Author Topic: Low Velocity need advice (Read 695 times)

Little Joe · « **on:** January 04, 2007, 05:39:41 PM »

Hello forum
I need some advice from 300 Winchester mag users. I can’t get more then 2847 FPS average velocity from my new Weatherby Vanguard Rifle with a 180 grain Nosler Partition bullet. Here is my recipe. New Winchester cases. CCI 250 Mag primers. 75.3 grains of Reloaded 22 powder. This is a near Max load from the Nosler manual I have. The groups are great though. 3/4 inch at 100 yards. I wanted at least factory velocity of 2900 FPS or better. There were no signs of pressure. Primers were not flattened and bolt lift was normal and not hard lifting. Manual says load denisity is 98%. Bullet is seated out as far as magazine length will allow at 3.481 with a little room to keep bullet tip from deforming under recoil. Bullet is not touching the lands. Could it just be a slow rifle?

Penny for your thoughts.

Little Joe

Duffy · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2007, 08:45:05 PM »

You said this is NEAR max load for your book, and you show no PSI signs. Have you tried the max load ? If your accuracy is that good I wouldn't mess with it. Your bullet seating depth could also alter your FPS. Also have you actually chrono'ed a factory load to see if it's actually 2900? I've found most fall short of claims.
Now where's my penny?

skb2706 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2007, 05:29:53 AM »

For one cent this is what you get........

What length barrel ?

Have you tried other powders...I prefer IMR 4350 in my Winmag ?

What is the down side of 3/4" / 100 yds. in a .300 WM ?

Doubtful that you will get "factory" ballistics in your factory rifle... I never do.

An honest chronograph trumps "internet estimates" all day.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2007, 06:02:20 AM »

I date back to pre-cronograph era. Back then we concerned ourselves with how accurate our rifle was more than how fast we could make the bullet go! We knew how fast our bullet's went because our manuals told us so. They must have been right, everything we hit well died.

A well placed shot trumps cronograph figures any day. Practice overcomes velocity.

skb2706 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2007, 07:15:28 AM »

Quote from: Don Fischer on January 05, 2007, 06:02:20 AM

A well placed shot trumps cronograph figures any day. Practice overcomes velocity.

I only gave him one pennys worth of thought....that would cost two

Little Joe · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2007, 07:35:21 AM »

Greetings everyone
I am new to a chronograph and I was just curious. The manuals all state that a 300 Winchester can get 3000 FPS with a 180 grain bullet. I am learning some very interesting things from my chronograph and from all your comments. My Weatherby has a 24 inch barrel. I like the load and will use this as my hunting load. No downside to the accuracy. I’m sure it will be a thumper. I am just seeing for the first time that Manuals and figures from the Internet are much higher then what I am getting and maybe others. I did test my Winchester Factory ammo. It was Winchesters 180 grain Power Points. They averaged 2901 FPS. Six shot strings

Thanks everyone

Little Joe

superhornet · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2007, 08:50:16 AM »

Never shot a whitetail who could tell whether the projectile was traveling 2850 or 2900. Load for accuracy. Speed kills, but accuracy gets the game....IMHO

Little Joe · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2007, 10:13:45 AM »

I load for accuracy as well and it is my first concern. I was just surprised that the velocity levels that Manuals and others state were higher or are inflated. This could happen to any caliber I suppose. That is what I am really surprised about. I am not complaining. The load is a great load and I will use it. I love this new rifle and look forward to using it on Elk.

Little Joe

Lead pot · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:21:22 AM »

That critter aint gona know that bullet is 53 fps slow, and if your getting sub minute with a Webberbee it's a plus.

Kurt

I might add, My neighbor went on an African hunt two years ago and one of his rifles was a .300 Weatherby I helped him work up a load for.
I just pulled out my Nosler manual and checked the notes.
Your 75 grain load is about 2.5 grains below suggested starting load.
His load with 7828 was over 3180 fps and a very tight group.
If you can take the bite you should get 3100 with RL 22.

wild willy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:22:13 AM »

Little Joe

Your not alone I have a couple rifles I can't get book or internet velocity out of with the listed loads

Little Joe · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2007, 02:20:11 PM »

Thanks wild willy. That is really all I wanted to know. I was interested in External Ballistics for my 300 Winchester round and published FPS. Maybe I should have said External Ballistics. People read too much into what I was trying to get at. “They won’t know the difference between a few feet per second” was not the information I was trying to learn about. I was just wondering about the published loads and why I was not able to get them. I want to get the highest velocity along with accuracy. Isn’t that what we all want with our handloads? The load that I made is accurate. I was told by another friend of mine who has loaded for years and has a Chronograph that he is often not able to get published loads for his rifle as you said with yours. It is a very interesting subject and worth talking about. I am now researching about Extreme Spread and Standard Deviation. I love to learn about our craft of hand loading and now that I have a Chronograph, I am really having fun and learning about something I never new about before.

Lead Pot, My Complete Reloading Manual for the 300 Winchester Magnum (Copyright 2004) in the Nosler section says a Max load for the 180 grain Partition with Reloader 22 is 75.5 grains. My load as at 75.3 grains. A two tenths of one grain from Maximum. I like to load a bit under for temperature variations.

Regards

Little Joe

jhalcott · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2007, 02:45:02 PM »

Little joe, the factories use a different powder than the canister grade we can get. Another little tidbit for you! Take any two or three rifles, same make,model and caliber! Shoot some factory AND hand loads thru each over the chrono! I'll bet you get different readings from each..Your barrel MAY be a slow one .

Luckyducker · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2007, 03:04:13 PM »

Leadpot, LittleJoe has a 300Win. I think you were thinking the 300WBY.

LittleJoe, when I have a powder/cartridge that have a high load density such as the Re22 in your 300 I sometimes will try a slightly faster powder to increase velocity. I have loaded for one 300Win with Re22 and found 75 grains to be the best group with 180s, but even this load didn't give the accuracy near what you are getting. The rifle was my daughter's friend but we never finished finding a good load for it. I think H4831 would have been my next powder to try in it. BTW, most of the Load Manuals use a 26" barrel for their data and this would account for more velocity they are getting.

Lead pot · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2007, 03:16:53 PM »

Luckyducker, Thank you your right, I completely looked over the Win.
I load my .300 win with 73 gr of rl 22.

Kurt

Little Joe · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2007, 03:45:56 PM »

Thanks guys
Luckyducker Thanks for the tip. I think I’m going to leave it right where it is for now. The load I have is so very accurate. I will however try some H4831 at some point when I can get more Nosler bullets and powder. It is fun to do load development. Right now I will have to wait on payday to get more supplies.
jhalcott, I think your right.

Little Joe

RaySendero · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2007, 04:54:11 PM »

Little Joe,

http://stevespages.com/308_7_180.html

Little Joe · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2007, 05:18:51 PM »

This is an interesting read. I set my Chronograph at about six feet away. I am going to change that to ten feet now and retest my loads on my Chronograph as posted by Ken Oehler. The link wont post but Ken Oehler says that a Chronoghaph needs to be at least 10 feet from the muzzle.

Little Joe

victorcharlie · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2007, 01:26:15 AM »

Quote from: Little Joe on January 05, 2007, 07:35:21 AM

Greetings everyone
I am new to a chronograph and I was just curious. The manuals all state that a 300 Winchester can get 3000 FPS with a 180 grain bullet. I am learning some very interesting things from my chronograph and from all your comments. My Weatherby has a 24 inch barrel. I like the load and will use this as my hunting load. No downside to the accuracy. I’m sure it will be a thumper. I am just seeing for the first time that Manuals and figures from the Internet are much higher then what I am getting and maybe others. I did test my Winchester Factory ammo. It was Winchesters 180 grain Power Points. They averaged 2901 FPS. Six shot strings

Thanks everyone

Little Joe

I think it would be interesting to shoot a few factory loads and see if they achieve claimed velocity. Was 2901 fps what was claimed?

Honestly, I've always thought most velocities published in reloading manuals are achieved under the best circumstances and are really quite optimistic having a little marketing hype mixed in.

Little Joe · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2007, 06:54:47 AM »

For those who want to read about skyscreens on your Chronograph go to Accurate Reloading Forums. Click on the reloading section then go to ChronoGraph Question by Big Country. Very interesting decisions.

Little Joe