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Offline Cuts Crooked

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)*(& #$&#*@ Smokeless!!!!!
« on: April 28, 2003, 12:49:17 PM »
AHRG!!!

Jist got done cleanin up irons from yesterdays match and I gotta tell ya, I b'leive I'm 'bout ready ta throw away ebbery single canister of that danged smokeless stuff I own!  

Happens I now own two complete sets of CAS guns and take them all with me to matches in case some new pard would like to give it a whirl. Well, yestiday there wuz a new feller there and took me up on the offer of guns to shoot the match wif. I always have smokeless loads with me jist fer such an occassion so I set him up 'n turned him loose! He had the time of his life and before he left he joined our local club, even before getting his own guns! :grin:

Leaving me with gunz ta clean! Three patches apiece fer alla my Darkside guns 'n they's purty much ready ta go in the safe..........'bout half a hundred patches later I finally got the ones shot wif that nasty smokeless crap clean! :x
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Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2003, 02:41:04 PM »
Ok, now I've got a question for ya.  How do you explain to "outsiders" that after the initial removal of all the smokless powder and jacketed bullet crap/crud out of your pistols (or rifles) that cleanup on that old nasty, dirty, sooty plack powder is soooo much easier than trying to clean smokless? :?:  :?:  :?:
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Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
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tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline Cuts Crooked

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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2003, 11:11:45 PM »
I'm not sure how one would go about explaining that mi Amigo! Perhaps it is a simple misperception that has been perpetuating itself for a long time?

BP residue LOOKS dirty! It's black after all. Combined with the need to clean asap to avoid the corrosiveness, this may the basis for this misperception.

Smokeless residue, while not corrosive in nature, seems to be very persistant, clinging to steel far more aggressively and requiring a lot more elbow grease to reach the "clean patch" point! But folks don't think about it much because A. they aren't concerned about the "clean patch" point when cleaning smokeless. and B. They don't have to clean poste haste after shooting because they aren't concerned about corrosion. (and I strongly suspect that most folks aren't really all that concerned with pulling a final patch out of the barrel that is as white when comes out as when it went down bore! What they're really concerned with is getting oil in there!)

The best way I can think of to correct this misperception would be to sit down with a smokeless shooter and clean your guns side by side, stipulating the "Clean Patch Rule" as the finished point! :)
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Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Pigeonroost Slim

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)*(& #$&#*@ Smokeless!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2003, 02:21:35 AM »
Cuts, I'm a' call'n ya out!  The only irons I can clean with three patches and put away fer long term storage is my squirrel rifle or other percussion front stuffer.  Even at that I gotta wipe the exterior and flush the nipple; and those three patches will each make several trips down the tube -- in fact the first one will be rinsed a few times.

My revolvers are easily cleaned in regards to the barrels, but I do have to remove the cylinder and clean each chamber too and wipe the frame, and clean the action nooks and crannies.  The lever rifle needs the lever and bolt removed to breech clean and I wipe the internal receiver area with a damp ballistol/water paper towel.  Plus external cleaning.  Now the shot gun, yep, a wad of wed paper towelling pushed thrugh a couple of times and them a bore mop with Ballistol will get 'er done, plus wiping the externals.  Still, soooooooooooooo much easier than the heathern smokieless fodder.

Am I pretty much do'n as you do; or am I exaggerating my misery? :-D
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2003, 05:04:24 AM »
Revolters git one wet patch through the bore 'n chambers (repeated wetting of that patch with my Ballistol mix) followed by second damp patch (jist damp, not saturated) then dry patch through all, and wipe outside with paper towel dampened with straight Ballistol. Set every thing under the fan while I go to the next gun. When both six gunz 'r done  under the fan they git put away. I only do a complete tear down twice a year on them.

Riflegun gits cleaned jist prezactly like a front stuffer! I put a fired case in the chamber, close the action, and hit it with a wet patch from the muzzle,  then damp patch, then dry patch....period! Open the action and clean the chamber with a ballistol soaked patch and put 'r away! Again, complete tear down twice a year! :grin:
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Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Mason Stillwell

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)*(& #$&#*@ Smokeless!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2003, 02:50:17 AM »
Lots of Smokeless shooters that I know dont even clean the guns. Maybe every other year. Says it wears out the gun. Go figure???

Cuts what rifle do you use for the bp. Iam using a 73 and take the side plates off for cleaning.


Got me a beautiful 66. Will not, I repeat WILL NOT shoot bp. It lockes up everythime I try to shoot it. I am about to turn it into a boat paddle.
Got any suggestions??????
It is in the same cal as my 73 /45 colt

Mason
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2003, 04:55:08 AM »
Howdy Mason,

I'm shooting Rossi 92s for lever gunz! One is my .38-22 (.357) and the other is in .45 Colt. I just acquired the .45 recently, the previous owner was frustrated by the blowback in his BP loads. I have very little, if any, blowback with my loads. I use WW brass and put a card wad under the slugs. I don't have any idea why but the addition of the card wad makes a huge difference in blowback for me.

In an aside, I loaded a bunch of brass last night and paid attention to the amount of force needed on the press to resize the different brands of brass I was using. It surprized me!

WW brass seemed to take the least amount of force on the lever. However I'm talking WW headstamps there!  RP brass was next up for least amount of force used, The brass stamped Winchester took much more pressure on the lever, followed by a Starline which was VERY pronounced in needing a lot of muscle on the lever!

Not very scientific, I know, but thems my observations! I was very surprized by the difference b'twixt "Winchester" and "WW". Maybe one of the two headstamps is from a contract supplier for Winchester?
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Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Greybeard

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)*(& #$&#*@ Smokeless!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2003, 07:29:11 AM »
Yew boys is jist too dang fastidious. Shooting smokeless I come home and use a rag to wipe them down and then put them away. Been doing it this way fer 40+ years with no ill effects yet. Only time I need to clean them up is about every 500 rounds er so and not always that often. Then I spend about 10 minutes doing it.

GB
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Offline Pigeonroost Slim

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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2003, 08:10:57 AM »
Hey Ho Marshall Graybeard!

If'n ya used to shoot bullets and are now shoot'n real boolits; or even if'n ya have been shoot'n real boolits all along ya had better be looking to see if'n yer rifleing is leaded up and such.  If it is, use oooo grade steel wool and Borebutter to clean it right out and still be within yer 10 minute limit.
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Offline Lead pot

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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2003, 05:23:46 PM »
Cuts.
have you used that Ballistol on a case color? I have read some guys having a problem with it taking some of the coloring off.Lp.
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2003, 03:44:34 AM »
Yeah, I've been using it on my Remmies with no problems to the case coloring. I suspect that the stuff might indeed play havoc with it if left bathed in the stuff, but I just use a rag dampened with it to wipe down my guns.

The initial reports concerning Ballistol and destruction of case hardening came from a feller who left his case hardened part immersed in a plastic container of Balllistol/water mix overnight. I don't  do that sort of thing  :shock: . I do have a much older Remmie that has the case colors worn off the loading gate from long use, where my thumb opens and closes it but that is not unusual. Case hardening will wear on any gun with use, it's just the nature of the beasty!
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Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Silver Creek Slim

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)*(& #$&#*@ Smokeless!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2003, 08:49:17 AM »
When I shot smokeless in my pistols, I would get leading of the forcing cone and barrel grooves. I would spend about 5 mins each pistol brushing the lead out. With BP, I get no leading at all.  :mrgreen:  It saves me at least 10 mins when cleaning my guns.  :D

Slim
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Offline 1buba

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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2004, 06:32:14 AM »
This discussion (VERY informative by the way) begs the question for this newbie - what the heck did the cowboys/buff hunters do with their guns while on the range?  No fancy cleaners, no fans...  Not meant as a slap, it just really is mind bendin.

Thanks,
steve
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Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2004, 07:54:15 AM »
Bubba, plain ol' water is the best solvent going for black powder, a little grease, be it bear or axel when your finished is all that's really necessary.
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Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline 1buba

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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2004, 07:01:31 AM »
Thanks Mr Butler!

My great granddad rode heard during his early years, even during his fathering days (18 kids total, 9 with the first and she died - who wouldn't, then 9 more with the second - no, weren't mormons).  I know there were several times he was out for 6 months or more and the saying from my granddad is "sometimes he went 3-4 months without seeing a white man."  I'm sure showers weren't much in abundance and the grease would have been plentiful - if only in their hair.  :-)


thanks again,
steve
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