Author Topic: What is your solution? (Read 2880 times)

WylieKy · « **on:** December 20, 2006, 05:21:47 AM »

What is your solution to our problems in the Mideast. I would like to get an honest discussion started on this, and do not want it to turn into a holier than thou war of words. I am looking for viable ideas and feedback on those ideas. Something between "Nuke em till they glow and then shoot em in the dark" and "We'll send them a build-a-bear and a tastefully arranged bouquet of flowers." In the media, on campaign trail, and on the message boards there is a lot of "Sure wouldn't do it that way" without much in the way of alternative plans of action. Occupation in my opinion is tactically viable, but strategically stupid. Our losses, compared to previous wars and occupations, are extremely low. However, every day our presence breeds more and more vicious resistance, and as international and local support fades, the extremists are emboldened as our troops are disheartened. On the other hand, if we withdraw, the terrorists will count it as a victory and we risk Iran 1979 all over again.

What would you do?

WylieKy

DWTim · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2006, 06:04:04 AM »

There is no viable, short-term solution. The radical reformation of Islam began (for the third time?) in the late 18th Century in the Arabian Peninsula. It just so happens that this area has been under the rule of the House of Saud for more than one hundred years, and the influence of this reformation has been greatly boosted by oil revenue since the 1920s. It took a long time to get established, it has taken hold in other sects of Islam, and it is not going away tomorrow. So I guess the first step would be to tell off the political and media talking-heads that suggest voting for the right candidate in the next election is somehow going to fix it all.

The only solution would be to counter the movement with an opposing one. Look at how many Muslim religious schools are being funded by the Saudi regime (with a Wahabist undercurrent to the teachings). Solving the radical reformation is akin to solving marxism. We haven't had any luck with either, and in the West, marxism is winning where it counts.

How can we do this? Well, brainwashing the kids sure worked out well for the leftists, and it's working for the Wahabis... So I guess influencing the young is the way to go.

Greybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2006, 07:57:37 AM »

I honestly don't think there is a solution short of us either killing them or them us. It's just the way they are, they will NEVER EVER stop trying to kill all non muslims. Oh sure they will put the plan on hold for a while from time to time when they realize they have no choice but they will never stop alltogether.

Our best hope of putting them into another holding pattern is similar, you MUST show them only STRENGTH. They mistake kindness for weakness. In every dealing with them you MUST demonstrate you are more powerful and are willing and able to quash them like a bug. Only when they understand that are they likely to refrain from attacking. Each and every time they do attack like Israel you must pound the snot out of them. Even they eventually get the message.

jh45gun · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2006, 08:50:17 AM »

Well if you look at History they have tried to take over the world several times and were at one time a force force to be reckoned with. They are trying to do the same today it is no mistake that they are all over the world instead of just the mideast and try to convert folks to their warlike religion. Yea I said warlike as it sure is not one of peace like the Christian one is and some of the others. Greybeard is right Force is all they understand and even then I am hot sure if they understand that any one that does not mind blowing them selves up and others with them sure is not afraid of dieing by some one elses hand. We are in a Holy War again it is the crusades all over again the only answer I can see is crush them no matter where you find them. I would also make a law that no money from them is to leave the US and any letters or packages would be inspected and if money is found it would be seized. too many of them are making money here and sending it over seas to fund the terrorist.

Tn Jim · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2006, 09:42:18 AM »

Nuke 'em till they glow and then shoot 'em in the dark! GB is right. Force is all they understand.

tscott · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2006, 09:46:09 AM »

In June of 67 I was loaded on a train to get on a boat and save the Jews. We didn't end up going, because the Jews took care of that flareup themselves. When we got back to Ft Hood the battalion Commander debriefed us. "As long as we all live the flashpoint of the world will be the Mideast! This will never go away"! (I did end up saving the Jews, married one, she encourages my hunting and fishing addiction)!

hardertr · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:30:03 AM »

I agree with everyone when they suggest this war is not winable....to an extent.

If we want to win, we will have to saturate their country with US troops (much like Germany post-WWII), treat them like kings if they submit to our rule (much like Germany up until recently), and give them a whoopin' they won't soon forget if they revert back to their natural ways.

We'll never get the support for a full-fledged invasion, so we'll never do more than annoy the terrorist and turn the rest of them against us completely.

I can't say I blame them for hating us. We turned their country completely upside-down, and offer them no real plan for restoring it and giving it back to them. As far as they (should be) concerned, they WERE invaded by the US.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:59:27 AM »

Divide up the country in to smaller countries by pre-Versallies treaty tribal boundries......

jhm · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2006, 01:39:44 PM »

Bring all the reporters home where it is safe and I dont mean for them I mean for our troops, then remove the shackles from our troups and let them do their job, they have been trained for such activities but cant do so when you have someone standing over your shoulder waiting to write or film each and every move you make and send it back for the 6 o clock news mush pile, we are in a war and they need to understand that in a war people get killed, property gets destroyed, and so called inicents who protect the enemy is just as dead. JIM

billy_56081 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2006, 04:47:44 PM »

The only cure for rabid animals such as the muslims is killing so many of then that they never try to rise against good again. Nuking Mecca on Sept. 12th woulda been a good start to show them we meen buisiness. And that their false god "allah" could not save thier holiest city.

No one can tell me that these animals all wanna die for "allah". You never see the mullahs blowing themselves up only thier brain washed follower fools.

The war is winnable. We just have to do what it takes to win. We have the weapons, the manpower, now all we need to do is do it.

jh45gun · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2006, 06:08:33 PM »

I can't say I blame them for hating us. We turned their country completely upside-down, and offer them no real plan for restoring it and giving it back to them. As far as they (should be) concerned, they WERE invaded by the US.

Oh good grief they hated us long before we ever set foot in any country over there and remember they invaded US first! We should take off the kid gloves and show them real power. To hell with what other countries think of us when it comes time for a hand out they will come calling no matter what we do.

FLNT4EVR · « **Reply #11 on:** December 21, 2006, 01:35:15 AM »

If your going to fight a war then it must be total war. If we can't commit to that than we should get out,totally. And by that I mean every thing,Every American ,man ,woman and child.Every American company,every American dollar.every piece of American tecnology. We shouldn't leave a useable pencil behind.What we can't take with us destroy.and then seize all their assets over here.Then put as much pressure on our allies as we can to do the same.They don't want us there , so be it.
.Also,they are always bragging about the army of terrorists that they have in our country, who have been here for years.. Well , send them back, all of them.We need'nt waste the time ,or the money to sort them out.Who's idea was it to let a sworn enemy people into our country anyway.Not mine, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't yours either.

Mikey · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2006, 01:42:34 AM »

I agree with Graybeard, JMH45 gun and all the others who know that the only way to deal zealots like the fanatic muslems is to hurt them badly. Literally, every stinkin' time those rats stick their heads up out of their holes, cut them off.

Old Blackjack Pershing had the solution. In the Phillipines they caught 70 muslem terrorists, or whatever they were called back in his day. He had 69 of them executed by having his men dip their bullet in the blood of two freshly slaughtered (right in front of their eyes) hogs, and then had the 69 shot with those bullets. The last man was freed to take the message back. There was no more trouble from them for over 70 years.

So, why don't we drop a 10k warhead on Maquada al Sadr's mosque when he is preaching jihad and then broadcast that the enire area was dusted by hog parts - might make for the easiest way to clean out a neighborhood that one could think of and would certainly send the message that if you preach hatred against America we will just kill you, and all your family, and your community, and your church and that the rest of the world will know why. End of story until we have to send over another 10k warhead. Just a thought. Mikey.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2006, 05:45:49 AM »

Quote from: Mikey on December 21, 2006, 01:42:34 AM

I agree with Graybeard, JMH45 gun and all the others who know that the only way to deal zealots like the fanatic muslems is to hurt them badly. Literally, every stinkin' time those rats stick their heads up out of their holes, cut them off.

Old Blackjack Pershing had the solution. In the Phillipines they caught 70 muslem terrorists, or whatever they were called back in his day. He had 69 of them executed by having his men dip their bullet in the blood of two freshly slaughtered (right in front of their eyes) hogs, and then had the 69 shot with those bullets. The last man was freed to take the message back. There was no more trouble from them for over 70 years.

So, why don't we drop a 10k warhead on Maquada al Sadr's mosque when he is preaching jihad and then broadcast that the enire area was dusted by hog parts - might make for the easiest way to clean out a neighborhood that one could think of and would certainly send the message that if you preach hatred against America we will just kill you, and all your family, and your community, and your church and that the rest of the world will know why. End of story until we have to send over another 10k warhead. Just a thought. Mikey.

Ok.......why don't we load our B-52's with pigs and drop them on Iraq from an altitude of 50,000 feet or so, run a 2 week campaign and then tell them if they don't behave we'll drop more pigs?

I have to chuckle a bit......anyone remember the episode of WKRP in Cincinnati where Herb Tarlik dropped the turkeys from the helicopter only to learn that Turkeys's can't fly?

From a practical point of view, it will be very hard to satisfy all the tribes in the region.........The old historical boundries seem to be a big issue.....

After carving it up let each one know that if you don't behave we'll take you out and start over again......then do it........

Another point, American foreign policy is driven by greed, or the need to make more money. We need to take a long hard look at the affects of globalization and who really benefits......

We don't seem nearly as concerned about poor countries that have nothing to exploit.......and allow genocide without retribution........Clearly, we're in the middle east to serve our own need, an not the humanitarian need that seems to justify the cause.........

magooch · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2006, 06:10:05 AM »

My first instinct would be to bomb the bastards out of existence. But seriously I think we have to give it just one more shot at standing up whatever can pass for an Iraqi army and then stand back and let them have at it. I would do whatever is practical to train them for another couple of months and then we hand it over to them. Our military should then focus on doing what we can to stop infiltration from Iran and Syria.

With any luck, the Sunnis and shiites will kill each other off in sufficient numbers that the remaining population will be more than happy to have us come back in and organize a new country.

If it weren't for the oil in Iraq, we could just kiss the place good-bye, but I'm realist enough to know that we can't allow that resource to fall into the wrong hands.

xraze · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2006, 07:12:37 AM »

I agree with most of the posts.., Take a whoop a$$ stance; take no prisoners; take off the gloves and let our fighting forces unleash
the dogs of war. Gotta get the drive by media reporters out of there and take the crybabies out of the equation. Everytime one of our elected congress/senators whines about the treatment of those maggots makes me wonder how in the world did they get elected. What do think would happen if we put some serious naval hardware (Boomers) in the mix and light the place up? Me thinks the uproar in this country would be deafening. So, lets pull most if not all of the troops in 6 months and I'll betcha when Iran starts seriously threatening Israel, well see a whole bunch of nukes unleashed on the real terror hellhole in the middle east. I really don't think Israel will be afraid to protect their homeland from extinction as that ammmadinnnajihad pinhead predicts. Thoughts ?

sparsons · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2006, 11:01:51 AM »

Every thing I would do would fly in the face of all the treaties we have signed concerning the use of nukes. I would send word to all the heads of the middle east countries and explain that they must act to stop this nonsense now. Any further action any where in the world and their brothers will no longer need to bow down and face east to mecca anymore because there will be no more mecca. To prove my point I would take out all parts of Bagdad and every other city that offered any sort of resisitence. War is war and people die. The only thing that makes us the remaining super power is the power that we refuse to use. When we let the world know we will not use the military power we possess we then in fact become simply another country that fights with conventional weapons. I think if we started really letting the world see we mean business when we mean shock and awe then they would have to think twice. I failed to see any shock and awe Pres. Bush promised years ago. Saw empty building hit for the most part but shock and awe---didn't see anything close to showing the world a message about not messing with us. If we unleached the power we posses with out holding back I believe the most radical muslim sect would have to rethink his vision of end times. History has shown as has been said before when they are put in their place they tend to keep quiet for a while. Those who feel that the followers of the Koran are a bunch of loving caring people who wish no harm to "others" best wake up. We must dictate all terms concerning their future. We would not work with them they would work with us. We would deal with them from the basis that we are the victors and they are the conquered. Of course anything we do would most likely not only go against all the treaties we have signed but probabley some part of our own constitution.

30-30man · « **Reply #17 on:** December 21, 2006, 11:42:36 AM »

First send them Rosie O'donnel, then nuke em. Naw, all kidding aside, there is no victory in this battle. The smartest way out is to quit buying oil from them and buy more from other sources. Then we would not have to even care. The only reason the Middle East is important is because they have oil.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 21, 2006, 01:37:07 PM »

HEy 30-30 your just rehashing the same point. Rosie O Donnel, pigs same thing aint it. LOL

Casull · « **Reply #19 on:** December 21, 2006, 02:01:33 PM »

Quote

First send them Rosie O'donnel, then nuke em.

30-30, I don't have a problem with the nukes, but I'm sure dumping Rosie on them would violate the Geneva Convention, as well as all sense of decency.

Have to say I agree with GB and most of the others here. You don't stick your hand out to a rabid dog, you shoot it.

powderman · « **Reply #20 on:** December 21, 2006, 03:33:49 PM »

I agree with all of this. We dropped the ball in fallujah. It was, is, a stronghold of the Godless ones who support saddam. The entire city should have been leveled, not one wall standing. Then the troops should have been sent in, and ALL survivors executed. Unless we are willing to do that, we will not win. We have to make it so horrible that they will beg for it to stop. There were no innocents in fallujah. Now they are killing each other, the Godless killing the Godless, it doesn't get much better than that. Maybe it's time to just back up, let em go at it, and then kill the winners. POWDERMAN.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 21, 2006, 04:08:00 PM »

It's very sad that our government can't figure out it's very simple to win. They want to love these fiends into being our friends. Muslims are like a cancer on the world and they need to be wiped out or they will take over. They are allready taking over Europe. (Mohammed/Muhamed has taken over George as the most popular boys name in England this year) And my commrades from metro area of MN sent one of these animals to congress this year Kieth Ellison. ( a community leader who praised the backshooting murder of police offcer Jerry Haaf in Minneapolis) That makes me want to throw up. They are chipping away a little at a time and want to rule the world.

The serbs had it right when they were cleaning these satanic beasts from thier country and the UN stepped in and helped them in thier misguided guise for multiculturalism.

It's sad that people cannot see these animals for what they are. Instead these same people talk of tolerance. Where is the musim's tolerance with the Jews in Israel? The Christians in Saudi? Am I to beleive thet being "tolerant" is accepting these zealots? I'm no fool I know these animals will only use this "tolerance", until they are strong enough to force their veiws on all else. At that time the only tolerance will be thier tolerance.

I hope people realize that Islam is a cult started by an evil dictater to control his minions before its too late. It is sad that the loving multicultural folks in thisa country cannot see that muslims stand for everything they are against.

magooch · « **Reply #22 on:** December 22, 2006, 03:26:20 AM »

Okay, I'm revising my "solution"; I'm back to nuke the bastards out of existence. But when the radiation subsides, we still need to go back in and get the oil.

hardertr · « **Reply #23 on:** December 22, 2006, 04:53:39 AM »

A point that many haven't mentioned is that we are trying to fight them in thier own country. They are fighting us, and everyone else, around the world. We COULD nuke Iraq/Afghanistan/Iran/Seria, but THEY would continue to hit us where we least expect it.

They've been planning this war for a VERY long time. Not only did we not have a "contingency plan" in the event of the terrorist attacks prior to 9-11, but we STILL have no idea what the plan is.

On another note, I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE BUSH for his complete disreguard for reality. He is dead-set on sending in more troops and has completely given his military leadership the brush-off. When your generals say "we can't handle more troops right now", any sane leader should give that about 80% weight in a final decission.

I voted for Bush TWICE, and thought he was pretty effecient as our governor, but he has completely lost touch with reality on this one. I think HE is going to get more of us killed than is necessary. There is nothing worse than a city full of military, contract civilians, press and "experts" trying to fight an enemy that has hit-and-run tactics down to an art. I still think the only answer is US led ethnic clensing, but that's not a very "christian" method....or is it

powderman · « **Reply #24 on:** December 22, 2006, 03:26:38 PM »

Ya'll can complain about president Bush all ya want, but open your eyes a bit. We are fighting the Godless ones on their soil, not ours. WE have not been hit again for over 5 years because of the agressive actions by our Govt. All attempts at attacking us again have been stopped, again, from the agressive actions of the Bush administration. You complain while you sleep safely in your warm beds, with a full stomach, thanks to our great military folks. War with the Godless ones is winnable, if we finally tell the rest of the world to go to hell and do what has to be done. The Godless ones understand only death. We have to make it so horrible that they will beg us to stop. Killing 100,000 Japs probably saved well over a million lives in WW11. We are going to have to once again show the world that we will NOT tolerate Godless scum like them. POWDERMAN.

fe352v8 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 22, 2006, 06:47:37 PM »

During WWII the Japan sustained between 1.75 to 2 million military personnel killed and between half a million to one million civilians killed out of a total population of around 72 million, or somewhere between 3% and 4% of the total population, before surrendering. Germany sustained between 3 to 3.5 million military personnel killed and between 1 to 2 million civilians killed out of a total population of around 78 million, or somewhere between 5% and 9% of the total population, before surrendering.

If you extrapolate this out for Muslims with a world wide population of around 1 billion, one would expect that to in order to destroy their will to resist would require them to sustain deaths somewhere between 30 to 100 million.

In WWI Total deaths both military and civilian was between 15 and 16 million; in WWII they were between 50 and 60 million.

In WWI total organized troop strength on both side was around 10.5 million with another 8 million or so of unorganized troops; in WWII total organized troop strength on both sides was around 42.5 million with another 10 million or so of unorganized troops.

Thus, if history is any indicator, it is clear that in order to inflict the number of deaths require to destroy the Muslim’s will to resist it would require either increasing troop strength by by at least a factor of 10 or employing modern weapons of mass destruction.

Using the most “optimistic” numbers Muslims have sustained loses of a million since 2001. At the current rate of casualty infliction there is no way to remove their will to resist. Based upon the historical requirements for removing the will to resist and the growth rate of the Muslim population by birth and conversion, requires either killing 30 million or so world wide at once or at minimum killing 5 to 8 million world wide per year for the next 6 or 7 years

Unless you are prepared to engage in this type of behavior, the military actions but forth in the majority of the preceding posts are unrealistic.

Perhaps it would be better to mute the rhetoric and actual talk with them; of course this is complicated by our refusal to do so and our continued demonization and dehumanization of them. I can only hope your children’s children return home safely based upon the majority of opinions expressed here.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Casull · « **Reply #26 on:** December 22, 2006, 07:33:05 PM »

Quote

Perhaps it would be better to mute the rhetoric and actual talk with them; of course this is complicated by our refusal to do so and our continued demonization and dehumanization of them.

If I wasn't so sickened by this, I would be laughing. Any sign of weakness is met with continued violence. Apparently you just don't understand their history.

williamlayton · « **Reply #27 on:** December 22, 2006, 10:37:40 PM »

Reverse engineering.
What does not work? What we are/have been doing and the way we are/have been doing it.
What will work? Nukes will not work.
Why? because we do not have enough nukes and the population is widespread.
what have we not tried? Talking.
How do we know it will not work, we have not tried it?
A REAL QUESTION WITH A REAL ANSWER.
Why are we there? "There" is not the problem. Anybody ever heard "their everwhere". What is our real goal? Who is making money out of all of this.
I think some of you boys have fallen for their propaganda.
Our leaders, the ones who are really the movers and shakers, are the problem and they have convienced you that these folks are the problem.
Blessings

powderman · « **Reply #28 on:** December 23, 2006, 03:44:46 AM »

FE and others. We've been talking to them for years, their word is worthless, it's like doing business with satan himself. Israel negotiated with the Godless ones in lebanon. The Godless ones have bragged about whipping Israel and all of the weapons they have aquired since the end of hostilities. They are still killing innocents, their word meant nothing. The Godless ones relish in doing satans work, they love it. Their only reason for living, is to kill.
Nukes would work. If baghdad, mecca, and a few other cities disappeared overnight, their attitude would change drasticly, as did japans. I'm sick of playing footsie with these Godless scum. A truce to them only means more time to plan the deaths of more innocents. Their holy satanic handbook gives them permission to lie to infidels, the devils word is worthless. Another point is that these wars were taken to the shores of japan and germany, not to ours. Gotta go to work. Merry Christmas all. POWDERMAN.

gypsyman · « **Reply #29 on:** December 23, 2006, 04:32:44 AM »

Well, here's my 2 cents worth. Going to sound racist, but just telling it the way it is. These people don't have the brain power to take care of them selves. Just like South Africa. Why is it when you hear that the so called birthplace of man, the Middle East-Africa, they are still the most backward civilizations on the planet. They have had more time to develope, yet still don't have the knowledge to build a flush toilet. This country, and Isreal, has been getting kicked in the groin, by a 5'2'' midget sice the '72 Olympics. At least Isreal give's them a smack back once in awhile. How many more Marine barracks have to explode, U.S Cole's, Trade center bombings, or airplane hi-jackings is it going to take, before we finally do what is necessary.
The ONLY reason that Saddam stayed in power, he killed them. Power is the only thing these people understand. If you kill half a family, the other half act like Monica, just to stay alive. Get the press out of there, let the military do what it is trained for. If not, get the forces out of there, and let the baboons kill themselves.
What we have to watch, is other outside force's getting in. You know that China, Russia, North Korea, all want to get in there for the oil. I don't see much good coming out of this whole mess. Kinda like a pimple turning into a boil. It's going to happen, and not much to stop it. -gypsyman