turkish mauser

[ThudThumper]

i've been wanting an inexpensive, reliable 30 cal rifle for some time now.  i haven't been able to find any 30-06's or 308's in my price range lately, so when i happened upon a turkish 8mm mauser for $80 i grabbed it.  when i took it to the range, i noticed that it didn't kick nearly as much as expected, and i just reasoned it was because of the rifle's weight.  but, now that i checked the ballistic info on remington and winchester's websites, i realize that the cartridges are not on par with the 30-06, and are actually less powerful than the 30-30!  on top of that, the ballistic coefficient of the 8mm mauser is awful!

needless to say, i'm a bit disappointed.  when i start reloading (in the near future) will i be able to load the 8mm cartridges into the power range that i'm wanting?  the serials don't match on my mauser, and i don't have any head space gauges (yet).  am i insane to expect a 70 year old mauser to perform well?  would it be safe?

[stolivar]

with a good turk and handloads I am getting 3100 fps with no pressure signs on my 29 inch barrel.

 I shoot 150 grain Sierra bullets in it. It has been a very accurate and deer killing gun.

I get 5/8 inch 5 shot groups with it.

steve

[ThudThumper]

that makes me feel much better.  what pressure signs should i watch for?

excellent grouping, btw.

[Mikey]

Thud - you're quite correct about the US made 8mm ammo, it has less power than the 30-30, almost.  If you want to shoot new production ammo loaded to original mil-spec, then get yourself some Sellier and Bellot ammo.  New, non-corrosive, and accurate.  However, don't bother saving the brass for reloading unless you use european equipment and reloading supplies - the S&B is made to exacting euro specs and they don't quite match up to the US equipment or materials (primers especially). 

If you intend on reloading the get a supply of new Remington made brass and everything will work properly in your American made reloading equipment.  I just went through this with my Swedish made Husquavarna 98 in 8mm.  She would shoot the S&B mil-spec to under moa at 100 yds but would not shoot their hunting load, so I started reloading.  Used two bullets - a Nosler 200 gn Accubond because the bullet shape was the same as the mil-spec S&B and also used the Hornaday 195 gn soft point.  Both bullets over a Vitha Voury bookk load of N160 powder and both bullets grouped into the same holes at 100 m. 

The normal pressure signs you sould look for are primer flattening and hard extraction.  HTH.  Mikey.

[bluebayou]

The S&B 196 grain
                      Muzzle 100   200  300 YARDS
 Velocity (fps)    2592 2296 2034 1802
 Energy (ft. lbs.) 2923 2294 1801 1413

The Remington
 Bullet                                     Muzzle 100    200   300  400  500
Remington® Express® 170 SP CL 2360 1969 1622 1333 1123 997
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet                  Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 170 SP CL 2102 1463 993 671 476 375
 
The Remington 170 grain is putting along so that it doesn't blow up the unknown quality rifles I imagine.

[bbqsnbeer]

I just bought a Turk 03/38 as well , at a recent gunshow.
I've yet to fire it , but just to be careful , I'm gonna have the 'smithy take a look at it.
As far as ballistics go , I'm not really that  concerned .
It's the accuracy that counts.
Anyway, from what I see from the ballistics posted above , it has plenty of punch for deer hunting .
....here's mine after a varsol wipedown...

[ThudThumper]

yeah, maybe i bought it expecting too much.  it would definitely make an excellent hunting rifle, but for some reason i want to try and make it shoot sub-moa.  i could probably buy a new rifle and save time and money.

i stopped by the local gunshop this afternoon, and the gunsmith wants $35 to inspect the rifle.  seems a bit steep, since all he really needs to do is check the head space for me.  maybe i'll just keep it to plink with; i'm thinking about buying a h&r handi-rifle chambered in 7mm-08 to become my long range toy.

[Mikey]

Thud - you don't need a gunsmith to check the headspace on that turk.  If she didn't blow brass or split cases she is fine.  If accuracy is your game with that old 8mm, then get some of the S&B 196 gn Cutted Edge, soft point ammo.  It shoots great groups in every other 8mm I have except that Swedish 8.  Don't know why but that particular rifle does not like those particular loads - every other 8 I have loves them but not that Swede.  I would see how your turk shoots with the S&B ammo before you give up on it. 

Oh yeah, if you want to shoot oong range and the turk groups well for you at 100, then you can use it for longer ranges - I think it would smack a bunch harder downrange than the 7-08.  JMHO.  Mikey.

[ThudThumper]

thanks again, guys.  you've instilled a great deal of confidence towards this rifle.   

i'm not going to give up on it; i'm going to give it a thorough cleaning tonight and test it again tomorrow.  the sights seemed to be waaay off last week; it was consistently hitting way high and left.

also, i read somewhere (sorry, can't give credit since i don't remember where i saw it) that you can make a makeshift headspace gauge by taking a cartridge and sticking a small piece of masking tape on the back.  it supposedly has similar tolerances to a no-go gauge, and if it chambers then you should keep an eye on your loads.  if you put two pieces of masking tape and the cartridge chambers, it is basically the equivalent of a "field" gauge and has very dangerous head-spacing.

i am going to try some various factory ammo to see how it groups, once i get the sights on target.  i'm looking forward to reloading, and i've decided that if i can get 2 moa groups i'll be very, very happy.

oh, and mikey...i don't have to worry about increasing the load into the .308 range as long as my rifle functions well in the 30-30 range?  or were you just saying that as long as i continue to shoot what i've got i have nothing to worry about...

[Stan in SC]

The Turkish Mausers are fine weapons and capable of surprising accuracy.As the other poster advised if you havent had a problem so far then don't bother having headspace checked.You wanna make that old girl REALLY sing try to find some Turk ammo at a gunshow.It will clock about 2900 FPS.

Stan

[skippermdj]

US ammo is loaded VERY light, IIRC, because there were two versions of the 8x57 and the ammo manufacturers don't want to run the risk of somebody blowing up the old-model guns that were designed for the earlier version of the cartridge.

Your Turk should be compatible with full-power loads, which have comparable ballistics to the 30-06.  You may have to handload to get there, but it's worth it. 

There are several mauser actions that the Turks converted to the 8x57 caliber standard, and not all of them are the full-size M98 actiion/small-ring barrel variety.  It can't hurt to have a 'smith look at it, or go to the Brownells website and read their article "Turkish Mausers - things you should be aware of" which you can find in Benchtalk Articles at this url:  http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/newsletterarchive.aspx

[jack19512]

The Turkish Mausers are fine weapons and capable of surprising accuracy.

I have a 1893 Turkish Mauser and it is very accurate.  Shoots about 12 inches high at 100 yards but groups very well.  I am in the process of getting a taller front sight from Layne at Tennessee Gun Parts. 

[qajaq59]

Go for the best accuracy and wait for the right shot......
Then when you put an 8mm bullet thru both lungs that deer wont care how fast it's going.