Author Topic: accuracy (Read 1301 times)

Illhunter · « **on:** December 21, 2006, 09:12:44 AM »

i was wondering of all the mil surplus which ones seem to be the most accurate just wondering which seems better

Terry

TBS · « **Reply #1 on:** December 21, 2006, 10:07:15 AM »

Swiss K-31
Springfield 03a3
Finnish Moisin Nagants
1917 Enfield

Almtnman · « **Reply #2 on:** December 21, 2006, 10:21:47 AM »

My vote goes for the Swiss K-31

Cement Man · « **Reply #3 on:** December 21, 2006, 10:45:52 AM »

I agree with all of the above - plus the Swedish Mausers.

Stan in SC · « **Reply #4 on:** December 21, 2006, 12:08:29 PM »

Add also the Czech Model 98/22.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #5 on:** December 21, 2006, 01:11:47 PM »

I'm going to share a dirty little secret. After literally owning them all I've found that given similar condition and sights just about all bolt action milsurp rifles are on a level playing field as far as accuracy is concerned.

That being said I give the edge to the French MAS36 and 36/51 rifles

jack19512 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 21, 2006, 02:49:12 PM »

Of the various Mosin Nagants. two Swiss K31's, and various 8mm Mauser's I have one K98 is the most accurate of them all.

rockbilly · « **Reply #7 on:** December 21, 2006, 04:03:09 PM »

Without question, the model 96 Swedish Mauser. One of my full military, with handloads, will produce one hole five shot groups at 100 yards. I have two sporized, scoped, model 96s, both are exceptionall accurate., and often take whitetails out to 400 yards.

jh45gun · « **Reply #8 on:** December 21, 2006, 06:04:52 PM »

I agree with the Swedish Mauser and the K31. Why because they were taken care of at least metal and bore wise and they were not really used and abused in any wars and both seem to have inherently accurate cartridges. Now that is not saying examples of other Mausers or Mosins cannot shoot well either but ON THE AVERAGE the two above will have better bores which will lead to better accuracy. Krochus may have a point on most bolts only if they were all in the same shape which we all know are not. I got rid of Turk Mausers and Mosin Nagants and kept the Swede and the Swiss as the others were just average in accuracy so why keep them. I had a Enfield 762 that every one said were such good shooters and I fell for it as I know the 308 is a inherently accurate cartridge only to find out that Enfield was a DOG. It shot terrible yet the crown and bore looked good. Had a 8mm Turk that had a good looking bore too but it was only so so with factory and handloads or milsurp. My Russian Mosins were average at best yet one Polish 44 I bought for a friend shoots like a house afire. I have a Spanish 7mm that the bore may be fine for cast shooting and I kept it as it was salvaged and built from parts and the first gun to get me interested in milsurps so it to me is a keeper no matter how it shoots though I did shoot some cloverleaves with it at 25 yards with factory ammo so I think it has potential.

jack19512 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 22, 2006, 02:33:22 AM »

Quote from: Illhunter on December 21, 2006, 09:12:44 AM

i was wondering of all the mil surplus which ones seem to be the most accurate just wondering which seems better

Terry

I have learned one thing about the mil-surplus rifles. Don't judge the accuracy of them by the mil-surplus ammo you shoot through them. An example would be a M/N M38 of mine.

I almost sold this rifle because it would not shoot worth a crap with the mil-surplus ammo I tried in it.
Since I started reloading for it this rifle has become one of my most accurate rifles.

Almtnman · « **Reply #10 on:** December 22, 2006, 03:08:23 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun on December 21, 2006, 06:04:52 PM

I agree with the Swedish Mauser and the K31. Why because they were taken care of at least metal and bore wise and they were not really used and abused in any wars and both seem to have inherently accurate cartridges.

The Swedish Mauser is accurate and it's my understanding that it cannot withstand the pressure level that a modern day rifle in the same caliber is capable of. The Swiss K-31 on the other hand can withstand some fairly hefty handloads.

jh45gun · « **Reply #11 on:** December 22, 2006, 04:03:17 AM »

You do bring up a excellent point Almtnman as care should be taken with any older milsurp using stouter loads as they are older guns. I do feel the 6.5x55 really does not need to be hotrodded so the pressure issue is kinda moot I feel as it does a wonderful job as is. The Military Mausers will handle anything in the Hornady load books not sure how the others compare as Hornady uses the 96 as a test rifle. Other load books may be different as my older speer book uses the 94 model as a test rifle and their loadings are not as high as the Hornady ones are. Yes Hornady does caution that the 96 cannot withstand the pressures a modern rifle can and Speer was even more so as they used the 94 platform but considering the Swedes used this rifle for years hunting even moose I feel the standard loadings will do the job as they are not hot loadings.

acloco · « **Reply #12 on:** December 22, 2006, 02:16:56 PM »

I have three M96 Swedes and three K31's. Which one would I pick? The rifle that I had the most ammo for!

The Swede just barely edges the K31. About any round that comes out of my press is accurate in these rifles....but stick to the 130+ grain bullets.

bbqsnbeer · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2006, 08:44:11 AM »

I'm getting groups from my M96 that I can cover over with my thumb using the original battle sights . Easily , my most accurate rifle.
( a confession from an Enfield guy ; )

Almtnman · « **Reply #14 on:** December 23, 2006, 09:06:11 AM »

Ya'll are really messing me up, now it looks like I'm gonna have to go to the gun store and get me one of the M96's to go along with my K31.

Casull · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2006, 11:11:09 AM »

Quote

I'm getting groups from my M96 that I can cover over with my thumb using the original battle sights .

Wow. Put a scope on that and you can set a world record in bench rest.

bbqsnbeer · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2006, 05:35:06 AM »

Quote

Wow. Put a scope on that and you can set a world record in bench rest.

What for ??
It's paid for itself by taking bets from disbelievers that this 101yr rifle can outshoot their brand new moose rifles .

Much more satisfing than a world record...lmao

RaySendero · « **Reply #17 on:** December 24, 2006, 06:23:49 AM »

Quote from: Illhunter on December 21, 2006, 09:12:44 AM

i was wondering of all the mil surplus which ones seem to be the most accurate just wondering which seems better

Terry

Terry,

My Swiss K-31 is a SHOOTER! Take a look at rifle and target in the link below:

http://www.precisionshooters.com/ibforum/index.php?showtopic=5011

Casull · « **Reply #18 on:** December 24, 2006, 07:37:59 AM »

Ray, that is some nice shooting. I've been thinking about getting one of the St. Marie mounts for one of my K31's, but seeing your scout scope results, I may have to rethink that.

RaySendero · « **Reply #19 on:** December 25, 2006, 01:03:44 PM »

Quote from: Casull on December 24, 2006, 07:37:59 AM

Ray, that is some nice shooting. I've been thinking about getting one of the St. Marie mounts for one of my K31's, but seeing your scout scope results, I may have to rethink that.

Casull,

I really like the concept of a scout scope on a K-31. This scope is one of the fastest "get-on-target" sights I've ever used and the straight pull bolt is also the fastest working bolt I've shot!

S.S. · « **Reply #20 on:** January 02, 2007, 03:54:23 AM »

96 Swede in 6.5x55 pretty much out paces all the competition
with the exception of the mdl 27 or 28 Nagants that were remade in
Finland. With a good bore, Most of the other surplus rifles are pretty darn accurate
in their own right, but these two really shine.

1911crazy · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2007, 06:49:11 AM »

I have seen my 1907 carl gustaf m96 swede (iron sites) benchrested using sellier&bellot over the counter ammo out shoot some of the swat guys shooting next to me with scoped rifles. They actually came over to me to see what i was shooting? I told them it was a 100yo swede mauser. They told me i was out shooting some of there scoped rifles.

Now with accuracy its a very tough question as to who's more accurate than the rest. While i'm a pretty good shot with any rifle I tend to shoot it first and then i hand it to my son to see how good he shoots it. If we both get the same kind of accuracy then i can confirm the gun is that accurate and i'm sure of that.

Believe it or not even some of the russian mosins are pretty accurate even though there not the tops in a quality manufactured surplus gun they will get the job done for under $99.

Ok with the bolt actions and using surplus or new ammo I see the accuracy between 1 1/2" to 2" groups benchrested with no wind. Remember 'AVERAGE" / OVERALL ACCURACY"

With the military semi-auto's it seems to be within 2" to 3" with a maximun of 4" which still isn't too bad. Again "average"

If you want a small / mid bore bolt action rifle that you can shoot accurately, you can shoot it all day long, without having to pickup your shoulder on the way home the swedish m96 mauser is it.

For something a little bigger its between the swiss k31 and the finnish m39 mosin. I say the m39 because we still see the forsale the m27/m28 are harder to find. Some of the 8mm mausers aren't too far behind these too. The yugo m98 8mm mauser is actually a german 98k 8mm with a yugo label at a yugo price.

I haven't mentioned the enfields or the others yet but i'm willing to bet there in with the average or the average + too in accuracy.

With the semi-auto's i have shot 1 1/2" to 2" groups with the sks's with no scope and under 1" groups with a scope. The french mas 49/56, egyptian hakim, russian svt40 tokarev all shoot around the same in accruacy there very close to each other.

All these guns that were used in wars still have pretty good accuracy even though they may have high milage on them. We must remeber the swiss rifles were never used in a war or shot much.

As far as having the fastest bolt the brittish 303 holds that spot it has the fastest cycling/operating bolt on the planet.

Now is there just one good or great military surplus gun? Thats like asking me which one of my kids is the best. Each one has a quality that stands out. You have to love them all.

Overall the accuracy of these surplus military guns is very impressive. And some of the new rifle manufacturers today say that shooting 2" groups at 100yds is acceptable for there $1,200 gun? (scary) When my $59 chinese norinco sks with norinco ammo will shoot 1 1/2" groups. I only owned modern guns and i thought my bad accuracy was my diabetic eyes/age until i shot the swede so my modern guns don't shoot that good.

Note; If you watched the WW2 story on the russians as the germans pushed them back they were using bombed out factories with no roofs manufacturing weapons and i'm very impressed that the mosins manufactured in those conditions were that good in accuracy. You can judge the whole group of mosins by only one gun. The mausers are the same too. Lets face some of these guns were abused too and probably all of them were too in the war.

If you purchase a finnish mosin becareful of the stock shims in the trigger housing. These were put in during the sight in. Each finnish mosin didn't pass until it shot 1" moa.

With the swedish mausers there is a crown stamped under the stock near the trigger housing. The number of crowns tells us how many times the gun was takin out of service and repaired. To me that just maybe a better shooting gun than the one with no crowns who knows for sure its just my thoughts. If the wood serial number matches the receiver serial number you can believe the stamped crowns.