so many calibers, but can only afford one

[crow_feather]

The expense of a quality BPCR forces me to limit my experience to only one rifle for the present time.  I want to hunt big animals with the rifle, but I also want to shoot competition.  I have narrowed my choice of rifle to a Sharps, Shiloh Long Range Express or Pedersoli Long Range Target, both under 12.2 lbs.

My problem is the caliber of the rifle.  One person who has won in competition says to get a 45-70 or 40-65.  But he didn't say if it was because of recoil, or inherent accuracy of the caliber.  I would like to get something a bit different than the norm, maybe a little more powerful, but still have a rifle that is equal in competition with the above mentioned calibers.

I was looking at the 45-90, 45-120, 50-70, and 50-90 calibers.  I shoot a 375 H&H when I hunt and am not recoil shy. 

I have done a month of research but have not found much on the basic accuracy of the various Sharp's calibers.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.


C F

[ShortStake]

crow feather,

Welcome to the world of black powder cartridge rifles (BPCR) and the one single shooting hobby that may well consume you and your other shooting passions.

Best single first choice for entry level BPC Rifles is .45-70.  Reason being affordability of components, reloading dies and resale value.

Rifle action type and manufacturer are personal choices tempered with lots of discussion with other users, whether it be first hand or via the internet.

The .40-65 is a good second choice because of less recoil, inherent accuracy, affordability of components, reloading dies and being easily made from .45-70 brass.

Being able to handle .375 H&H recoil is a good correlation if one understands that the average BPCR silhouette match consumes about 60-70 rounds, including sighters, shoot-offs, etc.  The correlation ends there, as most persons do not shoot .375 H&H rifles anywhere the number of rounds consumed in the average BPCR Silhouette match.  Having shot many .375 H&H, .458 Win Mag, .45-70 and .40-65 rounds my experience is your shoulder and jaw will be much more confortable with a .45-70 or a .40-65.

Others may have differing opinions.

From the Land of Enchantment,

ShortStake     

[sharps4590]

I agree with Shortstake, for all the same reasons.  Get a 45-70 first. 

Given the quality of rifles you mentioned, accuracy can be as good with one caliber as another, for all intents and purposes.  I have and hunt with a 45-90 and it is a good caliber, but I wouldn't recommend it for competition.  The effects of recoil are accumulative and the -90 has enough recoil that it becomes uncomfortable after a long string.  I too own and shoot a 375 H & H and a 416 Rigby.  Both are plenty accurate but neither are match rifles.  I wouldn't want to shoot either prone or from a sitting position for 40-60 rounds.

The -120 can be a pain to work up a load for and the various 50's have a considerably more rainbow trajectory than the 40's or 45's.  When shooting a 50 cal. bullet heavy enough to be competitive recoil raises it's ugly head.

Bear in mind that the sights you need to shoot competition are too fine for most hunting applications, unless you are hunting in the more open terrain of the west and only during good weather.  Equally, a good hunting sight isn't fine enough for competitive target work.

Good luck and enjoy the journey!

Vic

[Lead pot]

CF.
Picking the caliber for the first BPCR is difficult.
For the first I would say the .45/70 will be a good choice. If you decide you dont like it it's easy to resell, and it is accurate and you can buy loaded ammo for it or if you decide you dont like shooting black powder you can use smokeless.
I shoot five different calibers, 40/65, .40/70ss, .45/70, .45/90, .50/90ss, don,t shoot the .45/120 any more, and I have a .44/90 sbn coming. The .40/70ss with a 420 gr bullet has the same sight elevation with in 3 points at 1000 yds as my .45-90 or .50-90ss with a 560 gr. 720 gr bullet has.
The .40-70ss and the .50-90 ss are my most accurately shooting rifles, but I like them all.
There is a little Lady, Mrs. Sidra Bagwell that shoots a .40-65 for Creedmoor 800-900-1000, and 1000 yd long range that took top place with it, and set a record with it at those ranges.

Kurt

[Lead pot]

I just responded to a PM for some Quigley target ranges on a nother site, and going through my Brains (sight setting book) and I started adding up the bullet drop with the three Shiloh's I had with me and found this interesting, and some of you might also find it interesting also.

........ the targets stay pretty close from year to year. Al might change the type of target but the distance stays close.
Here are some of the ranges and sight settings I used in 05.

For the .50 in yards. Using a 685 gr HP bullet with 106 grains of 1F 05 Goex MVA 103 buff soule sight.
349---62 points
411--- 75
390---68
525---97
600---109
787---147

105 grains of 1F 720 gr bullet.
349---62
411---72
390---68
525---97
600---111
787---151
It’s interesting that the 720 grain bullet held the same elevation with 1 grain less powder over a 685 grain bullet that has the same shape except it is a hollow point. Sight is a 103 MVA LR buff soule
The .45-90 using 83 gr of 1F goex using a 560 gr Brooks bullet.
349---68 points
411---75
390---73
525---99
600---111
787---148
.40-70 ss 60 gr 1.5 swiss using a 420 gr Brooks 1 cal. elliptical Radius round nose bullet. I used a the MVA 107 LR Vernier sight on the .40-70.
349---49 points
411---59
390---54
525---81
600---93
787---128.
It’s interesting how close in sight settings all three calibers with four different bullet weights are.

Kurt
_________________

[crow_feather]

Well, I wanted something a little bit different, and had I bought one prior to this time, it would have been a 45/90 or 45/110.  However, after reading what is on this thread and others and what has been written by other people, I will go with the norm and get a 45-70.  Thanks for the help

[crow_feather]

I did end up with a Pedersoli Sharps Competition Rifle in 45/70 calibre, with a 34 inch barrel as I couldn't get the shorter one.  Thanks for the help.  See you at the range.
C F

[Cottonwood]

I did end up with a Pedersoli Sharps Competition Rifle in 45/70 calibre, with a 34 inch barrel as I couldn't get the shorter one.  Thanks for the help.  See you at the range.
C F

crow_feather

You made a real good choice there.... The 45-70 will get you started into BPCR and its learning curve..... and believe me there is a curve.  Secondly the 34" barrel as well.  If you find yourself getting fouled out in the last couple of inches, you can always have it shortend 2" as well.
Here is a great write up by a guy I know Introduction to Black Powder Cartridge Loading  Chuck Raithel gives a step by step guide into loading the Black Powder Cartridge.  This used to be only in ADOBE PDF, but is Now In Microsoft Word Format.

I really don't think you will regret getting a 45-70 and when your ready you can also get it reamed up to 45-90, 45-100 or 45-110.

Visit my web-site.
Black Powder Chronicles and More

[crow_feather]

The Montanan 
I have read that, and thanks for the info.  I also went through the last 3 or 4 years of HANDLOADING and RIFLE Magazines.  Then went through the articles on paper patching, and some stuff on the guns of the buffalo hunters etc.  I believe in researching the subject.  Saves a lot of mistakes that other people made.  I plan on using only the true powder and hope to paper patch.  Since it's been getting to below 17 degrees at night, I'm waiting for a while to see how my loads are going to do.
 
I waivered between getting a rifle under 12 lbs 2 ozs.  But they are getting harder to find in the style that I wanted.  I hope that the NRA might change the rule on weight because of the situation.   Thanks again

C F