Author Topic: questioning the convertable concept...? (Read 2706 times)

Lee Robinson · « **on:** December 11, 2006, 03:53:14 AM »

Help me out here...I see a lot of threads talking about having 2 or more cylinders in a single gun...and I am somewhat baffled everytime I read it. I could understand a 357 mag and a 38 being shot out of the same gun I guess, but people have done this for years without extra cylinders and still get good accuracy with both rounds from a single cylinder. So, my question is this...unless one is shooting competition or something and simply wants to use the same gun/feel...why the extra cylinders?

If you have a 45 colt, why shoot the ACP or vise-versa?

In a 454, does one need the 45 colt cylinder to shoot 45 colt ammo? And if so, why bother with 45 colt...why not just load down 454 to 45 colt load specs? The cost of the cylinder would buy a lot of bullets.

I am not saying one should do this...because by all means I have nothing against it. I just don't get it.

slabsides · « **Reply #1 on:** December 11, 2006, 04:24:58 AM »

The idea of the Ruger convertible took off during a time when, as I recall, there was a great deal of inexpensive surplus handgun fodder on the market. The concept has never set the handgunning world on fire, but those of us who have the guns, like them.
I got mine sort of by accident...wanted a .45 revolver, found this convertible. I've enjoyed shooting it with moderately stout Long Colt loads, but my first intent was to be able to use the large supply of ACP brass I had accumulated from target panning, in a vehicle that didn't fling empties hither and yon. The strength of the gun recommended it as well...I load ACP's to a level that I would not inflict on my target-grade auto, with its lightened slide and softball recoil spring setup.
I agree that the .357/9mm makes little sense...but then, suppose some guy has a bushel of empty nines at his disposal? Good plinking, using lighter bullets, less powder. Economical.

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 11, 2006, 09:43:38 AM »

As you mentioned in most cases shorter than the cartridge that is chambered for can be used without a problem but the extra cylinder most often allows the use of RIMLESS ammunition of similar caliber in a gun designed for RIMED ammunition. As mentioned the driving factor was low cost surplus ammo. I myself would like to have a cylinder for one of Gary Reeders 41 caliber wildcats (necked down 44 mag) for use in my existing 41 mag blackhawk. it would just add a bit of versatility without having to buy an extra gun.

Bullseye · « **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2006, 11:01:01 AM »

I don't understand it and I have owned one of them. I owned a Ruger Single Six Convertable. The 22mags shot to a different POI than 22lr so the sights were only correct for one caliber at a time. I found that the 22lr cylinder stayed on the gun and the 22MAg cylinder stayed in the safe.

RNettles · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2006, 06:02:12 PM »

I have the Ruger BN-36X. I bought it so I could shoot .357 and 38 Special. But I also have a Ruger P95DPR 9mm Semi-Auto... It was the "cheap" ammo that fueled my decision... and by the way, at 25 yards POI is the same on all 3 calibers, ±2". I use different sight pictures, depending on what I have loaded at the time. The .357Mag is dead on at 85 yards.

Swampman · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2006, 04:06:44 AM »

.38 Specials are very cheap at Walmart. I don't understand the convertable concept. It they cost the same with the extra cylinder I'd probably buy one.

RNettles · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2006, 09:06:56 AM »

The second cylinder lets you shoot the smaller diameter cased 9mm through the gun... the 357 mag and 38 spc case are a tad larger diameter...

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2006, 10:56:35 AM »

I understand that part, I don't understand why anyone would want to.

RNettles · « **Reply #8 on:** December 13, 2006, 11:03:25 AM »

It's cheap practice... a box of 100 X WWB 115 9mm at Wally World is $11.87 +tax.

2 dogs · « **Reply #9 on:** December 13, 2006, 01:48:12 PM »

One never knows when lean times may come again. One may inherit a barrel of 45 acp or 9mm. One may just like to pull the trigger. Because one CAN. Why not?

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** December 13, 2006, 02:05:41 PM »

Why not use cartridges designed for revolvers that shoot to point of aim? Why practice with ammo that doesn't? No further comment....I still don't understand the concept.

RNettles · « **Reply #11 on:** December 13, 2006, 04:46:17 PM »

Personally I use the 9mm to practice trigger control, live drawl, grip control and balance control... very cheap rounds for practice. I have learned different sight pictures for 38 Special, 38 special +P, 357 magnum, 9mm 115...

Slufoot · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2006, 12:15:51 AM »

I've got two Ruger Vaqueros that have dual cyclinders, they are 40S&W and 38-40Win.
There is a HUGE cost difference between these two cartridges. I bought these revolvers for the 38-40 chambering but I have shot WAY more 40S&W's becuase of cost.
Even if you reload, which I do, there is still a big savings by shooting the 40's. Once fired 40 brass is cheap, 38-40 brass will cost you a pretty penny and the 40 uses alot less powder.
I have a load for each cartridge that shoots to the same point of aim.

Good Shooting!
Slufoot

44 Man · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2006, 08:15:04 AM »

If you have an adjustable sight revolver, the POA think can be dealt with easily, but if not, it can become a frustration. 44 sply and 44-40 DO NOT shoot anywhere near the same POA. Likewise with 45 acp and 45 colt. You could load either of them to hit the same POA but there again, that kind of defeats the purpose of the convertable. It did solve one problem for me though. I had an early SAA clone that shot about 6" high at 25 yds (as many old colts did) with 250 gr .45 colt bullets with it's fixed sights. The front sight was too short to get POA and POI together. Enter the .45 acp cylinder and suprise; the gun shot .45 acp to POA! Of course I could have loaded the .45 colt brass with 185/200 gr bullets and accomplished the same, but it was just nicer to drop the acp cylinder into the gun. I actually ended up selling that gun because of not being able to shoot .45 colt where I wanted it. Should have kept it as it was a beautiful fully engraved gun, and had the front sight changed but I did not. Regrets and inexperience. 44 Man.

mt3030 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2006, 05:54:58 PM »

I have owned dual cylindered Blackhawk Rugers in 357/9mm and 45Colt/45ACP. I got started at this when I was on active duty and had large volumes of "surplus" 45ACP and 9mm ammo available. Over the years the 357 was used less and less and finally got traded. But since I shoot several 1911s, the Blackhawk OM in ACP also got used. I got tired of changing the sights, so found a second Blackhawk convertible. Now the OM wears the ACP cylinder, the newer Bisley wears it's 45 Colt cylinder. (I think the Bisley handles the heavier recoil better.) I know there are many shooters who do not understand this concept. But, Hay- This is a hobby. Do whatever blows your skirt up.

unspellable · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2006, 08:07:31 AM »

I have the Blackhawk in 9 mm/357 and 45ACP/45 Colt just for the h**l of it since they don't cost that much more with the extra cylinder.

I have a S&W in 22LR/22 Mag, here the 22 Mag costs a lot more but you want the extra horsepower on the odd occasion.

I also have a S&W in 357 Mag/ 357-44 B&D. The objective was really to have a 357-44, but that's a wildcat so by keeping the original 357 cylinder I haven't hurt the resale value.

wilded · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2006, 07:10:55 AM »

I have a new in the felt bag and box Ruger New model Blackhawk/old model vaquero 45 ACP cylinder I would sell or consider trades. This should be fitted by a competent gunsmith. It has never been fired. Ed (wilded@austin.rr.com)

Sverre A. · « **Reply #17 on:** December 24, 2006, 11:23:50 AM »

"I don't understand it and I have owned one of them. I owned a Ruger Single Six Convertable. The 22mags shot to a different POI than 22lr so the sights were only correct for one caliber at a time. I found that the 22lr cylinder stayed on the gun and the 22MAg cylinder stayed in the safe."

I suppose it can be different from gun to gun.

My S. Six with 22 Mag. is 1" high, and 0,25" to the left at 25 yds- - when my LR is sighted in 2" high.

georgeld · « **Reply #18 on:** December 24, 2006, 06:03:51 PM »

I have always wanted a .45 Colt and never could afford it being married with all that expense. Since she died 3yrs ago I've been buying guns, trying to get a new one nearly every month, but, not quite making that goal. This summer I did get a .45 conv. I've had a five gallon bucket of acp brass and keep adding to it every trip to the range. Have had a hell of a time finding Colt brass and refuse to pay the going price of new for my use. Most of which is plinking cast bullets.

That's my reason for getting the conv. Thing that gripes me is they don't sell the conv. in the 7 1/2-8" barrels I want, only the 4 1/2 and 5 1/2". I got the 5 1/2" and am trying to find a longer one to replace it with. Wrote the factory about three weeks ago about it and have yet to get a reply. Am hoping it'll come most any day now. But, with the holidays expect sometime in mid Jan they'll get it sent.

Slufoot: Hey man, you telling me they've got a .40 cal cyl??? Is that only in the Vaquero, or can they be had in the blackhawk too? That's something I've wanted and tried to find for a long time is a wheel gun in .40.

I fully intend to get a 9mm/357 conv soon as I can finance it. but, have other things to buy with the little funding available, so that's going to wait til the middle of this coming year. Again, I have a bunch of 38's and buckets full of 9's, but, only a couple gallons of 357's. When I had a 9 a few yrs ago I loaded up about 7 gallons of plinkers for it, so I'm just waiting til I get another one.

I really don't like autos, much prefer revolvers and with the longer barrels too. I shoot over a thousand rounds a week, every week. The only way I can afford to do that is by casting my own. With Lee six hole molds I can produce them about fast enough to keep up. In two or three three hour sessions I can fill a two gallon bucket with cast bullets. Now that it's winter again, it's time to get started casting many more. Especially since I'm about out of powder now and can't load 'em up. The next big purchase will be powder. But, I ordered another new gun Saturday, so that's gotta wait til Feb. A vicious circle.

Merry Christmas everyone, wish you the best.

StrawHat · « **Reply #19 on:** December 29, 2006, 03:15:15 AM »

I enjoyed my clone 45LC/ACP but for a different reason than what I see listed here.

My brother would load light for his 1911 target pistol. A couple of times he would load to light ot work the slide. Voila, an ACP cylinder in a SAA didn't care how the slide didn't work.

Sometimes I got to keep the brass.

Of course a S&W 25-2 or similar would work as well.

2 dogs · « **Reply #20 on:** December 29, 2006, 11:55:09 AM »

Jim Stroh at Alpha Precision makes a beautiful interchangeable blade front that would make these POI problems go away simply by changing blades.....

COLT45 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2007, 08:55:11 PM »

I have a Ruger Blackhawk .357/9mm convertable---9mm ammo is cheap--12 to 14 cents around--115 gr ball is about $22.00 a hundred at the local store. At Midway Rem 115 gr is $6.40 a hundred plus s&h charges then there is the primer and powder and my time -it's not worth it to me to reload 9mm. As to sighting in---no problem -windage is the same-elevation is a few clicks. I keep a cheat sheet in my range bag so I do not have to remember the number of clicks either way. Once the gun is sited in for elevation-screw the sight down to the bottom and count the clicks.- Go up the same number of clicks and your on.This way you don't have to remember the sight setting for the last time you shot the gun.--I do this alot for Cowboy matches -rifle- and the elevation will change for 50 or 100 yd targets.

Slufoot · « **Reply #22 on:** January 09, 2007, 12:14:44 PM »

Hello georgeld, sorry for getting back to you so late on this post. I haven't checked it in a few days.

"Slufoot: Hey man, you telling me they've got a .40 cal cyl??? Is that only in the Vaquero, or can they be had in the blackhawk too? That's something I've wanted and tried to find for a long time is a wheel gun in .40."

The two revolvers I've got were made exclusively for Davidson's. They are polished stainless steel Ruger Vaqueros. One is a 4.625" barrel and the other is a 5.5" barrel. These are the only variations that they offered these guns in. The dual cylinders are chambered 38-40 Win. and 40 S&W.

About a year or two ago there was someone who ran an ad in the Gun List advertising Ruger Vaqueros with only one cylinder chambered in 40S&W. I'm not sure of the distributor that had Ruger to make these for them.

Good Shooting!
Slufoot

Old Griz · « **Reply #23 on:** January 13, 2007, 01:29:18 PM »

I'll try to keep it simple for those who can't understand it.

Wolf. Cheap Russian 9mm ammo. Cheaper than .38s, hits same place. Shoots just fine, not everyone reloads.

Plinking. Shooting for fun and practice.

Ruger Convertible + cheap ammo = fun time shooting.

It ain't rocket science.

Swampman · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2007, 02:34:56 PM »

It isn't even science to use something it wasn't designed for. It's call jury riggin'.

Old Griz · « **Reply #25 on:** January 14, 2007, 10:28:11 AM »

Only if it doesn't work, but in this case, it works great.

Why are you trying so hard to find fault with it? Anyone who buys one does so for cheap fun practice and plinking. It's not going to be a "target pistol" with 9mm ammo, but it's sure good enough to hit CAS targets, and it will sure kill any tin can at reasonable ranges. If ya gotta put something in a nice small hole, use the other cylinder with .357 ammo. What could be more versatile? If you want pure perfection, go buy a FA83! Oh wait . . . they have multiple cylinders, too. Never mind.

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2007, 11:10:17 AM »

"Why are you trying so hard to find fault with it?"

I'm not trying at all. I just said I don't understand it. I've been trying to understand it for 30+ years.

I had a FA83, I didn't like it. After months of trying, I finally sold it for about 1/2 what I paid for it.

"Perfection is the enemy of good enough"

Kywoodwrkr · « **Reply #27 on:** January 15, 2007, 10:09:17 AM »

Then Ruger did not make a blue 38-40 cylinder?
The raeson I ask is I have a Ruger 41 magnum.
I saw a "Ruger" 38-40 cylinder for sale so bought it.
41 is still NIB so have not tried to put the second cylinder even in to see if it indexes and is timed correctly and etc.
Bought the cylinder on a whim, always looking for something to build up.
However if Ruger never made blue 38-40s, then this can't be a Ruger cylinder.
Do Ruger cylinders have an identifying mark on them somewhere?
Thanks.
DaveP kywoodwrkr

Swampman · « **Reply #28 on:** January 15, 2007, 10:42:11 AM »

Ruger made a blued .38-40 convertable. It was .38-40 & 10MM I believe. Neither caliber inspires confidence.

Slufoot · « **Reply #29 on:** January 15, 2007, 01:42:38 PM »

Kywoodwrkr,
Swampman is right. Several years ago Ruger made a special run of Blackhawks for a firearms distributor called Buckeye Sports. These convertable Blackhawks were blued and came in 38-40 Win. and 10mm.
They also had Ruger make them in 32-20/32H&R Mag.

Good Shooting!
Slufoot