Author Topic: S&W Aquires Thompson/Center for $102 million (Read 4186 times)

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 19, 2006, 04:38:11 PM »

Time will tell. I am also I T/C fan, I have been shooting T/C contender for over 25 years now and Encores since they first came out. But I remain optimistic about T/C's future.

Mikey · « **Reply #31 on:** December 20, 2006, 01:11:49 AM »

Hmmmm, Contenders with cylinders??? S&W revolvers with long barrels and shoulder stocks?

Now this could be interesting....................Just a thought. Mikey.

David Carey · « **Reply #32 on:** December 20, 2006, 08:07:41 AM »

Just because there is a merge of two companies does not mean total loss for one or the other Co. The article states that they purchased all of the New hampshire facility. To me that sounds like they will still be made at there own respective factory not at only one. S&W already has two manufaturing plants why not one more that is already set up and running. It also uses the words move and the like but the move sounds financial not physical.

From the article
"The purchase price for Thompson/Center Arms includes the company's Rochester, New Hampshire facility, which produces all of the company's products and is situated geographically between Smith & Wesson's manufacturing operations in Springfield, Massachusetts and Houlton, Main."

Dave

nomosendero · « **Reply #33 on:** December 20, 2006, 12:23:27 PM »

Quote from: Keith L on December 19, 2006, 08:55:10 AM

Point is none of us truly know what kind of financial shape TC is in, or what S&W has in mind. One possible way this could have worked out is that TC would close like just happened with the folks making Winchester rifles. That wasn't much good. And the infusion of capitol by the S&W Holding Company may put new life back into TC. Greybeard spoke of new product soon to be released, and this purchase took some time to put together. Perhaps there is a connection. And like I said in a post on another forum I have worked with companies that purchased other successful companies and left them alone. I don't know what the plans are, and neither do most of us.

In any event, all the handwringing in the world won't change anything. All we can do is wait and see. And hope for the best.

Amen to that!

I will not pretend to be smart enough to know what will happen & I don't have any prophetic gifts. Like Keith L said it could go either way & I also have seen it go both ways with some of my customers & manufacturers that we are dealers for(industrial Equipment).

On a positive note, I have seen companies merge like this in order to have a full product line. This strengthens their distribution & dealer network
& can give then a better market share with all of the products. Of course, TC has just introduced their Icon bolt action centerfire, & the pontential
is huge due to unique features of this rifle.

Also, it can give them a better buying position for steel, wood & other raw goods, as they can buy in much more quantity. They may maintain the manufacturing due to the products being so different, but could trim their upper level management a little.

As was mentioned, no need to worry, we can't change it anyway & it may even be good.

buffalohunter · « **Reply #34 on:** December 23, 2006, 01:24:24 PM »

This is what I expected from everybody, lets just wait and and see. Smith and Wesson is a bunch of whores, they have sold out gun owners in the past and will do so again in the future. They will end up destroying Thompson-Center, they will keep saying they aren't but they will, larger companies always destroy the smaller company. I been thru it and speak from experience, if you are going to trust Smith and Wesson than I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell real cheap!!!!!!!!!

Merry Christmas

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #35 on:** December 23, 2006, 02:33:27 PM »

Quote from: buffalohunter on December 23, 2006, 01:24:24 PM

This is what I expected from everybody, lets just wait and and see. Smith and Wesson is a bunch of (censored word)s, they have sold out gun owners in the past and will do so again in the future. They will end up destroying Thompson-Center, they will keep saying they aren't but they will, larger companies always destroy the smaller company. I been thru it and speak from experience, if you are going to trust Smith and Wesson than I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell real cheap!!!!!!!!!

Merry Christmas

Tell us how you really feel.

I am done making assumptions on this topic. You all can have a blast speculating all you want. I will just sit back and see what happens. I am just glad Winchester never tried to buy T/C.... LOL

Flash · « **Reply #36 on:** December 25, 2006, 04:43:38 AM »

I can't wait to see the new K frame Contender and Sigma Encore. I see nothing good coming from this buy-out other than S&W sucking the life and profits out of T/C and then selling it a few years down the road. The employees are the most expensive commodity and when the work force is cut by 40%, T/C instantly looks more marketable. The stragety of becoming a more diversified supplier is most likely smoke and mirrors. I wouldn't be surprised if some product lines of T/C are dropped and /or sold off within a year or so. Yea, not a good day for T/C fans.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 25, 2006, 06:01:52 AM »

That was funny, I got a good laugh out of that.

;D

kmeyer · « **Reply #38 on:** December 25, 2006, 06:30:37 AM »

I am a huge TC fan. I also think S&W makes a great product. Still, I only see this a a big negative. It means one less American gun manufacturerer.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #39 on:** December 25, 2006, 08:50:59 AM »

Quote from: kmeyer on December 25, 2006, 06:30:37 AM

I am a huge TC fan. I also think S&W makes a great product. Still, I only see this a a big negative. It means one less American gun manufacturerer.

OK, what would of happened if S&W did not buy them out and T/C decided to just close the doors instead?

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #40 on:** December 26, 2006, 04:20:44 PM »

I'm going to remain optimistic...I like S&W...I like TC...Don't know if I like them together...Only time will tell. Been through a couple consolidations myself...Luckily, I was working for the bigger fish and not the smaller one...The jobs that were duplicated were brought onboard at our corporation and not the one that was bought out...Many of the individuals that worked for the companies that my company bought out lost their jobs...This happened at least three times in the 6 years that I was employed there. Hopefully the S&W/TC story will play out differently for the people at TC...

SingleFan · « **Reply #41 on:** December 27, 2006, 09:03:40 AM »

Two reasons why I don't think it is good:

1. The first rule in mergers and acquisitions is that the first thing the acquiring company sets out to do is to pay for the acquisition. Now that may mean that they are going to be happy just letting TC go about their business, but I've never, ever seen that be the case, and in my business I'm around M&A all the time. Usually they know how they're going to pay for it before they ink the deal, and I don't mean pay TC, I mean reap the profit they're planning to wring out of the business in addition to the return on the cash they laid out.
2. It's my personal experience that SW's customer service is not at the same level of TC's. Wanna know how you make money in an M&A? Consolidate resources. Hopefully what that means in this case is they'll take key valuable TC employees and just bring them up to speed on the SW way (boy can you hear that water cooler conversation?)

Two ways to grow a business (and the key to understanding this is the little trade symbol), grow the top line (revenue), or improve the bottom line by cutting costs. When a company is publically traded, you get crazy little things like 30 yr. old MBA's setting revenue goals and it makes strange things happen. That one I know from painful personal experience. You'll hear lots of nice sounding things about how it's going to be better for both companies. We'll see.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #42 on:** December 27, 2006, 12:17:02 PM »

I have had first hand experience with mergers and acquisitions. Pretty little buzz words start to appear like "process re engineering" and "targeting" and "excessed". This is not remote theory on my part. What these pretty words really mean is thank you for your dedication, trust and hard work and "YOUR FIRED".

Cheese

corbanzo · « **Reply #43 on:** December 27, 2006, 05:18:04 PM »

Darn those companies out there that make more than one product... darn them all.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #44 on:** December 28, 2006, 02:23:22 AM »

Boy, ya can tell that Christmas is over!

I don't know why S&W did what they did. I also think that S&W will not let T/C loose it's identity. It is too well know and has a good reputation. I like them both and hope that this merger will work to both S&W and our favor.

Oh yeah, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!! Lighten up guys, life is too short. Will be going out into the woods again in the morning. Wish me luck.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #45 on:** December 28, 2006, 03:24:04 AM »

Quote from: Lawful Larry on December 28, 2006, 02:23:22 AM

Boy, ya can tell that Christmas is over!

I don't know why S&W did what they did. I also think that S&W will not let T/C loose it's identity. It is too well know and has a good reputation. I like them both and hope that this merger will work to both S&W and our favor.

Oh yeah, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!! Lighten up guys, life is too short. Will be going out into the woods again in the morning. Wish me luck.

Good luck to you Larry.

kmeyer · « **Reply #46 on:** December 28, 2006, 02:29:09 PM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on December 25, 2006, 08:50:59 AM

Quote from: kmeyer on December 25, 2006, 06:30:37 AM
I am a huge TC fan. I also think S&W makes a great product. Still, I only see this a a big negative. It means one less American gun manufacturerer.

OK, what would of happened if S&W did not buy them out and T/C decided to just close the doors instead?

Redhawk1,

I didn't know TC was talking about closing their doors. I thought TC was doing well. If that was the case though, then this is the next best thing. But it would still stink, although much better than losing TC altogether. Any way you look at it means one less gun manufacturer. All I'm trying to say is, I would prefer all American gun companies to flourish and I wish we had more of them. This also means a big celebration for the liberals.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #47 on:** December 28, 2006, 03:27:03 PM »

kmeyer, that was just speculation on my part. I don't know what the actions or reasons why T/C sold to S&W. Frankly I hope S&W lets T/C operate as it has and there is not problems. I like both T/C and S&W.

latigo_allen · « **Reply #48 on:** December 28, 2006, 04:44:44 PM »

If you try and see things from both sides then maybe it will make a bit more sense. If you was T/C making firearms in a small company in todays sue happy world and seein how the bigger companies are gettin sued and that. Maybe you start wondering how long before its you and how you will make it thru, if your S&W and you want to expand into other areas you find this little guy with a big reputation and you start hagling. You cant blame either really. I do hope it works for both companies.
To the guy that ask if S&W made there own rifles and shotguns, way back at the first of the thread, to my knowledge no, the rifle made a few years ago was a howa barreled action I believe

Graybeard · « **Reply #49 on:** December 28, 2006, 06:35:55 PM »

I'm not exactly sure why everyone is thinking of S&W as such a big company and TC as such a small company. When the current owners bought S&W as I recall they paid little if any more for it than they are supposed to have now paid for TC. Where they came up with so much money so fast I have to wonder. And the parent outfit that bought S&W back when really wasn't that big either and I wondered then where the money came from. I'm still wondering.

Lost Okie · « **Reply #50 on:** January 03, 2007, 01:15:09 PM »

Take a step back and think about it. When the lawsuits start back up, who better to afford the costs of attorney's, a smaller TC or a much larger SW/TC. Yes, the sky is falling....just not all at once (He He Ho Ho). In corporate America, ya just never know. Have been thru 3 plant closings and 4 buy outs. Long term, they have all meant the same thing......Ya Hoo,

I get to move again and find another place to hunt in another state with another hunting partner.

RANGER RICK · « **Reply #51 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:29:24 AM »

Just think about it for a moment .........................................................................................Keep Thinking ...OK
A T/C 5 shot Revolver with ( now get this ) Removeable barrels and cylinders !!!!! ( Look out Dan Wesson !!!! )
They can come in a handy 5 pack Aluminum case Monogramed with S&WT/C and all it takes is a screwdriver to change out the Barrel and Cylinder .
Just think a single shot S&W and a mullti shot T/C !!!!!!!!!
The sky is the limit with new and improved revolvers .

Happy New year

RR

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #52 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:20:35 PM »

Quote from: RANGER RICK on January 05, 2007, 11:29:24 AM

Just think about it for a moment .........................................................................................Keep Thinking ...OK
A T/C 5 shot Revolver with ( now get this ) Removeable barrels and cylinders !!!!! ( Look out Dan Wesson !!!! )
They can come in a handy 5 pack Aluminum case Monogramed with S&WT/C and all it takes is a screwdriver to change out the Barrel and Cylinder .
Just think a single shot S&W and a mullti shot T/C !!!!!!!!!
The sky is the limit with new and improved revolvers .

Happy New year

RR

Always good to hear from you Ranger Rick. Hope you are having a great new year up there in AK.

AiredaleTerrier · « **Reply #53 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:20:32 AM »

I do believe S/W made a pump shotgun in 20ga. A good friend of mine was given one from his father.

Graybeard · « **Reply #54 on:** January 22, 2007, 12:53:07 PM »

Actually I don't think S&W has ever MADE anything but handguns. They have had their name on a lot of stuff but it was made by someone else for them. The rifles and shotguns for sure were that way. I'm sure the knives, tools and leather are the same.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #55 on:** January 22, 2007, 02:21:58 PM »

One big reason S&W bought T/C was, they wanted to get back into the long gun business and T/C has an already well established.
I had a model 1500 S&W rifle in 25-06 a long time ago and it was a great shooter.
I hope this partnership does well.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #56 on:** January 22, 2007, 02:30:33 PM »

I here S&W makes a very nice AR15.

Cheese