TC sold to S&W

[spinafish]

From the retail side of things I think it will be a good thing.  S&W produced no products that directly compete with what T/C produces.  All of S&W's long guns in the past have been produced by Howa or others and sold under the S&W name..same with their knives, holsters, ammo and such. S&W have stated they wanted someone who made had the capacity to make rifle barrels.

Want to see some aqusitions in the shooting world that worked out okay?  Look at the ATK Brand s and Lyman.  US Repeating Arms has bit the dust and most of the new long arms out there are produced in Europe or South American.  I am not buy American only...but I will buy American with top quaility and a competitive price point

[sr sawyer]

I believe a few years ago the NRA was upset with S&W for cowering down in the front of the possibilty of corporate lawsuits
against firearm manufactures.  Without a little research I cannot referecne the complete issue but there are some out there with better memory than I now have.  This issue with S&W still sticks in my mind and since I have bought TC products since the mid '70s and have been pleased with all my purchases it is my personal opinion this is not good for TC users and owners. 

[1marty]

It appears S&W wants to expand into the ML part of the industry, which has grown in popularity as some states especially in a surbaban sprawl ban center firing firearms. In addition, TC has been noted for its quality long guns.
Employee loyalty. After being involved in many corporate acquisitions the employee is looked upon as a piece of machinary and how much "it" contributes to the bottom line.  Excuse me for being blunt but anyone who thinks by being "loyal" will somehow equate to job security is a jerk.

[spinafish]

SR Swayer, The OLD S & W did bow to some pressure...actually alot of pressure from the extremely anti-gun Clinton Adminstration.  That S&W was owned by a group out of Merry Ole Enland...all gun manufacturers were under the gun so to speak with the Clinton administration...our own dear ole Mr.Ruger proposed the large capacity magazine ban to get them off the semi-auto band wagon..wanted to save the sell of Mini-14-s and Mini-30's.  the S&W were are discussing today is altogether different group of folks.  The Bush administration came and nixed all those stupid law suits that the CA had drummed up.  And with the Dems in control again its going to take some tough suits in the right positions in these gun companies to keep the wolves at bay, they have not had to worry about in 8 years.

[Sourdough]

I am a solid T/C owner, I own a TCR/Encore/Contender/Hawken.  I have multiple barrels for all but the Hawken.  I love all my TCs.  I own two S&Ws, a 12ga shotgun and an old model K .357.    In the last three years I have seen three new S&W pistols that had the barrels blow off.  These were revolvers, and the barrel came off where the threads end that screw it into the frame.  I personelly saw all three of these guns.  One was shooting handloads, the other two were shooting factory loads.  Therefore I am not impressed with the quality of the new S&W guns.  I feel this merger will ruin TC.  My $.02s 

[Davemuzz]

I am a solid T/C owner, I own a TCR/Encore/Contender/Hawken.  I have multiple barrels for all but the Hawken.  I love all my TCs.  I own two S&Ws, a 12ga shotgun and an old model K .357.    In the last three years I have seen three new S&W pistols that had the barrels blow off.  These were revolvers, and the barrel came off where the threads end that screw it into the frame.  I personelly saw all three of these guns.  One was shooting handloads, the other two were shooting factory loads.  Therefore I am not impressed with the quality of the new S&W guns.  I feel this merger will ruin TC.  My $.02s 

You know, I've never seen a barrel blown off a gun. However, I have heard of guns getting damaged and when you get down to it, most of the time it's from a handload that's been overcharged. Now, your factory load buddy may have been shootin factories at the time, but I would be suspect that at some point in that guns recent history, it had some hot loads run thru it. My $.02s.

Dave.

[Keith L]

It was widely reported that S&W lost a huge governmental order to one of the states when barrels started blowing off their guns.   I hadn't heard that it affected any individual sales, but it was a problem S&W had and faced some months ago.  My understanding is they found and repaired the problem.

With the complexity of modern manufacturing, it is possible for any company to have something high profile happen that affects a large number of product.  How the company deals with this problem shows what kind of company they are.  I heard they stood to it and made it right to the consumer.

[Flash]

I see nothing good coming from this buy-out other than S&W sucking the life and profits out of T/C and then selling it a few years down the road. The employees are the most expensive commodity and when the work force is cut by 40%, T/C  instantly looks more marketable.

  ;DWow.....40% cut in the employee base. That's a significant cut. Do you think they can keep up current levels of production with those kind of labor cuts? I'm not even talking about quality....just production levels.

And since they are tryiing to "smoke and mirror" this thing to value ramp it to resell, the increased sales from less manfacturing product because of less labor, and poor quality should certanly help with the value issue. And how is that they are going to increase sales with less product?


I'm waiting for your answer.........just waiting.


Dave.

Yes, a 40% cut could easily be achieved. I lived through a 60% cut in the work force. Without new products, you don't need engineering. Tasks are consolidated and fewer employees do more with less. Reduced production will be short lived once the staff gets acclimated to the new culture. There are dozzens of ways for this all to fall into place. Multitasking covers everyone from administration to skilled labor. Departments can be streamlined to be more efficient, processes changed and shortened. Tell me I'm wrong in two years, not today. They won't need to value ramp it, they just mask what they remove from the operation.

[Davemuzz]

Yes, a 40% cut could easily be achieved. I lived through a 60% cut in the work force. Without new products, you don't need engineering. Tasks are consolidated and fewer employees do more with less. Reduced production will be short lived once the staff gets acclimated to the new culture. There are dozzens of ways for this all to fall into place. Multitasking covers everyone from administration to skilled labor. Departments can be streamlined to be more efficient, processes changed and shortened. Tell me I'm wrong in two years, not today. They won't need to value ramp it, they just mask what they remove from the operation.

Wow, so the inept management of T\C managed to get $102 million from a overly cost bloated employee fat over engineered manufacturing firm. Those country bumpkins just kept people around on the payroll a-cause they are just nice people and money had nothing to do with it? I'll bet they had people in accounting just adding the colums in the phone book just for something to do....then they paid them a nice fat bonus at the end of the year a-cause the phone book added correctly?

Ghee.....those dumb 'ol guys at T\C probably could have gotton $300 million if you did the consulting....huh? But they just wern't smart enough to hire people to "help 'em out" with that stuff.....or they probably just didn't think of it.  Oh well, what's a few million here or there anyway.

But you got it wired huh???  40%....yeah.......in 2 years....yeah....and they will have majic pixy dust to cure brain cancer then too!!!!

Dave

[sr sawyer]

Just wondering.  What would be the response had the cut been 65%.

[Flash]

Yes, a 40% cut could easily be achieved. I lived through a 60% cut in the work force. Without new products, you don't need engineering. Tasks are consolidated and fewer employees do more with less. Reduced production will be short lived once the staff gets acclimated to the new culture. There are dozzens of ways for this all to fall into place. Multitasking covers everyone from administration to skilled labor. Departments can be streamlined to be more efficient, processes changed and shortened. Tell me I'm wrong in two years, not today. They won't need to value ramp it, they just mask what they remove from the operation.

Wow, so the inept management of T\C managed to get $102 million from a overly cost bloated employee fat over engineered manufacturing firm. Those country bumpkins just kept people around on the payroll a-cause they are just nice people and money had nothing to do with it? I'll bet they had people in accounting just adding the colums in the phone book just for something to do....then they paid them a nice fat bonus at the end of the year a-cause the phone book added correctly?

Ghee.....those dumb 'ol guys at T\C probably could have gotton $300 million if you did the consulting....huh? But they just wern't smart enough to hire people to "help 'em out" with that stuff.....or they probably just didn't think of it.  Oh well, what's a few million here or there anyway.

But you got it wired huh???  40%....yeah.......in 2 years....yeah....and they will have majic pixy dust to cure brain cancer then too!!!!

Dave

I'll bet you have a huge salary with your attitude. I can't remember when I've read such arrogant nonsense.

[Davemuzz]

I'll bet you have a huge salary with your attitude. I can't remember when I've read such arrogant nonsense.

First, I do have a good salary....but I don't know what your definition of "huge" is. You see, "huge" is a relative term. To some, huge is $100K a year, and to others, huge is $100K a month.

Second, You must have a short memory if you can't recall reading arrogant nonsense. Go back and read the part about cutting a manfacturing workforce by 40% and expecting to maintain a quality product so sales continue to increase.  Yeah....that arrogant nonsense.

Dave

[Davemuzz]

There is always Brownells. If your in a big hurry just have 'em overnight it. Yeah, it will cost more.....but better to have the right screw than to screw the barrell up.

Dave.

[Flash]

There is always Brownells. If your in a big hurry just have 'em overnight it. Yeah, it will cost more.....but better to have the right screw than to screw the barrell up.

Dave.

Is this a coded rebuttal to the Buy-Out thread?

[Davemuzz]

There is always Brownells. If your in a big hurry just have 'em overnight it. Yeah, it will cost more.....but better to have the right screw than to screw the barrell up.

Dave.

Is this a coded rebuttal to the Buy-Out thread?

That's really weird. It was a response to "Contender forarm screws" post. I have no idea how it got here. Unless it was that 4th Miller. ....or maybe a top secret code! Nah.....I think it was the Miller's.

[Flash]

There is always Brownells. If your in a big hurry just have 'em overnight it. Yeah, it will cost more.....but better to have the right screw than to screw the barrell up.

Dave.

Is this a coded rebuttal to the Buy-Out thread?

That's really weird. It was a response to "Contender forarm screws" post. I have no idea how it got here. Unless it was that 4th Miller. ....or maybe a top secret code! Nah.....I think it was the Miller's.

When you get a real good salary, consider a Sam Adams Ale.

[Davemuzz]

Yeah,,,,,well I'm not much of a fan of malt Ale's or lite beer's, thanks' just the same. I like beer. Real beer. Regular real beer.

But perhaps it's the Malt that has you dazed and confused that a 40% labor cut in a manfacturing plant will still allow them to maintain the same quality production levels?

Dave.

Like RonF, I'm glad the thread is locked. However, when I get tired of reading a thread, I just choose not to open it. How tough is that?

[RonF]

Hey Moderator, haven't we heard enough of this?  All points of view seem to have been presented; why not lock this thread?

RonF

[Redhawk1]

Been out of town two day. Yea you are right, I think it is about time it got locked. We are not getting anywhere with this thread. More like an open sore and when it dies down salt get's added.