Author Topic: 357 mag barrel rechamber to 357-44 b&d (Read 3186 times)

Sharps-Nut · « **on:** January 03, 2007, 03:20:20 AM »

I would like to mess with a 357-44 but the original barrels fetch a little more yen than I care to spend for a shooter. I was wondering if a 357 mag common and usually in 100. price range could be rechambered for the round and would it have the correct twist rage for that much fps. I can rent a reamer and go no go's for 36.00 so the cost of the conversion would be minimal and there are two of wanting to perform the same conversion. Anyone ever do this or hear of it being done? Anybody ever play with the 357/44 b & d, is it as good as it reads to be, seems like less trouble to form cases than a harrett and just as good. Thoughts and opinions appreciated. Thanks Steve

RonF · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2007, 04:19:14 AM »

I can't see any reason this wouldn't work, and I imagine it's been done often. Twist shouldn't be a problem, as at any given time all .357/.358 T/C barrels are the same twist regardless of caliber. I used to have a .357/.44 in a Contender and it was a good shooter, but I also have a .35 Rem which saw most of the action so I sold it. I have a .357/.44 barrel for my Merrill pistol and have used it on deer with good results. It does kick, though, with the grip design of the Merrill. As far as I can tell, performance is about identical to the .357 Max. Case forming is a piece of cake. Go ahead and do it, and have fun!

RonF

jw4570 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2007, 09:38:18 AM »

I would contact SSK, they do it pretty reasonable (maybe $80). Don't forget, you'll need a new extractor. Might be worth it to have someone do it. I think you'll need to have a Bull Barrel to do it.

I have a 357 Automag Barrel which is a 44 Automag necked down to 357 for my my Contender. I had posted some data last year but it's difficult to find as the search feature doesn't work. It's probably about the same performance level.

JW

Sharps-Nut · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2007, 11:59:37 AM »

Yea my smith is going top get the job. He's sorta a famous fellow in the black powder cartridge rifle circles and works on a fair rate. Surely an hour of shop time will catch the job. I took a gunsmith class and built a rifle but if you break the reamer you bought it so I'll let the pro have a go at it. Gotta find a cheap 10" bull 357 barrel first. Thanks for the input Steve

Gregory · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2007, 12:49:38 PM »

I don't want to burst your bubble if you have your heart set on a 357 B&D, but you can rechamber a 357 Mag to a 357 Max and get the same or slightly better ballistics as well as the advantage of being able to use relatively low cost carbide 357 Mag dies for reloading (no need to lube cases).

jw4570 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2007, 04:05:05 PM »

I checked my notes and my 357 AMP with 14" barrel moves at 1975 fps with 158 gr JSP. A 8.5" inch 357 AMP moves about 1750 fps with a 158 gr. This is not a max load, but there are no established pressures for this, so I am relucatant to post the load.

Checking the 7th ed Hornady Manual shows a 357/44 B&D 160 gr at a max of 2100 fps, the manual does caution you when workign up to max. The 357 maximum (T/C loads) shows a max of 1800 fps with the 160. Both are Contenders with 10" barrels. The manual would indicate that the B&D has a slight edge over the 357 max.

Sharps-Nut · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2007, 04:32:34 AM »

No bubble bursting here I posted and ask for straight foreward honest responses and I am getting them. I read up on the 357 max and came to the same conclusion that the b&d would outrun it by a couple hundred feet. The hornady manual was using a tc wiith 10 barrel for the test gun and published velocities at 2400 fps for a 110 and 2200 for a 125. Thats smoking for a pistola. I love the looks of the round, and 44 mag case life is way good from my experience so the b&d should be sorta same same I hope. I will start the process off shopping for used dies to save a buck or to over new and same with barrel. I have seen used 357 at shows for as little as 100. Seems like they are common and not super sought after. I may be dreaming but will proceed with caution. Thanks for all the imput I really appreciate it. Any more thoughts or advice is welcomed and appreciated. Steve

spinafish · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2007, 07:13:23 AM »

have you checked Ed's yet? His banner is at the top of the page..

rickyp · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2007, 08:44:29 AM »

I bought a 357 mag barrel with plans of doing the same thing. I ended up keeping the 357 mag as is.
The only real reason to rechamber a 357 mag to a 357-44 B&D over a 375 maX is if he chamber needs to be cleaned up. the 44 case will help some with this.

Sharps-Nut · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2007, 08:58:43 AM »

Checked EDS has a oct for 225. May want to consider going a factory if I could get in at 225. A barrel at 100 plus reamer a 40.00 plus 40 for machine work, thas 180. and its a rechamber and not as sellable as a factory. I was told once upon a time the 357b&d was rare and collected and it would be in the 300-400 range, thats why the dream died. Then reading the hornady book while reloading for my 357 revolver got me to pipe dreaming on building my own froma less expensive 357 barrel. Then showing off my home made mock up round to a tc friend, who just got into tc's last yearr and reloading the year before really started the train moving. He wants in, having a 357 mag barrel he never fired and being impressed with the high velocities and ease of forming. OK I'm way off track, this big snow and to much time indoors has got me drooling again. I gotta go read the gun list at the library, you know magazine rack at wal-Mart and find where the next big close show is. Tulsa is not till april and I's can'ts waits thats longs.

Gregory · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2007, 12:07:11 PM »

Quote from: Sharps-Nut on January 04, 2007, 04:32:34 AM

No bubble bursting here I posted and ask for straight foreward honest responses and I am getting them. I read up on the 357 max and came to the same conclusion that the b&d would outrun it by a couple hundred feet. The hornady manual was using a tc wiith 10 barrel for the test gun and published velocities at 2400 fps for a 110 and 2200 for a 125. Thats smoking for a pistola. I love the looks of the round, and 44 mag case life is way good from my experience so the b&d should be sorta same same I hope. I will start the process off shopping for used dies to save a buck or to over new and same with barrel. I have seen used 357 at shows for as little as 100. Seems like they are common and not super sought after. I may be dreaming but will proceed with caution. Thanks for all the imput I really appreciate it. Any more thoughts or advice is welcomed and appreciated. Steve

I was comparing listed loads from my Hodgdon 25th edition on pgs 368 and 369. The 357 Max out of a 10 1/2 Ruger was 1886 fps for a 158-160 gr bullet and the 357 B&D was 1604 fps for the same bullet. These were H110 loads.

I'd bet you won't see a bunch of difference in the real world.

jw4570 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2007, 01:04:03 PM »

I do agree that different loading manuals vary considerably. Which gun was the B&D fired out of in the Hodgdon manual?

I am not disagreeing that the performance is nearly on par, and may vary barrel to barrel. Also, I have read about 357 Max Factory cut chambers not being throated properly, but have no experience with the 357 Max Barrels. So it would seem to do either, the best start would be a 357 Mag Barrel. I prefer the 14" in a Contender, if you are going hunting and looking for max performance, why use a ten, though the extra 4" doesn't gain as much as you would think!

The only other consideration is brass. the 357 B&D is custom, but easily formed from 44 Mag I understand (I would use virgin brass, I don't like forming fired brass, tends to split and I don't fool with annealing). The 357 max is readily available, at least for the present.

Either would be a good choice.

I got my 357 AMP barrel because I found it used.

Sharps-Nut · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2007, 03:38:11 AM »

I may want to look into the max, if I find a bargain it to could be rechambered to the b&d. I have owned a cotender for 10 years but only had two barrel the entire time. A 10" 223 bull and a 10" 7mmtcu also bull. My brother owns a 14" 223 and off the bench I'd rather shoot his but carrry and offhand I'll take my 10" even though I am giving up a little velocity. The balance is just better to me. I really don't plan on hunting the 357 B&D but very well could. I have shot one deer with the 7mm tcu and it performed wonderfully on a doe at 50 yards. I was thinking hand cannon to play with some really hot 357 loads for offhad pistol open sight at longer ranges. I have scoped both other barrels so a open sighted barrel really appeals to me.

Gregory · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2007, 05:17:47 AM »

Quote from: jw4570 on January 04, 2007, 01:04:03 PM

Which gun was the B&D fired out of in the Hodgdon manual?

It was a 10" Contender.

I have a 357 Max 10" Contender, scoped with a Nikon 2X. It's my deer gun here in Illinois and works well. I prefer the 10" Contenders over 14", in fact I've sold off all my longer barrels and have just two 10" barrels left.

Sharps-Nut · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2007, 07:52:13 AM »

I really appreciate all the idea's. This forum and others like it really allow a person that can't afford the trial and error approach to hear lots of idea's and varying opinions and experiences on a topic before they jump in over their heads or at least not get what they thought they were getting. My brothers 14" 223 vs my 10" will chrony right at 200 fps faster than mine same load same day. But the 357 B&D will be using faster burn rate pistol powders will there be 200 fps difference based on the powders used? I love my 10" for carring/ offhand shoting but It would really rock if someone maybe had chronied the 10" with the loads listed in hornady since they used a 10" tc and see if in the real world the velocities were obtainable and compare that to maybe a 14 to see what real gains were made. Wish I were wealthy eneogh to perform such tests and report such findings but I'm just a industrial arts teacher on a meager wage. I do know the 10 223 rings my ears real bad even with 30db rated ear muffs. The powder flash at sunset is something most folks remember that have been to the range with me. Keep the idea's rolling mabe this is fact finding time and tulsa in the spring is barrrel searching time, let me cool down and shop with some descretion and knowledge to boot. I'm still drooling on over that mocked catridge and the 2200 fps 125 grainers hornady advertises out of there test mule. Thanks again. Steve

jw4570 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 06, 2007, 01:11:26 AM »

There are two 357/44 B&D's on Ebay right now, one a rechamber and one a T/C Custom SHop I believe.

The Old Redneck · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2007, 01:09:54 AM »

Sir, it is possible to rechamber a 357 barrel to 357/44, and is not that hard to do. You can get a new 44 mag extractor from T C . Leave the 357 extractor in the barrel when you cut the new chamber. It fills the extractor groove and makes it easier to cut. I usually put a couple of laps of tape around it to hold it in place. Contender barrels have been rechambered for years with good results. They are a good way to try out some of the wildcats that are within Contender pressure limits. Some of us have been guilty of exceeding them and I having been guilty of that myself, will advise not doing it. That little extra zip is not worth the cost of a frame, and or what can happen to the shooter. The 357/44 B&D is a good round, I owned a Ruger that had been converted to it years ago. It had a 6" barrel and was fun to shoot, never shot it across a chrony for velocity. Traded it for a different toy not long after I got it, not because there was anything wrong with it, just because I wanted something else. The cases are formed best with a set of form dies, you will lose fewer cases. You can find a set of used dies at a gunshow if your lucky. May even find a barrel that has been converted, good luck, The Ol Redneck.

Steve E · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2007, 07:29:21 PM »

Sharps-nut
For the most part you won't need to get a form die to make the cases, just some light lube and run it into the size die in your die set. When I first started shooting the 357 B&D I bought a 500 pack of new 44 mag brass and lost maybe 3 out of 500 using the resize/decap die in my die set. I have loaded several hundred rounds since that box and have lost maybe 2 more cases using the sizing die in another die set. I have had 3 different die sets and they have all worked great.
If you reform once fired brass you will loose maybe 8 or more out of 50. Dies are usually available from some of the reloading supply places. My last set was about $38.00, which I bought year before last. I'm sure you will enjoy it. I have a contender barrel, an Encore pistol barrel, an Encore rifle barrel, a Ruger Blackhawk and a Marlin 1894 in 357 x 44 Bain & Davis. The Marlin and Encore Rifle really love the Hornady 180 gr XTP hp's. Did I mention I really love the B&D? I'll always have several.

Steve E.........

Slufoot · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2007, 11:58:38 PM »

Steve E

" I have a contender barrel, an Encore pistol barrel, an Encore rifle barrel, a Ruger Blackhawk and a Marlin 1894 in 357 x 44 Bain & Davis."

Please tell me about your Marlin conversion?
Did it start as a 357 Mag.?
Did you have to change the magazine tube?
I'm very interested, please tell me more!!!!!

Thanks!
Slufoot

Sharps-Nut · « **Reply #19 on:** January 11, 2007, 05:33:43 AM »

Steve thanks for the advice. I am confused a little in the case forming now. You said I would not need a forming die. I take you are saying the full length 357-44 die is all you need? I tried running a 44 thru my 357 sizing die when I made my mock up round for fun. Naturally it would not fit so I started my neck down with a 30-30 die then finished it with the 357 size die. That worked fine for a mock up round to impress your friends but would not fly for actual loading and shooting. How is the recoil on the round out of a contender I think I prefer 10" barrel length but if recoil was tough I might consider a 12 or 14. How about out of your marlin. More recoil than a 44 mag or less? Glad to see a big fan of the round. I agree with the guys here a 357 amx would run right with it but the cool factor is not there.

jw4570 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 11, 2007, 07:27:55 AM »

Sharps-Nut,

You are trying it in a 357 Magnum Size die or a 357 B&D size die? You can't use 357 magnum dies for a 357 B&D.

Steve E · « **Reply #21 on:** January 11, 2007, 12:04:24 PM »

Sharpsnut

As jw4570 said you can't do that. Won't form the shoulder taper, etc, etc. When you buy a set of 357 x44 B&D reloading dies you can use the resizing/decapping die to reform your new 44 Mag brass into 357 B&D brass. Case will be almost 100 % formed. A couple of ways to reform your brass,
1. Start with the sizing die well up off the shell holder and adjust down till it starts forming the case neck thentry it in your Contender and see if it will close without forcing it. If it doesn't close easily adjust down in small increments till it does.
2. Use the same way of adjusting the die but try it in your barrel off the frame untill it fits flush with the end of the barrel, I usually take out my extractor if I use this method.

Slufoot,

My rifle started life as a 44 Mag, I never was satisfied with the accuracy and it even went back to the Favtory once and they changed the barrel to a Ballard Rifling one. Still wasn't satisfied and had always wanted a lever action in 357 B&D so I got a new barrel from Gunparts Corp. and had Brockmans Rifles do the barrel swap and chambering. All he had to do was trim the hood on the 357 Mag barrel install it and chamber it. No adjustment to the carrier or shell stop were needed. No mag tube adjustment either. I'm sure one in 45 Colt could be used also as the bolts are the same as the 44 Mag. You can run some dummy rounds through a 44 Mag to see if they will feed, it will usually feed slicker than the proverbial 'snot'.

Steve E..........

The Old Redneck · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2007, 05:43:45 AM »

What Steve E said about forming new brass without form dies is true. Back when the round first came out a lot of us used once fired, and used brass it formed better with form dies. Starting with new brass is better, old habits of using used brass die hard, in the long run it is cheaper and more consistant to buy new brass. You will also get more out of the round in a Contender, than a revolver. Sorry about the sugestion on form dies, buy new brass and save that extra cost. Good luck.

Steve E · « **Reply #23 on:** June 05, 2012, 03:08:11 PM »

Thought I would update this old discussion by letting you Guys know I now have a Ruger 77/44 at the Smith's getting rebarrelled into 357 x 44 Bain & Davis. Can't wait for my new toy to get here.

Steve E............

spinafish · « **Reply #24 on:** June 06, 2012, 09:01:25 AM »

sounds like fun...let us know how it works out!

tatonka · « **Reply #25 on:** June 06, 2012, 11:38:55 AM »

I vote for the 357 max. I have a couple and have owned one for over 20 years. It's a great whitetail cartridge out to 200+ yards. I shoot the 180 gr Hornady SSP bullet. The 357 -44 B&D might have trouble stabilizing the heavier bullets but you mentioned that you like the lighter bullets.

Curtis · « **Reply #26 on:** June 06, 2012, 01:03:32 PM »

The 357 b&d has always intrigued me, but since I already have a 357 Herrett to fill that niche I never could justify owning it. Neat looking round though.

Curtis

45-70.gov · « **Reply #27 on:** June 06, 2012, 03:03:14 PM »

many on the H&R forum are partial to the 357MAX

i just reamed my contender and handi rifle

Steve P · « **Reply #28 on:** June 12, 2012, 05:47:57 AM »

I had a 357 B&D for a while. It was made from a Mag blank. It shot GREAT with the light bullets. The rifling twist was too slow to stabilize the heavier bullets. Even 170s were tough to stabilize. Forget about 180s, 200s, or 210s.

I have several 357 mags and several max. I have loads that will nearly equal B&D for the Contender. Much easier to get brass (Don't have to form and fireform.) Shoots the light bullets almost as fast.

If having a barrel made, go with faster twist for heavier bullets that will utilize B&D design. If going with standard mag twist barrel, expect to use bullets on light end to get good stabilization.

Just a nickels worth of experience passed on for free.

Steve

Swampman · « **Reply #29 on:** June 12, 2012, 06:12:25 AM »

I had one converted by Bain & Davis. It's better than the .357 Max. Mine shot sub-MOA at 100 yards with 170s and 180s and I took deer and hogs with it. Great cartridge and simple to form.