Author Topic: Lee K31 Dies (Read 2383 times)

jh45gun · « **on:** December 06, 2006, 08:07:09 AM »

Just got done talking to Lee. Jerkface, Well the Lee dies are based on the Model 11 Now the good news is which makes our argueing a moot point is the Lee is going to come out with Dies for the K31. They said they should have them starting in a few weeks.

So while the dies will work they are addressing the issue that the K31 does have a different chamber and will make dies for the K31. While my old dies work I will buy a new set when they come out.

acloco · « **Reply #1 on:** December 06, 2006, 02:53:43 PM »

I guess I am kind of confused. On the K31 accuracy thread, you continued to post that your die will work for any Swiss chamber. Now you are going to buy a new set of dies because, quoting you....."....they are addressing the issue that the K31 does have a different chamber...."

Who is Jerkface?

jack19512 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 06, 2006, 04:58:58 PM »

Quote from: acloco on December 06, 2006, 02:53:43 PM

Who is Jerkface?

He is a member. That is the name he goes by.

jh45gun · « **Reply #3 on:** December 06, 2006, 08:32:18 PM »

Quote from: acloco on December 06, 2006, 02:53:43 PM

I guess I am kind of confused. On the K31 accuracy thread, you continued to post that your die will work for any Swiss chamber. Now you are going to buy a new set of dies because, quoting you....."....they are addressing the issue that the K31 does have a different chamber...."

Who is Jerkface?

Nothing to be confused about my dies will work and have worked as the folks who have loaded for years with the RCBS dies too. I never said it was wrong to use the Redding dies so if Lee makes a comparable die I will use it. I posted before that the K31 according to Parashooter's post has a different chamber but the other dies worked. So be it still if lee makes something a little better thats great. Lee is now giving us a choice which is great. I could still use my old dies and not have a problem with that they do work but like most of us if they make something better I will get it. My problem with the redding die issue was that those that said if you use your dies that is wrong as redding is the only die to use that is correct. My comments were as I saw it the older dies was making the ammo to GP11 specs which the Guns were made to shoot throw away milsurp ammo. So if my dies made ammo to them specs yea it may work the brass more but it still would make good ammo. Or we have the option of neck sizing inbetween. If they will make a new die I will buy it though I could get by with my old dies just fine. I posted what I posted after seeing others say they could use RCBS dies and Lee dies and still make good ammo though some may have had to adjust their reloading styles to make it work and keep good brass length. If this is a better die to do the job great. I will buy lee dies at 30 bucks a pop as I can normally afford them considering the Redding dies are twice as much if not more depending on caliber I just feel they are out of my budget and while they may make a great die I feel Lee does too for a better price so that is what I go by. I have never used RCBS dies though I would not be adverse to them if they made the only dies I had for a caliber and Hornady dies I had a bad problem with in 45/70 the decapping pin kept breaking. Switched to lee and never had a problem since loading for my 45/70. SO I stick with what I know works and Lee has worked well for me at a price I can afford. Redding according to some may be the Cadilac of dies but hey I drive a chevy so Lee works just fine for me.

jh45gun · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2006, 08:48:44 PM »

One more thing lots of guys have bought Lee or RCBS dies and never had a problem with loading for the K31. Others may have and had problems with misfires ect as they maybe sized the brass too much with the camover technique. I must have gotten it right because my ammo chambered and shot fine I loaded over 80 rounds with all of them sure fire. What I am going to check out also is to see if I can only buy the new full size resizing die since I already have a set for this caliber which should make a reasonable upgrade if they will sell individual dies and my current bullet seating die will work with the new resizing die. If not I will buy a new set.

jack19512 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 07, 2006, 01:26:17 AM »

All I know is that I have reloaded quite a bit of the K31 ammo so far and didn't know the Lee dies wouldn't work right until the other thread. I have reloaded some very good ammo I might add.

I just ordered me 4000 of the Berdan primers the other day and I will continue to reload the Swiss Berdan primed brass and save my 284 Winchester brass for when I can't get the Berdan primers.

As far as the dies goes I will continue to use the ones I have as I see no reason to change at this time. Even if I only get 3 or 4 loadings out of the Swiss brass I have enough of it to last me a lifetime.

acloco · « **Reply #6 on:** December 07, 2006, 04:28:19 AM »

Quote from jh45gun, "My comments were as I saw it the older dies was making the ammo to GP11 specs which the Guns were made to shoot throw away milsurp ammo."

This is EXACTLY what I am telling you. The milsurp ammo was not intended to be reloaded by the Swiss...some are reloading the Berdan primered brass.

1 - WE are going outside the norm and reloading for the K31.

2 - MOST of the dies currently on the market are sized to 1911 chambers, NOT K31 chambers.

Whatever bud....you proved once again why, REGARDLESS of rifle, caliber, etc, every reloader should use the correct tool for the job.

jh45gun · « **Reply #7 on:** December 07, 2006, 07:40:10 AM »

Quote from: acloco on December 07, 2006, 04:28:19 AM

Quote from jh45gun, "My comments were as I saw it the older dies was making the ammo to GP11 specs which the Guns were made to shoot throw away milsurp ammo."

This is EXACTLY what I am telling you. The milsurp ammo was not intended to be reloaded by the Swiss...some are reloading the Berdan primered brass.

1 - WE are going outside the norm and reloading for the K31.

2 - MOST of the dies currently on the market are sized to 1911 chambers, NOT K31 chambers.

Whatever bud....you proved once again why, REGARDLESS of rifle, caliber, etc, every reloader should use the correct tool for the job.

One thing you have to consider is that reloading has been a hobby that folks have had to adapt for years and some of the more talented folks made tools to help their hobby that they could not buy or maybe could not afford to buy if it was available. Others that reloaded for calibers that you could not buy dies for learned to adapt either other dies or used alternate loading methods to load their brass to keep on shooting those older and sometimes obsolete cartridges. Those that wild cat I suppose have to adapt too since their may not be dies for what they are doing. Bottom line is as long as you make safe reloads that is what counts and you may have to adapt to do so. Elmer Keith was a good one for that. As a side note for Jack I saw in one of Elmers books once about how he deprimed berdan primed ammo using a board with a hole in it to hold the brass and a pick to pry out the primer. When Lee comes out with their K31 dies that will be great as it gives us another choice and just curious how expensive are those Redding Dies I saw on one site some one quoted 100 bucks are they that much?

jh45gun · « **Reply #8 on:** December 07, 2006, 07:41:24 AM »

OK just talked to Lee again and they said it is cheaper just to buy the whole set than an individual die so that is what I will do. The guy told me yesterday it would be a few weeks now the lady today said it could be a bit longer then that so I am not sure when they will come out just that they have plans to do so. Maybe a calling campaign to show support will get them moving faster. Lee's number is 1 -262- 673 -3075

jack19512 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 07, 2006, 03:55:56 PM »

Quote from: jh45gun on December 07, 2006, 07:40:10 AM

As a side note for Jack I saw in one of Elmers books once about how he deprimed berdan primed ammo using a board with a hole in it to hold the brass and a pick to pry out the primer.

I saw a Berdan decapping tool that had a pick like end on it, can't remember who had it. I think it was around $100.00 but can't remember for sure.

Some people have given me a pretty hard time because of my views about reloading the Berdan primed brass but all I am trying to do is help them.

I have read a lot of posts about the subject stating anywhere from "you can't reload Berdan primed brass" to "you can but it takes special equipment" to "you can but it is real messy" to "you can but it's too much work" etc...etc...

It's what you want to make of it. I do it and I enjoy doing it. If I didn't I sure wouldn't have ordered me another 4000 Berdan primers I can tell you, especially with all of that .284 Winchester brass sitting under my reloading bench.

If you keep an open mind you can learn something no matter how much you think you know, if you walk around with a closed mind all you will hear is yourself.

acloco · « **Reply #10 on:** December 07, 2006, 04:38:56 PM »

Quote from: jh45gun on December 07, 2006, 07:40:10 AM

Quote from: acloco on December 07, 2006, 04:28:19 AM
Quote from jh45gun, "My comments were as I saw it the older dies was making the ammo to GP11 specs which the Guns were made to shoot throw away milsurp ammo."

This is EXACTLY what I am telling you. The milsurp ammo was not intended to be reloaded by the Swiss...some are reloading the Berdan primered brass.

1 - WE are going outside the norm and reloading for the K31.

2 - MOST of the dies currently on the market are sized to 1911 chambers, NOT K31 chambers.

Whatever bud....you proved once again why, REGARDLESS of rifle, caliber, etc, every reloader should use the correct tool for the job.

One thing you have to consider is that reloading has been a hobby that folks have had to adapt for years and some of the more talented folks made tools to help their hobby that they could not buy or maybe could not afford to buy if it was available. Others that reloaded for calibers that you could not buy dies for learned to adapt either other dies or used alternate loading methods to load their brass to keep on shooting those older and sometimes obsolete cartridges. Those that wild cat I suppose have to adapt too since their may not be dies for what they are doing. Bottom line is as long as you make safe reloads that is what counts and you may have to adapt to do so. Elmer Keith was a good one for that. As a side note for Jack I saw in one of Elmers books once about how he deprimed berdan primed ammo using a board with a hole in it to hold the brass and a pick to pry out the primer. When Lee comes out with their K31 dies that will be great as it gives us another choice and just curious how expensive are those Redding Dies I saw on one site some one quoted 100 bucks are they that much?

You are not comparing apples to apples. These are not wildcats. There was a time that wildcatters were prevalent. Now, even if the chamber was a wildcat, you can get somebody to make a set of dies for 100-200 now.

The other side of this is, the K31 is a widely distributed rifle in the U.S. now. ALL of the information is read on the internet, by everybody - experienced reloader to person "thinking" about getting into reloading. Need to be careful about what is posted, UNLESS, you post info indicating the who/what/when/why/etc.

Can you reload for K31's with any die on the market AND the loaded round be successful AND safe, EVERY TIME. Answer is NO.

Yes, you can come back to say "if setup properly, blah, blah".....that is not the case. MOST of the people that reload, do not know what "bump the shoulder 1 to 1 1/2" means, let alone, that they REALLY are taking life and limb in hand.

Again, use the correct tool for the job. In other words, use the correct die for the chamber you are reloading for.

jh45gun · « **Reply #11 on:** December 07, 2006, 05:58:24 PM »

Your using the use the correct tool for the job arguement because you think Redding is the only way to go. Tell that to every one who uses Lee and RCBS and any one else who uses dies based on the 11 case and they will have plenty of arguements for you. Since the K31 used the GP11 and that is the size used in the 1911 there is no wrong answer here. Redding dies do work the brass less and the new Lee dies will do the same. Still the other dies do an acceptable job in making safe loads for the K31 and if some one wants to sacrafice a load or two on their brass I guess that is their business. Again you take my post and try to shred it as I was stating back when you could not buy dies for 200 dollars ect and you know that. My whole point was folks have been loading ammo for years with simple tools and the loads work. The Lee Loader tool was a prime example of that and many made loads using more primitive methods then the Lee Loader tool but on the same principle.

jack19512 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 08, 2006, 03:22:17 AM »

I am new to reloading myself and I have a lot to learn but I sure am interested to see someone with the Redding dies or someone to purchase the new Lee dies when they come out and load better ammo than I do.

I might agree that maybe the dies that I have now might not be the very best but they appear to work and seem to work very well. The broken drill bit that I use on the Berdan primed 7.5X55 Swiss cases may not be the prettiest or most expensive tool but it works and it works very well.

I have an open mind right now, I really do want to learn. My $$$ are hard to come by sometimes, someone explain to me why I should buy new dies for the 7.5X55 Swiss and if you don't care explain to me in simple terms what the new dies will do for me that the other dies won't. Except the prolonging of the case life, I understand that part.

acloco · « **Reply #13 on:** December 08, 2006, 05:24:52 AM »

jh45gun - I am done arguing with you.

You are WRONG. The only dies made FOR the K31 chamber, are the Redding Dies.

Will other dies work, yes...but, you run the risk of shortened brass life, case neck splits when firing, and no fires.

You ARE oversizing your cases with other brands of dies.

You ARE running the risk of neck/case splits

You ARE running the risk of no fires.

Casull · « **Reply #14 on:** December 08, 2006, 06:23:24 AM »

Quote

You ARE running the risk of neck/case splits

You ARE running the risk of no fires.

Since the non-Redding dies size to GP11 specs, then aren't you risking neck/case splits and no fires when using the GP11 ammo in a K31? Yes you probably shorten case life a little, but I think your other arguments are baseless.

acloco · « **Reply #15 on:** December 08, 2006, 07:06:41 AM »

Quote from: Casull on December 08, 2006, 06:23:24 AM

Quote
You ARE running the risk of neck/case splits

You ARE running the risk of no fires.

Since the non-Redding dies size to GP11 specs, then aren't you risking neck/case splits and no fires when using the GP11 ammo in a K31? Yes you probably shorten case life a little, but I think your other arguments are baseless.

Actually, I don't agree with you. You have already fired a case in a K31 chamber - brass has been expanded. You resize back to GP11 standard size - just crushed the case. Reload & fire again.

Check here...this may or may not be the problem with this case.

http://p083.ezboard.com/ftheswissriflesdotcommessageboardfrm11.showMessage?topicID=639.topic

jh45gun · « **Reply #16 on:** December 08, 2006, 07:42:42 AM »

There are too many folks using dies like lee and RCBS making good ammo until they have read these threads about Redding dies or the new Lee dies felt they were using the right tool as they are getting good reloads. Most of the guys I have read on the net are getting many loadings with out no sign of brass failure. Yes I will buy the new Lee dies my choice but I do not feel that my old dies cannot do the job. Like Peirre and Parashooter stated it is all about proper set up and look at the brass numbers they have reloaded. YOu do not crush the case do not know where you get that from. The worst is maybe a slightly less case life and you may have to trim more which you do for most cases anyway. Glad your through argueing with me

and I am not wrong as the dies work to make safe loads.

jh45gun · « **Reply #17 on:** December 08, 2006, 07:56:07 AM »

Quote from: acloco on December 08, 2006, 07:06:41 AM

Quote from: Casull on December 08, 2006, 06:23:24 AM
Quote
You ARE running the risk of neck/case splits

You ARE running the risk of no fires.

Since the non-Redding dies size to GP11 specs, then aren't you risking neck/case splits and no fires when using the GP11 ammo in a K31? Yes you probably shorten case life a little, but I think your other arguments are baseless.

Actually, I don't agree with you. You have already fired a case in a K31 chamber - brass has been expanded. You resize back to GP11 standard size - just crushed the case. Reload & fire again.

Check here...this may or may not be the problem with this case.

http://p083.ezboard.com/ftheswissriflesdotcommessageboardfrm11.showMessage?topicID=639.topic

Any brand of brass can have a few that may fail and I have heard on other sites of Privi brass having problems like primer holes being oversize. I find that 284 brass is better.

acloco · « **Reply #18 on:** December 08, 2006, 09:19:27 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun on December 08, 2006, 07:42:42 AM

There are too many folks using dies like lee and RCBS making good ammo until they have read these threads about Redding dies or the new Lee dies felt they were using the right tool as they are getting good reloads. Most of the guys I have read on the net are getting many loadings with out no sign of brass failure. Yes I will buy the new Lee dies my choice but I do not feel that my old dies cannot do the job. Like Peirre and Parashooter stated it is all about proper set up and look at the brass numbers they have reloaded. YOu do not crush the case do not know where you get that from. The worst is maybe a slightly less case life and you may have to trim more which you do for most cases anyway. Glad your through argueing with me and I am not wrong as the dies work to make safe loads.

LOL!

Did you read the other thread on swiss rifle?

Sorry...the worst is not reduced case life. The worst is a ruptured case on a rifle with a chamber that is not drilled to release gas in case of a case rupture.

jh45gun · « **Reply #19 on:** December 08, 2006, 12:26:58 PM »

Yea I read it and there is no proof it was the dies it very well could have been the case which in that case it would not matter what dies you use. If the Swiss did not change the case for the K31 from the 1911 and the other dies make the case to that specs it cannot be all that wrong. You know any case and dies can be off if they are not set up right.

jack19512 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 08, 2006, 05:25:10 PM »

Myself, I was quite content with my 7.5X55 reloads before this thread come along. To be honest I am still quite content and as of right now, or until someone can explain to me what the new dies will do that my old ones do not I will continue using them.

Other than the shortened case life is there no one that wants to explain this to me.

There is mention of misfires but I have reloaded and shot quite a few rounds through my K31 and have yet to have the first misfire.

I tell you what I will do. I will pick out a case that has already been reloaded by me and mark it. I will continue to reload this case every time I reload for my K31. I want to see for myself just how many times this case can be reloaded.

jgalar · « **Reply #21 on:** December 08, 2006, 05:52:07 PM »

I've been following these two threads for awhile now and guess I will put my two cents in.

I size 284 Winchester using the Lee full length die.

After the first firing I only use the Lee collet die. I have no problems chambering the reloaded rounds. I have 2 K31s and keep the brass separated for each rifle.

According to some of the posts you can't use the collet die or any other die except one from a particular maker - BS!

I have no desire to reload berden primed swiss cases but if you do that is cool with me.

There is more than one way to reload a cartridge. Whatever works for you is fine with me, just don't feed me the cr@p that I have to do it your way!!!

jh45gun · « **Reply #22 on:** December 08, 2006, 08:27:06 PM »

Quote from: jgalar on December 08, 2006, 05:52:07 PM

I've been following these two threads for awhile now and guess I will put my two cents in.

I size 284 Winchester using the Lee full length die.

After the first firing I only use the Lee collet die. I have no problems chambering the reloaded rounds. I have 2 K31s and keep the brass separated for each rifle.

According to some of the posts you can't use the collet die or any other die except one from a particular maker - BS!

I have no desire to reload berden primed swiss cases but if you do that is cool with me.

There is more than one way to reload a cartridge. Whatever works for you is fine with me, just don't feed me the cr@p that I have to do it your way!!!

Well said!

acloco · « **Reply #23 on:** December 09, 2006, 03:06:28 PM »

Quote from: jgalar on December 08, 2006, 05:52:07 PM

I've been following these two threads for awhile now and guess I will put my two cents in.

I size 284 Winchester using the Lee full length die.

After the first firing I only use the Lee collet die. I have no problems chambering the reloaded rounds. I have 2 K31s and keep the brass separated for each rifle.

According to some of the posts you can't use the collet die or any other die except one from a particular maker - BS!

I have no desire to reload berden primed swiss cases but if you do that is cool with me.

There is more than one way to reload a cartridge. Whatever works for you is fine with me, just don't feed me the cr@p that I have to do it your way!!!

As I indicated before, you need to be careful about what you post on the net. EVERYBODY reads it. From absolute beginner to full on reloader.

Safety first ladies, safety first.

jh45gun · « **Reply #24 on:** December 09, 2006, 06:19:15 PM »

I see nothing wrong with Jgalar's post.

jh45gun · « **Reply #25 on:** December 09, 2006, 06:20:52 PM »

Quote from: jack19512 on December 08, 2006, 05:25:10 PM

Myself, I was quite content with my 7.5X55 reloads before this thread come along. To be honest I am still quite content and as of right now, or until someone can explain to me what the new dies will do that my old ones do not I will continue using them.

Other than the shortened case life is there no one that wants to explain this to me. There is mention of misfires but I have reloaded and shot quite a few rounds through my K31 and have yet to have the first misfire.

I tell you what I will do. I will pick out a case that has already been reloaded by me and mark it. I will continue to reload this case every time I reload for my K31. I want to see for myself just how many times this case can be reloaded.

Sounds Good Jack.

RaySendero · « **Reply #26 on:** December 10, 2006, 02:16:37 AM »

guys, jh45gun, acloco,

I don't think y'all realize how hard it is to follow this thread. I really don't understand - Have been reloading for many years; reloading the 7.5x55 with Lee dies for 3 years. Let's start over, Help me to understand your positions.

I'll start another thread, post my measurements of resized and fired cases and a target.

Thanks ahead of time

jerkface11 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 10, 2006, 07:48:41 AM »

Raysendero the problem with the lee dies is that they are cut for the k11 chamber not the k31 chamber. Which in the case of the 3 k31's i have experience with means resizing is extremely difficult since the brass is being overworked. Whereas the redding dies are cut for the k31 chamber.

jh45gun · « **Reply #28 on:** December 10, 2006, 09:43:39 AM »

Quote from: jerkface11 on December 10, 2006, 07:48:41 AM

Raysendero the problem with the lee dies is that they are cut for the k11 chamber not the k31 chamber. Which in the case of the 3 k31's i have experience with means resizing is extremely difficult since the brass is being overworked. Whereas the redding dies are cut for the k31 chamber.

You are overstating it as the brass is not hard to size at all with Lee dies nothing difficult about it and I use a hand press and I have no problems sizing the brass nor did I have any problems sizing the 284 brass using the hand press. If the Swiss would have figured there was a problem they would have changed the ammo for the K31 size chamber yet they left it alone. Yea I know they did not plan on reloading but then no milsurp rifle was made for reloading. Yet folks reload for all of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing wrong with what your doing Ray and if your getting good reloads no problem I just posted about the new dies as Lee does realize now that there are two different chambers yet the old dies will work as you well know.

acloco · « **Reply #29 on:** December 10, 2006, 10:09:57 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun on December 10, 2006, 09:43:39 AM

Quote from: jerkface11 on December 10, 2006, 07:48:41 AM
Raysendero the problem with the lee dies is that they are cut for the k11 chamber not the k31 chamber. Which in the case of the 3 k31's i have experience with means resizing is extremely difficult since the brass is being overworked. Whereas the redding dies are cut for the k31 chamber.

You are overstating it as the brass is not hard to size at all with Lee dies nothing difficult about it and I use a hand press and I have no problems sizing the brass nor did I have any problems sizing the 284 brass using the hand press. If the Swiss would have figured there was a problem they would have changed the ammo for the K31 size chamber yet they left it alone. Yea I know they did not plan on reloading but then no milsurp rifle was made for reloading. Yet folks reload for all of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing wrong with what your doing Ray and if your getting good reloads no problem I just posted about the new dies as Lee does realize now that there are two different chambers yet the old dies will work as you well know.

jh45gun - but you are in the reloading category of higher level of experience. Measure a fired case from your K31 at the point just below the shoulder. Resize the case in your hand press and remeasure again. I bet you are barely bumping the shoulder.