Why no WSM or WSSM calibers in the Handi rifles?

[coyote trapper1928]

Anyone know why there are no WSM OR WSSM calibers chambered in the Handi-Rifles?

[gould]

I think the pressures are to high . The frames will stretch. A 25 wssm would have been great to.

[coyote trapper1928]

The frame on a Handi-rifle is weak???

[quickdtoo]

The short mags aren't even available in the TC Encore, a much stronger action. The case head size and working pressure is well beyond the design limits of the underlug which is the weak link, a current production frame is very strong, but the under latch allows for some frame flex which might fail eventually. It would most likely be possible to use start loads in a Handi, but to use factory ammo would ruin the underlug in short time and also may damage the frame. I'm sure Mac will offer his experience with his 300WSM barrel shortly.

Tim

[Mac11700]

As Quick already stated...The under lug is what will take the battering first...and it won't hold up to the pressures of any of the short mags at their full potential...I spoke with JoJohn at vihtavuori after buying Handi35's 300 WSM converted 308 barrel..and he gave me the data to use with it as not to run too high of pressures in it..He was aware of the PSI limitations of the Handi's and stated so to me..The compatible loads will all be at the starting loads and slightly above with certain powders...not the full range of what is available..Keeping all of the loads at 50,000kpsi or below..with 50,000kpsi as the absolute ceiling..The Lyman 48th edition shows these start loads..and shows what one can do with them...I bought the barrel from Handi35 knowing this...and once I have some loads worked up..I will be posting what the results are....Handi35 ran 3 full pressure factory loads thru this barrel...and then tried 100 hand loads using the data from the Nosler reloading manual...100 loads at those pressures..he had already stretched the under lug...The frame is still good...and no damage was done to it..He has other barrels on it..and they are all fine..

Mac

[3006bluffhunter]

On another forums on GBO..They were talking about firearms companies dropping the short mags ....because of the lack of public demand for the wssm &wsm........If short mag has less recoil and better distance we still don't need it......we've got all i need in the old calibers45-70  30-06 30-30 270 243 22-250 223.....wsm &wssm will be like 5mm remington good shooting rounds just NO DEMAND!

[gould]

I think the wsm in 270,7mm, and 300 are doing great. The wssm in 243 and 223 are suffering the 25 wssm isnt doing to bad (I have one of these) a lot of peaple are getting them for there kids the 25 cal. is hard to beat on whitetails and the recoil is very light.

[smdavis1020]

I am no fan of any of the short, fat and ugly new stuff, but I am concerned about the discussion of the potential weakness of the underlug. My primary use of the handi rifle is to experiment with the 500 S&W which (according to the literature) is 65K psi using factory ammunition. Most of my activity is centered on pushing heavy lead bullets at just below the speed of sound. I doubt if I will ever threaten the underlug with that program; however, I have a box of Hornady 500 grain XTP’s that gives me more physical pain at the bench than my M70 .458 WM.

Should I shelve the rest of the box of Hornady’s? Is the Handi rifle at long term risk using factory ammunition? I guess you could give everyone a box of those darn Hornaday’s with each rifle and you would not have to worry about them shooting it too much.

Thanks for all the good work. BTW anyone know what the twist on the Handi Rifle with 500 S&W is?

Steve

[MSP Ret]

Merchandising, pure and simple, we would have done fine with the short fat ugly stuff, but then how were the gun companies going to sell that many new guns without a gimmick....<><....

P.S. - the twist rate on the .500 S&W is reported to be 1 in 18 3/4....<><....

[smdavis1020]

The Beowulf 50 Entry Rifle Upper is 1:19 so 1:18 and some is just perfect to keep my mould development on track. I could not have asked for better if I planned it.

I agree on the Madison Avenue appoach to cartridge design but the 500 S&W was a long held hope of getting a modern 50/70 equivalent. I built a Beowulf last year but Bill Alexander warned against my cast load work for fear of clogging the gas port.

Thank you for your response.

Steve

[Capone]

Ive been seeing alot of stuff about the frames streching, Has anyone tried having one cryo treated to bring the strength of the metal up?

[sealer]

mac11700-
just a quick question and it is hypothetical--- what if- after your passing away or some other reason, a family member,friend,or even a stranger gets ahold of this barrel or gun and starts shooting factory loads or worse -- some hot handloads through it and it blew up and injured someone or worse. i know you might not ever know about it,but that is not what i would want to happen if it were mine.
just curious
thanks,dennis

[Mac11700]

mac11700-
just a quick question and it is hypothetical--- what if- after your passing away or some other reason, a family member,friend,or even a stranger gets ahold of this barrel or gun and starts shooting factory loads or worse -- some hot handloads through it and it blew up and injured someone or worse. i know you might not ever know about it,but that is not what i would want to happen if it were mine.
just curious
thanks,dennis

Dennis:

I'll gladly answer you on this.I think it very important to not only have the correct nomenclature stamped on any barrel to what loads are safe to use in it...but also to have a detailed journal of all of my firearms that can a will be utilized if I should suddenly die..leaving my firearms to the estate.In the case of this particular barrel..If I elect to keep it as is...and continue utilizing it as  300 WSM...it will be stamped "Hand loads Only" and a copy of my loadings will be available for it if sold or another family member acquires it.If I change it to some other caliber by some other means..all information will accompany this particular barrel..My family has been made aware of what to do in such case...

Mac

[Capone]

I think the wsm in 270,7mm, and 300 are doing great. The wssm in 243 and 223 are suffering the 25 wssm isnt doing to bad (I have one of these) a lot of peaple are getting them for there kids the 25 cal. is hard to beat on whitetails and the recoil is very light.

Arent there barrel life problems with the wssm's, I rember reading something about that somewhere quite awhile back.

[smdavis1020]

Great Scott - these last questions ... Cryo is more about stress relief than strength.. more how a system reacts dimensionally than all phases of thermodynamics. As to the other stuff ask a lawyer, nothing they do has a mathematical context anyway, only what some under-educated provincial judge decides on.

The good ole country boy answer is: take every used gun as an unknown and work up from there. Otherwise, buy new and let the lawyers take the field.

[sealer]

cool & well thought out.
thanks,dennis