My smallest

[copdoc]

Here is something I build in shop class while checking a lathe we repaired.  It actually looks bigger than it is. It will it in the cap of the can.

[Double D]

Wow!! That is tiny!!

Now you see why we ask for the can.  The size can't be appreciated without something for scale

Does this  shoot?

[Cat Whisperer]

Wow!! That is tiny!!

Now you see why we ask for the can.  The size can't be appreciated without something for scale

Does this  shoot?

I guarentee that it'll shoot the SMALLEST one-shot groups of ALL the cannons/mortars on this board!

[Tropico]

The Cannon is cool..., but so is your can., I just noticed its an 80'th anniversary can 

[Evil Dog]

Learn something every day..... didn't know an "80th Anniversary" can existed.  If my cyphering is correct it would have come out around 1992.  Doe's that mean there was a "90th Anniversary" can in 2002 and might there be a "Centenial" can in 2012?  Something to look forward to should I live that long.

[copdoc]

The Cannon is cool..., but so is your can., I just noticed its an 80'th anniversary can 

Well it's my can and I didn't notice it. It is kind of cool,  I am going to save it.  Thanks,  It is an old can but BP does not seem to go bad if its dry.

Now you see why we ask for the can.  The size can't be appreciated without something for scale

Does this  shoot?

No I had to drill a hole through for the trunions.  i wish I had turned them now.  I had not planned on making one, just playing with the lathe and decided to finish it. The bore is 1mm I think.  I had to bore it with a dental tool and a Dremal as I did not have a drill bit that small.

 Yes you are very right about the can, A photo could make this look like full scale 6 pounder.  It actually is smaller than it looks in the picture with the can behind it.  We also built an onager the same size and used them on a Boy Scout Castle cake for one of the kids.

[Rickk]

If you ever tackle something like that again, check out  http://www.drillbitcity.com . They sell reasonably priced resharpened carbide drill bits in super-small sizes. The shanks are stepped up to a bigger size so they will fit in a normal sized chuck.

The smallest size they sell is a #85 (0.011). I would think that you would not need that small, even for the fuze hole   
Meal-D powder would probably be the powder granulation of choice...... especially for the ignition trail.

If you shot something that small, would you have to yell "shhhhhh!!!" instead of "FIRE" so that someone might hear it ? 

[copdoc]

If you shot something that small, would you have to yell "shhhhhh!!!" instead of "FIRE" so that someone might hear it ?

Are you makeing fun of my cannon??

I don't know how to chuck a 0.011" bit.  I'm not too sure I could even see it without my bifocals.
It is good to know about those smaller bits for other projects.

[Rickk]

nope... not making fun of it at all... it is quite an extreme piece... it is on the opposite side of the extreme that most people go, but extreme non-the-less.

If I tried something like that, one of my typical screwups would have turned the entire piece into dust, so it would not be something that I would ever even attempt. I know my limitations and they require plenty of margin for error.

I am just wondering what something like that would sound like and what the loading procedure would be.

As far as chucking a .011 bit, no problem... take a look at their bits... they all have big shanks... 1/8 " I think, so they will fit in a regular drill chuck.

[copdoc]

nope... not making fun of it at all... it is quite an extreme piece... it is on the opposite side of the extreme that most people go, but extreme non-the-less.

yell "shhhhhh!!!" instead of "FIRE"

I thought everybody would get a laugh.  I was actually looking for that type of response.

The good thing about something this small is that you could make it without a lathe.  Just chuck the bar stock in the drill and get a file.
Now anyone can afford a brass cannon.

I wish I had not drilled the hole for the trunions an we could have shot it.  Now I have to make another that shoots.

[CU_Cannon]

Next time someone makes fun of your tiny cannon just say you are “compensating”.

Anyone have any ideas what to use for fuse on something that small?

[copdoc]

Next time someone makes fun of your tiny cannon just say you are “compensating”.

that's what they said about the 24 pounder???

Anyone have any ideas what to use for fuse on something that small?

that will be a problem.
A hot straight pin will not go down the flash hole.  I don't remember the size but another very tiny dental instrument.

[Rickk]

could you solder the trunions in place and then redrill the bore, drilling right thru the trunion?

[jlimebrook]

Maybe a little piece of resistance wire poking into the breech which would get red hot when attached to a battery could serve as an igniter.

[copdoc]

could you solder the trunions in place and then redrill the bore, drilling right thru the trunion?

Maybe a little piece of resistance wire poking into the breech which would get red hot when attached to a battery could serve as an igniter.

Good ideas, I wish I had showed the bbl to you guys before I drilled it. Unfortunatly the trunion(s) is one piece that I drilled all the way through.  It is a piece of brazing wire.  I can not drill through to the flash hole because of this.  copdoc

[Double D]

Well simple make another

[GGaskill]

If the trunnion is well-soldered to the barrel with the whole joint filled with solder, you should be able to drill the bore through the trunnion without any difficulties developing down the line, especially if the bore is substantially smaller than the trunnion.  If it's not, you could make a larger trunnion and replace the existing one, then drill the bore through the new one.

[copdoc]

Man, you guys have given me a lot of work to do.  You are determined to make the Guiness book record on the smallest shooting cannon.  I'll (well we) will be famous.

Maybe a larger trunion and I could drill through it.  I finally got my own lathe, so now I'm dangerous.....er productive and could make another.  It is a small lathe mill combo so chucking a piece of 9" bar stock an making another 24 pounder is out.  One of my friends is going to make a better tool holder and then I can start.  I will have to epoxy it in the carriage as I could not make trunnion staps that small that would hold up. 

I may have to get some of those small bits.

[Rickk]

One thing to mention... take note of the drill length on the specs page at drill bit city. The more useful sizes have a .125" min drill portion length. I just checked thru mine... I have three different assortments. They all tended to have a usable length of about 3/16". Not sure if that is long enogh for your bore, but should be good for trunions and fuse holes.

[copdoc]

They all tended to have a usable length of about 3/16"

\

No worries, I'll take a 1" piece of 0.011" drill rod and braze it on.

[Double D]

No worries, I'll take a 1" piece of 0.011" drill rod and braze it on.

And we will expect pictures of that, taken through the lense of the microscope!

[copdoc]

thanks for all the suggestions.  I think I will siver soldier the trunions in the bbl and redrill it to shoot.  About 2-3 grains(particles) of FFG should do it.  Here is a close up opf the bbl.  This is about as well as I can do with this camera.

[Double D]

Let's see rule of thumb for windage is  1/40th... .011/40=0.000275 x 39 = 0.010725.  Please contact one of our sponsors I am sure they can make you a mould!!!   

[Rickk]

found on the web...

"A useful mnemonic for remembering the diameter of numbered birdshot is simply to subtract the shot size from 17. The resulting answer is the diameter of the shot in hundredths of an inch. For example, number 2 shot gives 17-2 = 15, meaning that the diameter of number 2 shot is 15/100 or 0.15". "

Not sure what your bore size will actually be, but you won't have to buy a mould, or even a 25# bag of shot, as in a single 1 ounce  #9 (.080")shotshell there are about 585 pellets. That and an ounce or so of 4fg powder should take you thru next summer.

You can print out DoubleD's smiley faces from the last post and use them for targets.

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell

[copdoc]

I'll make a  cast of the bore and mic it. Prob a #9 shot.   I was going to shoot blank charges. What was I thinking.   That is not like me.

 Lock and load.  We need volunteers for the different positions to man the gun and somebody has to make a tiny powder bag.  A streight pin will work for the rammer.  Picking the powder bag will be a challange (the demal bit I used will work) not to mention making a priming wire.

[Double D]

And don't forget  Switliks advice on starting loads, "start low ridiculously low"!!!!   

[copdoc]

"start low ridiculously low"!!!!

Now that is good advice.

Inspect throughly after proof testing is another good thing to do.

[Rickk]

If you have never done it, be careful about silver solder on brass... especially a piece that small. You don't want to melt your trunions while heating it up.

There are several silver solder formulations. Some melt at very low temperatures, and some melt at very high temperatures. We want to see this thing shoot, not melt.

Plain ole electronic solder (SN63) would do a nice job on brass. SN62 is an electronic "silver solder" (2%) that melts roughly at same temperature as SN63. It flows a tad better than SN63. You arn't going to need much strength in this, so you won't need a 50 kpsi material.

You can find silver solders that will melt anywhere from the mid 300 F range to almost 1500 degrees. The higher temperature ones typically are stonger, but you really arn't going to need it, and you don't want to melt the trunions trying to heat the barrel up hot enough for the solder to flow..

[copdoc]

thanks
I know very little about soldiering.  I do know there are low and high temp silver soldiers. One of the local gunsmiths offered to teach me how to use them.  I though about calling a jewler to ask about heat and soldier.  You are right, too much  heat and this could be a puddle on the floor.

I am pleased that you guy like this so much.

[Rickk]

if in doubt, just use SN63 (radio shack has it) and you should be fine... melts at 273 C.

If you have a hot plate, put it on there and get it as close to melting temp as possible. Then you will only be adding small amount of heat where you need it to melt solder. You can probably get by with a hotplate and a hefty (250-500 watt) soldering iron. No fire, little risk of melting anything.

Without a hotplate, you would need a pretty big soldering iron or a propane torch.

Get the entire item warm before you focus on the trunions and you will not have to overheat them as much. If you use propane (stay away from MAPP gas) you will probably have to try hard to screw it up. MAPP can melt brass. Propane.... not sure... it would be hard if it is possible at all.

Heat the piece, not the solder. When the piece is ready, apply the solder and the solder will melt.

You will probably get solder on places besides where you want it... it will come off with a file or sandpaper, but will take work.