Loading rimmed versions of auto cartridges

[Loader 3009]

I recently purchased a Taurus Stellar Tracker chambered for .45 ACP, knowing that the cartridge is exceptionally accurate when loaded correctly.  The gun shoots great but I am never content to leave well enough alone.  I wanted to try .45 Auto Rim because the full moon clips are a pain in the ass especially when you carry them in your hip pockets.

I ordered some Remington brass from Midway but found that the rim was too thick to allow the cylinder to rotate.  I needed to remove enough brass to allow the gun to function but not so much that it would leave the primer exposed.  How to do this?  I thought you would never ask.

The brass measured .895” overall with a rim thickness of .090”.  Approximately .015” had to go.  The problem:  How to remove an equal amount of material from each case without an expensive lathe.

The solution:  Use the 8” drill press in my workshop.  The first step is to raise the table of the drill press and rotate it about 15 degrees so you will have a solid surface to work on.  Set the table about 1 ¼” below the chuck to allow an empty case to be inserted with ease. Now insert an empty case into the chuck and gently tighten just enough to hold it when you remove your fingers.  Lower the case till it comes in contact with the table and allow it to be pushed into the chuck leaving about ¼” exposed. Now here’s the critical part, tighten the chuck on the case using your chuck key and while holding your case to the table, set your stop to allow about .020” further travel.  This will prove to be an exercise in trial and error.  Raise the chuck, turn on the press, place a sheet of 50 grit abrasive on the table, lower the case and grind away.  When you reach the stop in travel, remove the case and measure the OAL with your calipers.  If you need to remove more material reset your stop the appropriate amount.  The thickness of the sandpaper will affect your settings.  I have found that it takes about 45 seconds to remove .010” with my drill speed set on the lowest setting. Your drill speed will cause this time to vary.  Use a sheet of 150 grit paper inserted on top of your coarse paper to polish the case.

This operation will remove the headstamp and about half of the chamfer.  Correct OAL is .880”.  When you have reached this length, size prime and load.

Speaking of rimmed versions of auto pistol cartridges, the .38 S&W, when resized in a 9mm die, works just fine in those revolvers chambered for 9mm Federal.

You’re welcome.

ROUND GUNS FOREVER!

[Lead pot]

They work fine in my mod.25 smith.Are you sure you dont have a high primer or powder under the extractor,it dont take much.Lp.

[DonT]

Lead Pot & Loader 3009,

I use to do a lot of pin shooting and owned a number of S&W 25's.  In doing some research at that time, if memory serves me correctly, the Smith was designed to shoot either with moon clips or with Auto Rim rounds.  This gave some problems with some of the cheaper moon clips as they did not properly space the round and you would get situations where the primer would not ignite due to light hits because the base of the round was too far from the recoil shield due to an over thin moon clip.

It appears the tracker is designed to work only with moon clips which eliminates the extra clearance for the auto rims but also reduces the likelyhood of having a problem with a "thin" moon clip.

As far a getting the auto rims to work I am not sure how removing this small amount of brass effects the strength of the cartridge overall.  I guess if it was me personally I would look for someone with a small lathe (I am lucky I have a little 9" southbend) and buy a couple hundred rounds and have em all done.  You "might" be able to find a gunsmith, probably need to be one of the guys that does custom work, that would chuck up the cylinder in the lathe and remove enough of the back to get the AR to fit.  Courch they would also need to thin out the ejector and this might be a problem.

The full moon clips really aren't that bad to carry if you use the holders they sell for carrying speed loader like the HK brand that go right on your belt.  The other advantage with the full moon clips is that reloads are fast if you are using roundnose bullets.  You can't get much faster then those moon clips when you need to recharge 6 holes under stress, heck you can pretty much do it in the dark or with your eyes closed. Of course this is not important if the gun is just used for plinking.

I have really been considering one of these with the 4" barrel because I really liked the smith when I shot them and I have always been fond of the 45acp round as being a good stopper, accurate and readily available.  Drop me an email and would love to hear your overall opinion of the gun (good and bad as there is always a little of both) and how you like the porting if you have it.  Drop me an email if your so inclined.

Take Care and have a great & safe holiday season....
DonT :-)

[Loader 3009]

I guess I need to make a few things perfectly clear so you readers won't think that I am just some jerk with a drill press and a computer.

I have an engineering background and am well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of brass.  I have been loading and innovating for 38 years without a mishap.  Measure twice; cut once.

The Taurus has less clearance between cylinder and recoil shield than Smiths (less headspace), this contributes to accuracy.  This is one reason Contenders are so accurate,butI digress.

The .45 Auto Rim as manufactured by Remington has an ample amount of metal in the rim to allow the removal of 015" without sacrificing strength.  The case might separate but the rim will not blow.

There is sufficient rim thickness to allow the removal of .020+ without exposing the primer.

I devised the drill press method of doing this so those without a lathe can enjoy the inherent accuracy of this gun and cartridge.  We ain't all machinists.

The porting is more for looks than for function as Taurus recommends that you do not exceed 900 fps with this gun.  Porting does not help much with mild loads.

I load a 200 gr. cast SWC over 6.0 gr. of Win. 231.  A mild load in anybody's book.  Runs a little over 800 fps out of my gun.

The gun shoots 1" groups at 25 yds. day in and day out.  I have fired over 500 rounds of this ammo in my gun with no signs of trouble.

Yes, I have fired some hot loads in it.  They weren't as accurate so why do it?  Hot loads not only abuse your gun but also your hand.

Since this modified ammo was my idea I hereby dub it the .45 TORO and you fellers owe me a royalty on every round that you load.  That goes for you,too, Taurus International!

ROUND GUNS FOREVER![/u]

[Mikey]

Hay DonT:  If you are removing that much from the rim of a 45 Auto Rim, would it be any easier for you if you just shortened 45 Colt Brass.  You could do that with a trim die for the 45 ACP and possibly have the correct length brass and a rim thin enough to chamber in that taurus of yours.  

Just wonderin'.  Mikey.

[Loader 3009]

I haven't tried that as the "thinness" of the LC rim would adversely affect headspace (the secrecy to accuracy).  Furthermore, the LC rim probably lacks the diameter to be dependably ejected.  If it would work it would be a good way to give a second life to LC cases with split mouths.

I'll give it a try this weekend and get back to all of you.

[Mikey]

Loader:  I just read a write-up on your handgun in the American Rifleman.  A couple of interesting notes here:  (1) they didn't speak to the use of the 45 auto rim cartridge but, they did say that the Tracker preferred the Taurus Stellar full moon clips over some of the others - I wonder if the others weren't too thick and gave the pistol the same problems you encounter when you try the 45 Auto Rim cartridge.

The 45 Auto Rim was developed as an alternative to the 45 ACP round for use in those revolvers built for military use, like the 1917 Colt and S&W revolvers, the Webley conversions from 455 and maybe one or two others. I doubt the quality control was anything like it is in the Tracker and the rim might just be too thick overall.

The other thing they said was that there was a noticeable 'ledge' in each of the chambers where the 45 ACP cases would headspace on the case mouth.  

Could be that your 45 Auto Rim cases might be a hair long and don't seat as deeply as need be.  In that case, you could probably use a Trim die to get the correct case length for the cartridge and be able to use the 45 AR case.  Question:  when you drop the cases into the chamber, do they drop clean and bottom out on the inside of the rim or do they bottom out on the chamber ledge (or whatever it is called)??

The article mentioned that with the chamber ledge, you could shoot the revolver without the full moon clips, in an emergency, but ejecting would be difficult.  

I wonder if you just don't want to stock up on those Stellar Clips and or carry a few loose rounds somewhere if you need them in an emergency.  Mikey here.  

Also, a ps:  if you have a lathe available, why don't you cut back the inside of the rim (part before the case body) - that way you won't be creating any dangerous situations by cutting back the rim on the primer side.  Still Mikey.

[Loader 3009]

Mikey & All,
Yes, the cases bottom out on the forward edge ofthe rim.  They are actually shorter than ACP's.
Yes, you can fire the gun with ACPs and no moon clip, but you have to poke the empties out from the front.
The whole object of this exercise was to improve accuracy by eliminating excessive headspace.  It did.  Eliminating the moon clip was justa plus.
No. I don't have a lathe.  Furthermore, removing any metel from the front of the rim would only result in increasing the evil headspace.
Believe me, it works.
The Tracker is a great gun without messing with the ammo but you know my motto...."If it works, I can fix it."
This is the great part about reloading....you can always make it better.  The aftermarket suppliers will attest to this credo.

Loader 3009

PS
RE an earlier post concerning the use ot the .45 LC......won't work. the AutoRim's rim is about .160" thicker even after thinning.  Dat mean ol' headspace thing agin'.