1st 450marlin kill-NOT THRILLED, NEED OPINIONS

[Swampman]

A 405 grain slug through both front shoulders of most animals will ensure recovery. 

[1895m]

I shot a 4 point in the North Woods of Michigan at about 40 yards with my 450.  He was tailing a doe and never even flinchted when he was his.  I thought I missed him from the lack of reaction.  Found him about 40 yards away.  Both lungs were GONE.  Just a big bullet leaving a big hole.  I love My 1895M.  Would not give it up for anything.  I've had the same reaction using my H&R slug gun too.  Probably don't know that they have even been hit.

[plumberroy]

I have shot 5 deer with  my 45/70 handi rifle with sierra 300 grain hp ahead of a stiff load of imr3031 one made one hop  and collapsed other 4 acted  like they were hit by a truck. i  shot a 25# beagle mix [he was mine and killing geese worth $30 each] twice  with the same load ,he went a quartar mile and I shot him in the head with a revolver to finnish him once in a while you will get an animal with more grit .
Roy

[Racer X]

I lost two last season with my Guide Gun and a 405 Grain Cast Performance bullet at 1500 FPS and have since sworn off cast bullets for deer.  Both shots were in the shoulder area. First one left very little blood that we tracked for hundreds of yards before losing the trail. On the other doe, we found no blood but I know I hit it because it stumbled a little before it ran off and the shot was less than 25 yards.

I shot another doe two years ago with the same load. It was a facing shot at about 60 yards. The deer ran about 30 yards and laid down. I found that deer but almost lost it.

The only deer that dropped on the spot with the cast bullet load was hit in the neck. That one did bleed some. 

For deer, switch to an expanding bullet like the 300 grain hollow points. They will do fine on hogs if you hit them in the head or behind the ear.


Later shot a small 100 lb meat hog with the hollow points. It went down quickly, but it was a head shot.

[teddy12b]

I was hunting in Michigan and another guy who was there was hunting with his brand new Marlin lever action 450 Marlin.  Opening morning he took a spike/3pt quarting towards him.  The round went through the front should and ended in the opposite rear just under the skin.  He said that it dropped in it's tracks as fast as anything could fall.  I think the 450 marlin is one arse kicking round.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

  In your situation of hunting near a property line, I totally agree with the other guys about going for the front shoulders for the "bang-flop".  Otherwise, I would say stick with the double-lung shot....a big target.  I have only had one animal drop in his tracks in my whole life, and that was an elk.  The rest blast off like they haven't been touched, but after 40-60 yds. they collapse dead.  Like a previous poster stated, I like the behind the shoulder shot since it damages so little meat. 

Jim

[Swampman]

If they go 40-60 yards here, you may not find them without a dog.

[myronman3]

I'm not the most experienced out there but have taken mule deer, whitetails and antelope in South Dakota and Wyoming at all sorts of distances with 357, 44 mag, 308B***M, 270WSM, 300Sav. 300Wby, 358JDJ, 444marlin. For some reason, I've found that aiming just 1/2 to 2/3 up from the bottom of the chest just behind the line of the shoulder on a broadside shot has given good bang/flop for me everytime I do it. That placement seems to take out upper lobes of lungs, usually doesn't hit the heart but destroys the large blood vessels and seems to transfer "shock" to the spine. Don't know, it just works great for me.

right on here.  i use a 270 and i have killed deer with regular remington, winchester round nose,  but in recent years i shoot nosler ballistic tips and the effect is amazing.   i have never had a deer take one step after a hit like described above.  i heart shot a buck running all out  with a ballistic tip and he dropped stone dead instantly.    my load is nosler 150 gr ballistic tips @ a chrono-ed 2900 fps.  it has worked everytime. 

you also dont mention what load you used,  i suspect you just need the right combination of bullet and placement and you will be bang/flopping in no time flat.

[Swampman]

I put 3 140 grain 7mm-08 nosler ballistic tips right through the boiler room of a small PA buck.  They had no effect whatsoever.  The 4th one was through his brain.  He still took about 10 seconds to die.  No more ballistic tips, and no more sub-.308 rifles for me.  They suck.

[Redhawk1]

Shoot the front shoulder, it takes out the lungs and it's front legs.  High in the shoulder and it can affect the CNS and drop the deer on the spot. Lung shots will not drop a deer in it's tracks, no matter what your shooting.

[myronman3]

Shoot the front shoulder, it takes out the lungs and it's front legs.  High in the shoulder and it can affect the CNS and drop the deer on the spot. Lung shots will not drop a deer in it's tracks, no matter what your shooting.

looks like the streak ends....lol.  what i have witnessed is that every deer i shoot in the lungs with my 270 drops on the spot; every one.  my buddy shoots the same rifle,  and has the exact same effect.  not one step.   i guess i dont understand how our experiences can be so different.    and as far as shooting a deer three times through the boiler room and having no effect,  i question that.  if you were able to shoot it 3 times,  it had to have some effect.   i dont get it.  the deer here are bigger than most places, and no less tough than other whitetails.   

[Keith L]

We have a bunch of 7-08 shooters in our group and have killed many deer with them.  The only one I recall that dropped immediately was one my son shot that was drinking and splashed down in the water.  Since CRS is fully in effect I really don't remember where the deer was hit.  It isn't uncommon for the deer shot in motion to give little indication they have been hit until they pile up.  An old hunters tale around here is that if they are hit in the heart they kick up their hind legs as they run away.  I have seen that on several deer that turned out to have been shot in the heart and still traveled 50-60 yards before giving up.

I guess I would expect a deer to run for a while until critical systems shut down.  Fatal head and neck shots, or blowing up the front shoulders shouls stop them faster.  And as Redhawk said it doesn't make a lot of difference what size gun you are using.

[Dee]

Does all this mean my 50 year old Winchester 3030 won't work anymore?

[Racer X]

I have shot 5 deer with  my 45/70 handi rifle with sierra 300 grain hp ahead of a stiff load of imr3031 one made one hop  and collapsed other 4 acted  like they were hit by a truck. i  shot a 25# beagle mix [he was mine and killing geese worth $30 each] twice  with the same load ,he went a quartar mile and I shot him in the head with a revolver to finnish him once in a while you will get an animal with more grit .
Roy

Where are you shooting them? Behind shoulders? Through shoulders? Neck? I thought about shooting through shoulders with the Hornady 300 grain HP at about 1900 FPS but wondered if the bullet would hold together.

[John Spartan]

My experience has been that if one matches up the proper bullet along with proper placement, the deer will go down within 50 feet.

Some examples, none of which the deer were more than 75 yards when shot:

Winchester FailSafe: Through both shoulders. No deer went more than 15 feet from where they were shot. Minimal meat damage - maybe about 8 ounces per deer.

Sierra Game King: Just behind left shoulder angling to front., about 1/2 to 2/3s up from bottom of chest. Deer only went 8 feet. Minimal meat damage.

Winchester Powerpoint: Broadside, took out both lungs - went only 50 feet. Maybe about 4 ounces of meat damaged.

None of the bullets in these and other situations were recovered. All went through, producing an entrance and exit.

Only one second shot to put one deer out of it's misery.

Yet to take anything with my 45-70 or other leverguns I own, but expect that they will do a good job, provided I use a proper bullet and place the shot well.

I'd still go with the 450 Marlin, whether factory rounds or handloads.

[Dee]

The truth of the matter is you can wound a half-grown cottontail with a 450 marlin and a bad shot.
I've shot deer as a general rule in the heart lungs with 308s, and 2506s. The ones I head shot, fell on the tracks the were standing in at the time. I've had deer run 75 yards with no heart or lungs left, they were so damaged. I don't shoot a 4570 anymore because of the shoulder damage I have. A 3030 is more than enough but a 450 marlin or a hot 4570 is a break the shoulders round. When the break the structure holding the meat up, it naturally hits the ground. JMO.

[TopGun]

Consider the fact a deer can cover lots of ground in a few seconds. 5 or 10 seconds is a lot of distance! The only 2 deer I've ever had had drop on the shot where with my 45-70 and my 444 Marlin. I like double lunging too. The only deer I ever lost was shot with my 44 mag psitol and I shot that buck through the lungs 3 times.  It ran over 100yds to my brother who killed it with a 30-30 in the neck, but in all fairness the deer was almost dead when it got to him. It was thrashiong and kicking and rolling down teh hill. Heart lung shots rarely kill deer immediatley bang-flop!

[swampthing]

 Animal must have sensed that your "pet load" was coming at him and adrenalized himself as he resorted to his ancient form of monkey kung foo.
 Stuff happens.

[Dee]

Animal must have sensed that your "pet load" was coming at him and adrenalized himself as he resorted to his ancient form of monkey kung foo.
 Stuff happens.

Pet load? He didn't mentioned he used a "PET LOAD"! He should have used a game load. Pet loads are way too light. I takes way more to kill a deer than a poodle.

[swampthing]

A pet load in a 450marlin is a poodle?       

[Dee]

A pet load in a 450marlin is a poodle?       

Wake up there swampthing. "Pet Load" Used for shooting pets! Get it. It's a joke. It takes more to kill a deer than it does a poodle.
Game load to kill game, such as deer. Pet load to kill pets, such as poodles. Are we awake now?

[swampthing]

 Ah, I meant a pet load, was ones "favorite load."
Pet load/light load/game load/big load,  any load would be more than enough for whitetail deer from the 450marlin.

 350g LFN @1600 is my pic.

[Dee]

I know what ya meant. I just made a corny joke out of it.

[HuntAway]

If you want to drop them in their tracks you have two options. Risky 1. Head / High neck shot. Preferred 2. High shoulder shot about six inches below the back. They'll be in the dirt before you recover from the recoil. Good thing is if you are a little high you spine them, a little low your in the shoulder / lungs.

[DirtyDan]

Too tough a bullet, pushed too fast. Save that stuff for Cape buffs. Try cast (350-400gr) and slow down and smell the coffee, around 1400fps.

[Old Time Hunter]

Dirty Dan +1, too much power, too close, too soft a target. The .450 is fine, just slow it down to more traditional .45-70 loads. Never had a problem with the Trapdoor loads, always dropped where they stood. One white tail with the .450M though, hit it right next to the a-hole runn'n away at about 60 yards, it pick that deer up arse over teakettle and landed upside down fifteen yards down wind. Still tried to get up an run without it's left front shoulder that was blown away on exit. Had to shoot it again, this time in the head....didn't get very far without it's head. The .450 is just a tad bit stout for whitetail at 25 yards.

[NONYA]

you intentionally shot a deer running straight away in the ass?

[alan in ga]

caliber/chambering doesn't matter much. If you want to them to not run,,you may just have to take out their "running gear" which means taking out one or both shoulders. I just sacrifice the shoulder meat and take the shot if I don't want them to run [near property line for example].
By the way,,as far as 45 caliber, I've taken deer with a patched round ball [.45], 44 Mag [close at .429"]pistol, 45/70 [jacketed and paper patched bullets], and a 458 Win Mag using 300 JHP Hornadys loaded about 2,400 fps. Shot two does with that bullet,,one dropped,,one ran 15 yards~!
I've killed about 35 other deer with everything from an arrow [ ], a 22 Hornet up thru the .458 Win Mag. I also built a .458x2" American on a Ruger 77 short action but never took a deer with it.
I find it NORMAL for a lung shot deer,even with ONE front shoulder hit,,to RUN FOR 20 TO 50 YARDS~! Using a high velocity LIGHT jacketed hollow point [300 Hornady JHP],,,,you would normally think it would be a guaranteed slam down,,,but it's not always gonna happen.
I base all this on deer I've taken using some of what I remember:

.22 Hornet {2}[one dropped in tracks,,one ran 35 yards-lung shots with controlled expansion 'non' varmint bullet
.250 Savage Ack. Improved {about 5}
.270 Win{4}
30/30 Win{about 3}
30/30 Ack. Imp.{2}
.308 Win{2}
.358 Win {3} won't drop them in tracks guaranteed, either!]
44 mag {1} .250 Keith SWC hard cast. Lung shot ran 100 yards.
.45/70{2}
.458 Win Mag.{2}
12 ga 'rifled slug'{2}
.45 Muzzle loader{2}
.50 Muzzle loader{2}
.
others too, but I forget. In MY opion, it's WHERE you hit the deer with a GOOD bullet.
Alan in GA

[Old Time Hunter]

Nonya, Why not??? Never lost one.  I've shot a few that way, helps to loosen up the in'ards. In all reality, some times it is the only shot I might have, especially in the thick cedar swamps or elder thickets. If I can sneak up a little off line, my best shot is 'bout a 5-10 degree angle behind the ribs going towards the opposite shoulder, takes the heart, lungs, and a shoulder out from the inside out. Saves just 'bout all the meat.

[tanoose]

Bob50j I'm with NONYA i take shoulder shots and don't have to do any tracking  and there isn't much meat loss. I never used the 450 but have taken several NY deer with the 45/70  pushing the hornady 350 round nose around 1900 fps. The only deer i had run off on me was on a lung shot i took on a nice 8. It took off so fast i thought i missed so i took another on the run and put one through the neck. I then saw the hugh hole clear through the lungs, he wouldn'y have run very far .