Super Short Magnums???

[IC Cowboy]

I guess I am looking for some reassurance here; with the 223WSSM and 243WSSM since these are new calibers and Winchester has quit maiking Model 70s and the ammo is not very widely made, would it be a good idea to consider a different caliber. I already have very capable Varmint calibers 22WMR, 223, and a 204 Ruger. I just don't want to get stuck with a rifle that ammo will be like a 28 or even 16 ga in the near future. I did buy a 300WSM, but I feel it is here to stay, just uncertain about the 2 WSSM mentioned. Thanks and if you own 1 I would appreciate any feedback also. All opinions welcomed! 

[Coyote Hunter]

IC Cowboy –

The only reassurance I can offer is that the WSMs and WSSMs and SAUMs are going to be progressively harder to find.  The Winchester is no longer making rifles and the WSM/WSSM cartridges are being dropped by other manufacturers due to legal issues.  Rmington seems to be dropping the SAUMs as well.  Get a .22-250 or .25-06 and don’t look back.  The .22-250 for a pure varminter, the .25-06 as a dual purpose rifle or superb long distance varminter.

[jasonprox700]

I think you're right about the .300 being here to stay.  As for the.223 and .243 WSSM's, I don't think they'll stick.  If your looking at something along these lines for high velocity rounds, then go with the .22-250 or .220 Swift.  With the .243, you could load a 55 grain and get over 4,000 fps. 

[Lone Star]

It is tough to predict what will happen.  Remington's website lists the 7 SAUM and 300 SAUM still chambered in their M7s, and Browning still chambers for all the WSSMs.  That may change of course, the market will determine if they stay around.  So far most have not set the world on fire and they failed to keep the M70 afloat.  The WSMs have not had the bad press that the smaller WSSMs have received and they make more sense to me anyway, particularly the 270 and 300 WSMs that Remington and Savage chamber in their rifles.

I believe that I'd either buy a WSSM and lay in a supply of cases and dies - or go for a cartridge with a proven track record like the .22-250 or the .243/6mm Remington.  The reality is you won't notice any practical difference in the field - just in the ballistic tables.


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[nomosendero]

IC Cowboy, I also believe the 300WSM will survive & the 270WSM as well. The 7mmWSM is in someways a better round, but I don't
think it will make it. I believe the 300RUM is fine also.

I trully believe the WSSM's are not going to make it. As stated before, problems were reported & in the case of the 25WSSM, it really offers very little & the 25-06 easily outdoes it if loaded to same pressures. The 223 & 243 (especially 223) are hotrods, but a
22-250 will handle most varmiting needs. But, if you DEMAND very close to the same performance it is easy, get a fast twist 22-250AI
or 6mm/243AI or 6-284 with fast twist.

I hear that Savage will be bringing out a Varmiter in 22-250 with a 1-9 twist. Load some A-Max bullets & you will have the range capabilities that you would have had with the 223WSSM, but with a std. case.

[kudzu]

Right on NOMO

Merry Christmas, DANNY

[shilo]

"WSM and WSSM cartridges are being dropped by other manufacters due to legal issues." Just wondering what legal issues?

[nomosendero]

Danny, merry Christmas to you as well.

[nomosendero]

"WSM and WSSM cartridges are being dropped by other manufacters due to legal issues." Just wondering what legal issues?

The Rick Jamison issue.

[Don Fischer]

I wouldn't touch any new cartridge unless it was made on some type common case. Then as long as you handload, you never run out of ammo. I recall the 5mm Rem Mag all to well. A buddy of mine got one and the thing went under soon after. Today, there's not much ammo around! But a cartridge like the 280 Rem just comes and goes, but for the handloader, never goes! How would you like to own a 256 Newton you wanted to shoot? Remember it is not a 6.5-06! Close but no cigar.

When new cartridges come out, they get all the hype to get them going but when everythig settles down, many just fade away. If those that fade are made on some new hard to form case, your up against the wall. Come to think of it, can you still get 224 Weatherby cases? How about 219 Zipper? I doubt any company will continue to market ammo at a loss to be sure everyone get's a couple boxes when needed.

In the end, there is little you can acomplish with any new cartridge except speed. That can usually be had with very common cases thru "improving" cases, longer barrels and , as mentioned, fast twist barrels and heavier bullet's.

[nasem]

anything with 223 or 243 shouldn't have a magnum infront of its name... its kind of useless, at least in my opinion.

The way I see it is, people get them small calibers with "magnum" because they want the flatter trajectories, well, if your going to shoot at a sad little p-dog @ 500 yards, wouldn't you want something that, can handle wind movement better than say a 223 or even a 243 ?  I'd be more comfortable with a 6.5 or even a 270 at those distances, because they can handle the wind a little better.

to me, the ultimate vamint gun is a good-ole 223 rem..... and this doesn't do it, go to your 243 win

[victorcharlie]

Heck.....everyone has an opinion.........If it were me, I'd cruise the ammo isle and see how many, if any boxes or ammo is on the shelves.....or, if there is even an empty slot for it.

[huntswithdogs]

Nomo,

Care to tell us what "the Rick Jamison issue" is? I've not heard about this. Got any links to this. I'd like to know more.

As for the original question...If I can get my wife to rid herself of her 243WSSM, I'd be a lot happier. I don't like it and it don't like anybody or any ammo that I've bought or reloaded.


HWD

[IC Cowboy]

Thanks, for all the replys, and ya'll have confirmed what my Gut was telling me. I guess I was more interested in getting 1 last USA Made Model 70 and the 223WSSM and 243WSSM were the only choices left, yes the ballistics are impressive on paper, but I think my 204. 223 and possibly future 22-250 cal. can handle any/every-thing I need and not worry about ammo. I think they kinda flooded the markets with all the WSMs anyway, even though I did purchase a 300 WSM, but felt that out of everything in WSM the 300 made the most sense and many ammo companies already offered choices in loads, and it doesn't hurt that th .30 caliber seems to almost be a sure bet as far as staying power goes. I have elected to get a 22-250 instead of either of the WSSMs for my next varmint round. By the way; anyone think the 204Ruger will fall to the wayside? Thanks for reassuring me!

[nomosendero]

I C Cowboy, the 204 is doing fine & I believe it will continue to do so. It fills a niche, it gives 22-250 type performance, at least in small Varmit situations, & gives good performance in a round that will hold up to volume shooting, as in PD's for example. So, the niche is 223 type volume capabilty with performance more like a bigger 22(at least for smaller Varmits & for some people big varmits too), & with powder consumption more like the 223, a dang good combination.
The Super Shorts offer more problems than solution.

HWD, I saw this many months ago, but Rick Jamison (the gun writer), won a lawsuit against Win. stated that his short mag design
was copied. I did not keep copies of this, just read it and moved on, I am sure you could do a search or prehaps go to shortmags &
read more.

[Lone Star]

According to what I read there was no lawsuit; there was apparently an out-of-court settlement. 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/column18_death_short_magnums.htm

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