Alternative to 4x4 truck

[prairiedog555]

I live in the midwest, so no moutains or deep revines like when I lived in Nevada.  So most of my traction problems are snow and mud (traction)  My wife has a Chev Impalla, gets 32 mpg on hwy and has big trunk, best vehichle chev makes. 
Anyway I was thinking why not get used one for me to hunt in?  I will get new 20in rims put on, maybee a skid plate and stiffen suspension.  Has front wheel dr.  Snow tires.
Now I think that will probabally take care of most of my needs, and if I really get stuck carry set of chains.
Most 4x4s do not have limited slip on front wheels, and rear dr. on pickup is practically usless anyway.  Front whl dr. is pretty good in snow and mud.   Clearance is the problem.
when I grew up in 70's nobody I knew had 4x4, or even trucks and we still got out in the sticks,  I am searching for aftermarket rims right now.
I always wondered why automakers did not offer front wheel dr. on pickups.  I think the answer is that they make so much more on 4x4's, and WE buy them. 

[30-30man]

Your going to think I'm nuts but my first hunting vehicle that was used strictly for hunting,  was a 79 Cheverolet Chevette. I payed $200 for it. I owned a truck but it was a gas hog.  I gave it a needed rest.  I had a come along and chains in the hatchback when I got stuck which was rarely.  I use cement blocks to weigh the rear wheels down.  I had plastic for the back seat. I had a CB for communication.  You could say it was redneck heaven.  I only got stuck twice and man how I missed my buddies reactions.  They would laugh and laugh at that little car.  You couldn't kill that vehicle. It would glide over most mud holes if you picked up enough speed.  Some of my buddies would get stuck in their 4x4's after trying to follow me.  That was a great feeling.   It didn't have much power so the back wheels wouldn't dig themselves in the sand we have here in SC. I never changed the oil and never checked it.  Tires cost about twenty bucks a piece for snow tires, it got 28mpg and lasted for 250,000 miles before the front axles broke on me one day. I sold it to the junk yard with a tear in my eye.  It was still running when I sold it, it just didn't have front wheels. I have looked around for another Chevette like it but they are just not around anymore.

[R.W.Dale]

 The reason you don't see FWD trucks (besides FWD being a crappy way to drive any vehicle) is what happens to the front of a truck when you put 1200 lbs of whatever in the bed?

 Last year you could have seen me in an 86 Saab 900 with a car load of guns and gear and a couple of ice chests full of deer on the roof rack.

[MI VHNTR]

prairiedog555, if you're going to look at used vehicles, why not look at a 4x4 Chevy/Geo Tracker?  They've got a 1.6 L 4 that gives very good mileage while running off road. The use of 4x4 doesn't really suck up too much more gasoline either. I've been running one since late July and it's done pretty much everything that I've needed it to do. It won't replace a 4x4 pickup, but if all that you want it for is hunting, it might do the job for you. FWIW.  MI VHNTR

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

20inch rims are worthless for ground clearance. its a bigger rim yes but you then have to use expensive low profile tires.  Best thing to do it buy a 2wd truck and add a posi rearend. All the new chevy trucks come standard with posi units.  ford/toyota/dodge dont offer that in their trucks.

[prairiedog555]

I have a 2000 silverado 2wd now with standard all terrain tires.  It does not have good traction.  I put 200lb of sand bags in rear of bed.  better, but still not what I need for snow and mud.  I have been trying to get some chains.  Found some cable chains on ebay.  have 265x75x16 tires.
I know my wifes fwd car has much better traction. 
Just trying to save gas and to get out more.  I have a bad feeling that gas is going way up soon.  Hate staying home when weather is wet. 

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Pickups have zero weight in the rear thats why they pretty much suck in mud/snow. if you dont have a posi rear end, you should look into it and invest in chains. i'd shy away from cable chains, they have a  habbit of coming apart.

[hillbill]

i like that idea about the 4x4 tracker, they are a good rig and with a small lawn mower trailer or such they will hual about as much as a 1/2 ton pickup. if i was going for a car id look into a small jap car or a older amc eagle station wagon 4 wd. my nissan sentra will go bout anywhere till snow is rubbing on the bottom of the bumper.

[Snowshoe]

I just watch where I hunt and tend to walk more now. I sold my Ford F150 and Escort and we got a mini van.The money I save on insurance and gas has already put a new muzzleloader on order. A big rubber mat and a tarp keep the van nice and clean.

[quickdtoo]

I've always had a 4x4, but have changed my ways since I no longer need one for any real rough stuff, mostly just unimproved  logging roads, some impassable when wet without 4WD. But I do need the AWD capability sometimes for some sloppy stuff or snow/ice. With gas prices what they are, but still needing a vehicle that will tow my small hunting trailer and my boat, was down to a Chevy Trailblazer until Toyota made their Rav4 bigger and put a V6 in it with a tow capacity of 3500lbs. Now I more or less get my cake and can eat it too!! 19-20mpg around town, 26-27mpg on the hiway and still can tow or have mild offroad capability. Works fine for me and the wife even likes it!!

Tim

[Redhawk1]

Sorry to say there is no alternative for a 4X4. How many cars run off the road into a 8 inch ditch and get stuck? How many 2 wheel drive truck get stuck in an 8 inch ditch? Well I see a lot of them and pull them out.  The ground clearance and traction alone will get you out with a 4X4.  Chains are useless unless you have them one from the get go. Bury your car or 2 wheel drive truck and you will be there all day trying to put on chains, just to find out you are high centered. The only alternative is a 4 wheeler. JMHO. 

I have not owned a 2 wheel drive car or truck for over 25 years now. I just don't see myself in anything but a 4 wheel drive vehicle. Even if it is just to get me to 7 eleven for a gallon of milk on a cold snowy day.

[R.W.Dale]

Sorry to say there is no alternative for a 4X4. How many cars run off the road into a 8 inch ditch and get stuck? How many 2 wheel drive truck get stuck in an 8 inch ditch? Well I see a lot of them and pull them out.  The ground clearance and traction alone will get you out with a 4X4.  Chains are useless unless you have them one from the get go. Bury your car or 2 wheel drive truck and you will be there all day trying to put on chains, just to find out you are high centered. The only alternative is a 4 wheeler. JMHO. 

I have not owned a 2 wheel drive car or truck for over 25 years now. I just don't see myself in anything but a 4 wheel drive vehicle. Even if it is just to get me to 7 eleven for a gallon of milk on a cold snowy day.

 BUT.......If somebody doesn't have the driving skill to use a 4x4 on the slick stuff I.E. using the long skinny petal to turn, they aren't any better of than if they were in any other vehicle. After all 4x4 DOES NOT help you stop and does not keep you from flying off the road into a cow pasture at 40 mph.

 I drive a Jeep and have done much 4 wheeling over the years. But for the sake of getting from point A to B I've only "needed" a 4x4 only a few times. A 4x2 truck or even a RWD car with a good limitesd slip diffrental and a set of craggy tires will get you down just about anything that resembles a maintained road

[Redhawk1]

You are right, but one must use common since.  Sure 80% of my driving could be a 2 wheel drive. But when I want the 4X4 it is there. 

[30-30man]

I've never owned a four wheel drive except a tractor.  I never needed one either. I just drive around the ditches and drive around the deep mud holes.  Find any front wheel drive car and you can go just about anywhere if you buy a piece of crap.  I mean my old Chevette went everywhere because I just didn't care about it.  If I got stuck, I had a winch.   I could count on my hands how many times I got stuck.  I never stayed stuck long.  It was the adventure more than ego.  People will tell you that you can't hunt without the biggest, badest truck 4x4.  The fact is many hunters use cheap equipment and are quite sucessful at it.  Buy ya a cheap car that you can buy parts for.  A hatchback or mini station wagon is the best. A Ford Escort Station wagon is about just as good as my Chevette was.  I use one now almost every hunting trip.  It has front wheel drive, gets 30+ mpg, has a cargo area large enough for a deer,(use plastic)andyou even have enough room for a buddy.  You'll laugh at your buddies while they have to work overtime just to make the payments.

[Thebear_78]

see how far your cars even front wheel drive get you when there is 8-12" of fresh snow on the ground, then see what it does when you get 4-6" of snow for 3-4 days straight.  Some places a 4 wheel drive is needed.   I will pay the little more for gas for the ability to go more places and pull heaveir stuff.  I drive a 06 chevy silverado 2500 HD with the biggest BF Goodrich All terrain tires that will fit underneath it.  Over 400 horses  that will pull and push me anywhere I want to go.  I rarely have to use the 4x4 but when I do, you wouldn't get far without it. 

Try pulling a heavy boat and trailer up a slick boat ramp in a 4x2 or 2wd suv,  chances are you will end up pretty wet.  Most of the places we drive to are just to cut down on the amount of time spent on a snowmachine or 4 wheeler.  I doubt too many 4x2 can haul a trailer full of 4 wheelers or snowmachines thru the soupy stuff either.

[R.W.Dale]

You are right, but one must use common since.  Sure 80% of my driving could be a 2 wheel drive. But when I want the 4X4 it is there. 

I feel the same way that's why I own a Wrangler. Most of my usage of 4x4 involves getting up really steep inclines, But really for me that's more a function of having a low range than the locked in front axle. And is also why aside from a Subaru wagon I'll never bother to pay for a 4x4 vehicle that does NOT have a 2 speed locking transfer case.

[prairiedog555]

The whole idea of this discussion is about economy.  High gas and insurance cost for a 4x4.  If I wanted optimum hunting vehicel money no object I would get a Hummer.  but I live in an area that is midwest farmland where I can begin hunting 5min from home.  Sometimes I feel like driving around just to get out and see what I can see, and don't because roads are muddy. (this silt is like toothpaste)  and maybe to take a 2-3 hr trip to go somewhere else. but don't because of gas cost and chance of getting stuck.   And what do you need a 4x4 for the rest of the year.  Now I understand that if you live in the great white north you might need 4x4 a lot more.  Or a Rancher, But I was looking for economical alternative.  I also know that most 4x4's are equiped without posi traction, so one wheel turns in front and one in back.  I ordered my 4x4 with posi in the rear not in front because conventional wisdom was it was dangerous to have in front in ice conditions.  (i wish I would have)  So I think that FWD is superior to MOST 4x4, not what you knowledgebale 4x4 guys have, or trick out.   I am looking for a hunting AKA used vehichle to beat around in.  So I think the drawback to FWD in a car is Clearance, and how to fix that.  I was looking for direction on how to increase clearance, like bigger rims and tires (higher) and skid plate.
I know from talking to Old Timers that the Model T's with high clearance and skinny tires were great in mud and snow. My mechanic who is an avid 4x4 guy concurs that tall skinny tires are best in mud and snow, but hard to find.  If you get a tall tire it is wide.  Any body have an alternative?

[R.W.Dale]

 You my friend need to find an 80's vintage Subaru DL wagon equipped with AWD. I had one that I paid $400 for and it was great for what you describe.

 But like another poster suggested a Tracker/Sidekick would be the perfect vehicle for what you describe. They are practically worthless on the used marked, yet they're dependable and get great fuel economy. They also have a wonderfull charistic of being narrower than most ruts on bittomland roads.


 As to insurance The liability coverage on my Jeep wrangler is the same price as on my Chevrolet Caprice sounds like you need to switch companys.

I ordered my 4x4 with posi in the rear not in front because conventional wisdom was it was dangerous to have in front in ice conditions.  (i wish I would have)  So I think that FWD is superior to MOST 4x4

 You're operating under the assumption that FWD cars pull with both front wheels. This is a false assumption. Only a select few high preformance FWD cars have anything other than an open diffrental in the front. You should see the one legged burnout my Maxima will do . Wich means you'll only have one tire pulling

 In my opinion the ONLY way a 4x4 is going to be any benefit whatsoever on ice is to have a locked front diffrental. But you have to know how to drive it in those situations. You have to drive it like a boat and use the throttle to turn.

[30-30man]

I often thought as many people do as far as material things go.  I got into bass fishing with all the toys a long time ago.  I bought a new bass boat, fishing gear from Pro Bass shops and thousands of expensive lures.  Then I took my father fishing.  He kicked my butt everytime with live bait and a cane pole or a Zebco 33.  I was making payments of almost $400 a month at the time.  I have since sold the boat adn bought something I didn't have to make payments on.  I learned that money doesn't always mean more fun or success in the outdoors.
Well I live in the deep South and I have no idea what snow is.  I've only seen it maybe five times in my life.  I Hunt cheap and let the other fellows make the truck payments. You don't need 400 hp to pull a trailer or go through snow. It would be nice but most of us don't need it or can't afford it.  Jeep made a 4wd station wagon called an Eagle in the mid 80's.  I bet you could find one of those cheap.   A new truck 4wd would be nice but I'd rather spend the $600 a month on other stuff myself like groceries.  Sam Walton drove an old Ford truck his whoile life becasue that is all he needed.   He could afford more but the old Ford met his needs. When I bought a truck to pull my camper, I bought a 2wd Dodge with a gas 5.9.  Many people said that I needed a diesel.  Well I've pulled my camper from one end of this country to another and my truck struggled up the hills just like the diesels.   Buy what you can afford and don't listen to the hecklers.  If I did , I would have been in the poor house a long time ago..I just don't think the majority of us need 4wd. Heck most people are less than $1000 from taking out another loan .  That is if they had a crisis, most people would only have less than $1000 before they were broke.  Why, because they send all their money away in payments on everything they own.  HUNT CHEAP! Be Happy!

[str8shooter48]

None. You may not need it most of the time but when you do you really appreciate it. Just push the button and go.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

1992 Isuzu Rodeo 4x4, 3.1v6/5 speed. Tons of room, Lots of ground clearance, Not to narrow but narrow enough to get into tight spots and come out with both mirrors. Gets 20MPG @ 75mph and 26.5 @65. Its our best hunting truck we ever owned. Those big huge knobby baloon tires that everyone thinks are great will get you stuck faster than you'd think. You can have knobby tires on a 4x4 pickup but if you dont have weight in the bed, its not getting far in deep snow/mudd. If you want a real 4x4, buy  a Willys jeep Pickup. One of the best 4x4's ever built. Heck if you dont like going slow, just drop in a 3.8 buick v6 and get back into action.

The whole idea of this discussion is about economy.  High gas and insurance cost for a 4x4.  If I wanted optimum hunting vehicel money no object I would get a Hummer.  but I live in an area that is midwest farmland where I can begin hunting 5min from home.  Sometimes I feel like driving around just to get out and see what I can see, and don't because roads are muddy. (this silt is like toothpaste)  and maybe to take a 2-3 hr trip to go somewhere else. but don't because of gas cost and chance of getting stuck.   And what do you need a 4x4 for the rest of the year.  Now I understand that if you live in the great white north you might need 4x4 a lot more.  Or a Rancher, But I was looking for economical alternative.  I also know that most 4x4's are equiped without posi traction, so one wheel turns in front and one in back.  I ordered my 4x4 with posi in the rear not in front because conventional wisdom was it was dangerous to have in front in ice conditions.  (i wish I would have)  So I think that FWD is superior to MOST 4x4, not what you knowledgebale 4x4 guys have, or trick out.   I am looking for a hunting AKA used vehichle to beat around in.  So I think the drawback to FWD in a car is Clearance, and how to fix that.  I was looking for direction on how to increase clearance, like bigger rims and tires (higher) and skid plate.
I know from talking to Old Timers that the Model T's with high clearance and skinny tires were great in mud and snow. My mechanic who is an avid 4x4 guy concurs that tall skinny tires are best in mud and snow, but hard to find.  If you get a tall tire it is wide.  Any body have an alternative?

[jgalar]

How about this...
http://www.imz-ural.com/gearup/
watch the videos

[Lloyd Smale]

Im with Redhawk. I live in snow country and wouldnt be without a 4x4 truck and to me that means a fullsized truck at least 1/2 ton. The little 4x4s are cute and will get you into the woods but for the most part dont have enough ground clearance and dont have the power you need to tow anything and what the heck are you going to do with your deer after you shoot it! strap it on the hood! Theres nothing more practical then a full sized pickup. Thats why there the best selling models of just about every american manufacturer. Most of them get almost as good of gas milage as the small trucks. (as long as you stick to a 1/2 ton) Ride as good as a car and will haul, tow, or go anything anywhere.

You are right, but one must use common since.  Sure 80% of my driving could be a 2 wheel drive. But when I want the 4X4 it is there. 

[LEO]

I am a big believer in 4x4 but with that said, I have done 90% or so of my hunting this year out of a 93 Escort.  The result, there have been a few times when I had to walk a little farther because of a wash or mud hole, I have got to hunt more because I can hunt all week on a tank of gas as opposed to a tank every 2 days.  I got some funny looks but I got to where I wanted to hunt even if in a couple of places I did have to walk an extra 1/4 mile (not a big thing to me).  It is kind of interesting to get a treestand and other associated hunting junk in and out of the trunk but it can be done (fold down the rear seats and carry a sheet of plastic).  I was so satisfied with the outcome that I am probably going to find me an older cheap minivan or station wagon and turn it into a dedicated hunting vehicle.  I like the idea of a minivan in that it also provides a dry place out of the wind to sleep if you want to stay overnight without the aggravation of actually setting up a tent.  Of course there are still places where I will have to take my 4x4 but for most hunting this should work fine.  By the way where I hunt at there is rarely snow during the hunting season and the USFS does a good job of keeping the roads maintained so mud isn't too big of an issue in most places.  As far as getting stuck the big red devil come along will pull these small vehicles with ease and usually the difference between stuck and not is about 6 inches.  Plus the savings in wear and tear and fuel would soon pay for a cheap used mini van which are fairly easy to come by.

[kyelkhunter3006]

Do you need a 4x4 for outdoors?  Well, unless you get snow or mud up to your hips on a regular basis, I don't think you do. 

I spent many a time back in high school and college with my 92 Sunbird driving on river banks, through mud, heck, I even took it into the river a couple times.  One day, at a local hot spot, a guy brought his Jeep Wagoneer down the bank and across the river, and almost went into shock when he saw me and my 'Bird sitting where he wanted to go.  It hauled deer, turkeys, and anything else I could fit in it. 

I haven't had a 4x4 for about 4 years, the motor blew and I haven't bothered to get another.  I would like another truck or SUV, just because I miss the cargo room, and I prefer to sit up a bit higher in a vehicle when driving.  I don't think I'm going to get a 4x4 next time. I'll use the money I save and get a brand new quad.     It'll get used a lot more than the 4x4 on a truck.

 I've been using my Taurus or an older mini-van for everything, and it's been just fine.  I take the van up hills, down hills, and just about anywhere I don't feel like walking to.  No, I don't cross ditches with it, or climb rock, etc.  And it doesn't cost a fortune to drive anyplace. 

I've been trying to talk the wife into getting her a new van, so I can use the old one for my outdoor stuff full-time, but it hasn't happened yet.  On second thought, a nice truck and a new quad would probably be a bit better anyhow.

[Keith L]

I hear it all the time from my Brother in California that we don't need our 4X4s here.  But between mud spring and fall, and the normal snow load we get in winter here in Wisconsin (although you couldn't tell it this year) I will likely always keep one in the family.  Gas prices has me commuting to work in a small sedan, and we just replaced my wife's explorer with a front wheel drive Chevy HHR, but my old truck is still here, and will get us through when the weather requires it.

No doubt you can get along without one, but life is easier here if you have a 4x4.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

I'd love to see anyone pull a small camper into my hunting area lol or better yet, up my drive way after the snow melts. Ive walked out of my boots before when walking in my hunting area in the mud. Some of the 4x4 trails we have area here, a 2wd or fwd looks at it and trys. You should have seen these die hard yuppies taking their toyota rav4 up this one trail lol, OMG just thinking of it makes me want to pee my pants with laughter, Anyways they were taking it up this trail with good size rocks and deep ditchs, well not only did they high center it, the front end smashed right into a rock that was at the bottom of the ditch. Its amazing what people try to do with  these suv's with 6" of ground clearance. But i guarantee that during the rainy/snowy season at my house or my hunting area, you'd be calling for a tow.

[prairiedog555]

I have a Chev 1500 2wd.  I got stuck in my driveway after this latest ice storm, it is a good truck, just no traction.  I can see only one tire spinning.  Here is my question;

What would it take to get posi traction on this truck.  New rear end or ?

When I look for another car or truck how can I tell if it has posi without watching the wheels spin?

We have two other cars, a chev impalla that one wheel spins and a ford tauras that does pull with both front wheels.  Big difference.

thanks guys.

[Keith L]

Posi will require replacing the rear end.  It used to be fairly simple to remove the assembly with the differential and gears from the housing and replacing with a positraction fitted unit.  I don't know if that is still true having given up on working on cars 30 years ago.

On ice positraction may not do what you want.  Glare ice will just have both wheels spinning and you going around in circles.  Without chains or something similar you may be worse off than you are now.

[R.W.Dale]

For about 200 bucks (if you shop wizely) you can buy a product that'll replace the spider gears in the diffrental and give a very posititve locking of the axles without loosing the ability to turn or drive on dry pavement.
http://www.powertrax.com/noslip.html

When I look for another car or truck how can I tell if it has posi without watching the wheels spin?

without reading the option sheet you really won't know. But you can assume that unless there's some kind of towing , preformance or off road package option that 95% of cars have an open diff