100%, some guys will never learn.

mangulator · « **Reply #18 on:** December 25, 2006, 06:04:47 AM »

Well, I guess if the gun does not have a big price tag on it its not worth it. But I will shoot my CVA's and and cheap NEF's and still bag animals and out shoot the high price guns.

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** December 25, 2006, 06:23:39 AM »

NEFs are fine American made guns. Every NEF product is proof tested, which is pretty uncommon.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #20 on:** December 25, 2006, 07:41:46 AM »

NEF is a good gun if you like the crappy ramrod and the major blowby issues they have. 170 grains pyrodex rs and 295 grain powerbelt worked fine out of my rifle. Whats nef proof tested to? Some guys will never learn when to stop listening to that moron Randy Wakeman/toby bridges.

Swampman · « **Reply #21 on:** December 25, 2006, 07:48:19 AM »

I just thought you might be interested in your own safety, and that of those who shoot with you. If you aren't, then no problem. Plastic surgey is a lot better than it you used to be. They can make people look almost normal. NEF is a fine American made product. Some people do have problems understanding the ramrod. CVA/Winchester products are like clorine in the gene pool.

mangulator · « **Reply #22 on:** December 25, 2006, 08:07:08 AM »

Well, Swampman, you can have your opinion but you will be missing out on some fine shooting guns. But about NEF if they are so great why when I buy one I need to do so much custom work to get it to shoot right. The company does not want to fix their poor breach plug tool or their flimsey ram rod. But with that said I do own several NEF guns but each one I had to do a lot of work too.

There was those that at one time stated the Glock pistols might explode but I have carried one on duty now for the last 15 years without a problem....

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #23 on:** December 25, 2006, 08:12:12 AM »

My normal load used to be 150 grains loose pyro rs but now that ive switched to the 245 grain powerbelt hollow points, i got a good load worked up with 120 grains. Very deadly rifle. The stock is just simply amazing with how sturdy it is. Easy to clean bolt. 150 grains loose is more powder than 150 grain pellets. CVA apollo is the one and only rifle ever to explode due to poor design. And cva is no longer cva, cva is just a name that BPI still runs. Quality has improved greatly. I know 4 - 5 guys that all loved TC and nef, They all bought the Apex's from winchester and fell in love and sold their nef's. And now a lot of guys owning the omegas are seeing this and are like. oh man now your giving me an itch to buy one of these! If you havnt looked at the winchester line and held them to your shoulder, They put tc/nef to shame. Even the cheapest model winchester sold offers more than TC. You guys can admit to TC's black plastic stock beign poorly made and flexy. Not bashing TC or anything, just stating the truth. Merry Christmas by the way guys!

mangulator · « **Reply #24 on:** December 25, 2006, 08:22:34 AM »

It comes down to common sense. Follow the manufacture guidlines and work up a load. I find that 100 grains of powder is very accurate in my Kodial Pro Magnum. I just hate it when there are people out there that will bash a firearm and not look at facts.

Swampman · « **Reply #25 on:** December 25, 2006, 10:42:56 AM »

As long as you don't go over 80 grains of 3F, I believe they will stay in one piece. The NEF works perfectly as designed. The T/C Omega, and the Savage are the best.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #26 on:** December 25, 2006, 11:14:19 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 25, 2006, 10:42:56 AM

As long as you don't go over 80 grains of 3F, I believe they will stay in one piece. The NEF works perfectly as designed. The T/C Omega, and the Savage are the best.

LMAO! this guy has no clue what hes about. Omegas are good guns if you can shoot sabots, they suck with conicals. i handled one and was not impressed. I cant believe you'd mention the omega and not the Encore. the encore is by far a better rifle than the omega. I just cant use them due to the stock being short. I've talked a to a few people already that had the same problem with the short stock. 80grains 3f, HA! i shoot 110grains 3f out of my flintlocks.

Swampman · « **Reply #27 on:** December 25, 2006, 11:35:13 AM »

You have CVA flintlocks that will go off? I don't like the Encore at all. Even as a pistol it's hideous I'm hoping S&W will drop the Encore and keep the Omega.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #28 on:** December 25, 2006, 11:45:22 AM »

2 traditions. go off with a big boom everytime. Thinking about buying a kentucky pistol in flintlock. What didnt you like about the encore? i liked the style of the stock, they just designed it for a really REALLY small person. The omega i wasnt impressed with, the drop breech was nice and smooth but everything else, the balance, the sights and especially not being able to use the trigger with gloves on due to the way undersized trigger guard turned me off. Along with knowing hardly any of them will shoot conicals.

Biff Mayhem · « **Reply #29 on:** December 25, 2006, 01:16:41 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 25, 2006, 11:35:13 AM

You have CVA flintlocks that will go off? I don't like the Encore at all. Even as a pistol it's hideous I'm hoping S&W will drop the Encore and keep the Omega.

Not much chance of that! The Encore is T/C's biggest bank account producer -- followed by the Omega.

Winchesters/CVAs do not allow anywhere near the same volume of loose powder as pellet powder. There are also loose powder and bullet grain restirctions in their owners manuals. These are entry-level rifles - not mid-level like T/C.