Author Topic: How to Build a Rifling Machine.......A to Z (Read 67235 times)

guardsgunner · « **Reply #90 on:** February 25, 2007, 01:51:55 PM »

Mike ,
I made a height adj. tool for starting out by mounting a .0005 plunger type dial indicator to a pc. of steel which I bored to cutter head dia. Set it so it is a little loaded when mounted and over cutter ,then set your zero.
Chip removal slot in front of the cutter will have to be bigger for barrels of a longer length.
How deep on groove depth?

How did you figure the curve in the sine bar for the gain twist? Hadn't given it much thought , but it might be neat to try in the future.

Really like your presentation.

Bob

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #91 on:** February 25, 2007, 02:35:07 PM »

Bob,

That cutter height setting tool sounds good. I'll have to make one. We have enough indicators laying around here.

Chip recess is O.K. for our tubes which are all 21" to 27" bore depth, but if we do a longer one, your right!

Groove depth is .023" which is plenty deep I'll tell you. 700 strokes to get that depth. Almost done though, only about a hundred more.

Tracy did all the math and a complete marker board sketch on that subject. I think it is back on page two. It is on page 2 about half way down.

I'm glad you like our work; I can call Tracy at 2 AM and know he is still working on this thread. He really loves it as much as I love cutting grooves.
Take care,

Mike

gary michie · « **Reply #92 on:** February 28, 2007, 08:02:52 AM »

HI;

You have talked of a Whitworth for your future retirement project. My son is planing a whitworth right now and with a 2.75 bore. How do you feel the corners of the hex should be cut? A half cornor at a time, 2- 1/2 corners on one side, one full corner, Got any advice?
gary
PS could you talk about your deep hole gun drilling?

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #93 on:** February 28, 2007, 09:03:37 AM »

Quote from: gary michie on February 28, 2007, 08:02:52 AM

HI;
You have talked of a Whitworth for your future retirement project. My son is planing a whitworth right now and with a 2.75 bore. How do you feel the corners of the hex should be cut? A half cornor at a time, 2- 1/2 corners on one side, one full corner, Got any advice?
gary
PS could you talk about your deep hole gun drilling?

Gary,

Mike and I talked this over after we bought a 12 Pdr. projectile from the Paulson Bros. In our half-scale rifle we would be tempted to go straight in toward the corner and its small flat with a cutter which will do the small flat, both angles adjacent to the large flats and possibly 1/2 of each of the large flat. This may, however, be way too much to cut on a full size bore. You would definitely need hydraulics here, no doubt about that. On a full sized bore, we would probably try your first stated option: 2 1/2 corners, each including 1/2 of one large side. If this proves to be too much, you could do the large sides separately with a different cutter.

On the deep hole gundrilling, we could tell you stories that would raise the hair on the back of your neck. But, rather than wasting your time, we can give you the best advice we have and cut your learning curve down to a week instead of the months and months it took us. That advice is this: Contact the best company we have found who has an engineer who REALLY KNOWS gundrills and gundrilling techniques. Contact Mr. Doug Holley who is the Applications Engineer at Sterling Gundrills, formerly, Drill Masters of Vermont. Phone: 1-888-338-1049 or 1-802-422-3525 This company is located in beautiful Bennington, Vermont. The address is:

Sterling Gundrills
BCIC Bldg. Water Street
North Bennington, VT 05257

We use their water soluable cutting fluid compressed air delivery system with cutting fluid pump. They make only solid carbide gundrills, so you can do three or four tubes without any re-sharpening. The equipment is first rate. On our large lathe, we drill holes with Sterling gundrills which are straight within .002" for the entire 21 or 27 inches of bore length. The surface finish, while not shiny, is at the very least, smooth, all the way to the bottom. Great drills!!

Hope this helps you,

Mike and Tracy
Seacoast Artillery Company

GGaskill · « **Reply #94 on:** February 28, 2007, 12:34:58 PM »

On our large lathe, we drill holes with Sterling gundrills which are straight within .002" for the entire 21 or 27 inches of bore length.

You say your large lathe (as opposed to a true gundrilling machine), what are your speeds and feeds?

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #95 on:** February 28, 2007, 02:47:42 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on February 28, 2007, 12:34:58 PM

On our large lathe, we drill holes with Sterling gundrills which are straight within .002" for the entire 21 or 27 inches of bore length.

You say your large lathe (as opposed to a true gundrilling machine), what are your speeds and feeds?

GG,

Our Birmingham 1660 has speeds of 35 to 2000 RPM and feeds of .00055" to .063" per revolution. We did a nationwide search on REAL TRUE GUNDRILLING machines and the availability was poor, the sizes were small, and none were in our size category. The prices of new equipment in the proper size was astronomical. About $60,000 !! to start, and they go up quickly from there !!! Lathes work great, although you do have to build a few special fixtures, of course.
Hope that helps.
Regards,

Mike and Tracy

GGaskill · « **Reply #96 on:** February 28, 2007, 02:51:51 PM »

Nice to have that .00055" setting. Is that the one you use?

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #97 on:** February 28, 2007, 03:14:05 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on February 28, 2007, 02:51:51 PM

Nice to have that .00055" setting. Is that the one you use?

GG,
The machine actually goes down to .0011" as delivered. We were able to replace one gear in order to cut all feeds in half. We did this in anticipation of drilling the larger 150 Pdr. Armstrong Rifle; the 1/6 scale bore will be at 1.3333" dia., which is next on our production list. We found that .0011" feed worked great for the smaller 1.067" dia. and the 1.167" dia. bores which we have drilled so far.

Mike and Tracy

gary michie · « **Reply #98 on:** February 28, 2007, 09:10:06 PM »

HI;

I'm hopeing to start my gatling 58 cal. full size barrels soon what do you guys advice for feed and speed? I've got a fpm chart but I never seem to get it right I go by chip color, sound and vibration but this deep hole stuff has got my worried.
gary

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #99 on:** March 01, 2007, 01:51:36 AM »

Quote from: gary michie on February 28, 2007, 09:10:06 PM

HI;
I'm hopeing to start my gatling 58 cal. full size barrels soon what do you guys advice for feed and speed? I've got a fpm chart but I never seem to get it right I go by chip color, sound and vibration but this deep hole stuff has got my worried.
gary

Gary,

Sounds like you have a wide variety of projects going on simultaneously. As we have absolutely no experience drilling this size bore, .58 cal, we cannot give you the info you request. You probably are aware that the barrel rotation speed goes up EXPONENTIALY as the size of the bore gets smaller when you are gundrilling. Our very best advice to you is to get an answer from an expert in the drilling of these sporting rifle calibers. Call Sterling Gundrills once you have your coollant method in mind, either VERY high pressure oil or a spray mist, water-sol type.

If you are going to drill something bigger than 1.5", we would refer you to Powderkeg's thread on this forum called "Powderkeg's Treatise on Drilling". That's exactly the way Mike and I would drill a larger bore cannon tube. Good luck.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

CU_Cannon · « **Reply #100 on:** March 30, 2007, 02:13:06 AM »

Lathe Bed/Machine Foundation

I came across this on eBay. This is the second time it has been listed.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #101 on:** March 31, 2007, 06:47:06 AM »

CU,

Nice of you to post this. It lets everyone see what a real heavy-duty machine bed looks like. I think TWO TONS of cast iron is a bit much for an occasionally used rifling machine, but if someone wanted to duplicate a full-blown Pratt and Whitney machine, maybe this would work. 400 pounds of structural steel steadies our rifling machine, but for real cast iron lovers, that is probably not nearly enough weight. Before you bid on this, remember that it weighs TEN TIMES that much. I think your the only one who lives close enough to the location of this machine bed to avoid killer shipping charges. So be sure to let us know occasionally how you are progressing on your two ton rifling machine.

Regards,
Mike and Tracy

Double D · « **Reply #102 on:** January 03, 2008, 05:30:27 PM »

Since our little board and this topic in particular were mentioned in The Artilleryman I thought I would BTT--Bring To Top. Thanks mike and Tracy for thinking of us.

I am also going to link this post into the cannon plans sticky at teh top of the board.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #103 on:** January 04, 2008, 05:28:34 AM »

DD, we are always thinking about you guys AND your hobby. After all the fine GBO cannoneers we met in Mansfield, OH and western MA and in Floyd, VA this past year, how can we help but be thinking of our mutual welfare? Sounds like a good idea, DD, thanks. We are still waiting for the first Email that brings us the news that one of these thousands of people looking at all that info. has actually started to use it to build a machine. Can't wait to see that!

Thanks again,

Mike and Tracy

lance · « **Reply #104 on:** January 04, 2008, 08:50:30 AM »

Mike and Tracy, i'll probably never get around to building a rifling machine, but wanted to say Thanks for the FLOYD, VIRGINIA get together. i'm hoping Tim and i can do it again this year, you guys are always welcome!!!

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #105 on:** January 04, 2008, 03:03:01 PM »

Lance, Mike and I certainly had lots of fun at the "New River Valley Shoot" in Floyd and we sure did enjoy talking to all you artillery enthusiasts. Can't tell what the future will bring, but if we ever get this Brooke rifle finished, we can finish up our study of seacoast artillery of Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Delaware and eastern Pennsylvania which will put us real close to you guys once more. We just can't tell whether its going to be ready in July, Aug. or Sept. of 2008. If we make it, we will plan on an extra day so we can visit the Floyd Country Store and do some flat-footing!

Regards, Tracy and Mike

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #106 on:** January 05, 2008, 11:13:59 AM »

Hmmmmm.

The SECOND ANNUAL New River Valley Mortar and Cannon OPEN Firepower Demonstration and Floyd County Flatfooting Whing Ding!

Dates and location to be announced.

brianklein · « **Reply #107 on:** July 08, 2008, 12:06:23 PM »

great post.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #108 on:** July 08, 2008, 12:23:03 PM »

You're right, Brian, it certainly has been. We just hope that someday one or two of all these people who have viewed or maybe studied this post make the decision to "Just Do It!" and make one! If you have any specific questions we would be happy to try and answer them.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

Don Krag · « **Reply #109 on:** July 10, 2008, 04:52:05 AM »

Well, I'm back from Africa now and we're moving back to Houston, TX over the next few weeks. Bad news is...I'll be in a Katy subdivision and no smoke and fire behind the house anymore...good news is....big garage and 25% more family income for new shop tools!:) My wife would disagree slightly in the last part there, though. I've been looking at doing a rifling machine based on a lot of your design here, but for smaller (18-24" long) barrels 3/4-1" cal. I've been looking over medieval manuscripts as well for some of the earlier methods of rifling, but not much out there that I've found. Maybe a winter project this year! I'm sure I'll have lots of questions.

GGaskill · « **Reply #110 on:** July 10, 2008, 07:58:34 AM »

... 25% more family income ...

Congrats but don't think you can spend all of that. Big Brother will get an increased portion of that raise.

Don Krag · « **Reply #111 on:** July 13, 2008, 09:21:54 AM »

Yeah...big brother, big sister, Uncle sam.....the list goes on! It's still fun to kid my wife, telling her to be sure and leave room for the new lathe in the garage.

guardsgunner · « **Reply #112 on:** July 13, 2008, 11:16:09 AM »

Don,
If your going to build a rifling machine, go to around four foot. The increased length will be be a minimal cost addition and sometime in the future you will want to try something longer than two feet long. Four feet long wasn't long enough for me so I am rebuilding longer.

Bob

Double D · « **Reply #113 on:** May 03, 2010, 11:00:10 AM »

Goodie but oldie...

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #114 on:** May 03, 2010, 04:35:16 PM »

Most people don't realize this, but you just can't find detailed information about the most critical part, the Hook Cutter and its angles and the most important assembly in a rifling machine, the Rifling Head, in most of the pamphlets and videos available on this subject. Both of these are completely explained including turning, machining and grinding instructions on page three of the Informational Thread we did right here on the GBO Mortar and Cannon Board. Heck, we even included common problems you will run into as you try to get your unadjusted machine to cut rifling grooves, and Solutions to those problems. All in all it was lots of fun to create and we had a terrific time answering all those questions from the membership. We were shocked to see how many views this thread has garnered.

Anybody build one yet?

Tracy and Mike

KABAR2 · « **Reply #115 on:** May 03, 2010, 07:35:23 PM »

I would love to but where to put it........

dan610324 · « **Reply #116 on:** May 03, 2010, 11:01:44 PM »

in the living room

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #117 on:** May 04, 2010, 10:54:37 AM »

Allen, It looks like Dan has a pretty good idea here. I have seen spinning wheels and small looms in living rooms. In both cases they were functional. What if you could make a functional Rifling Machine with the same or smaller footprint? You can, and Mike and I saw one, made by Smith and Wesson in the late 1850s or early 1860s when we visited Springfield Armory in Springfield, Mass. It was for producing rifling in pistol barrels, of course, and the machine was very similar to ours, only smaller. It was about 36" long, 7" deep, and 14" tall (not counting the cast iron stand). The shallow depth was possible, because they built their machine like ours, only it's operating configuration, mounted upon it's stand, was flipped 90 degrees from ours. Imagine our machine flipped, so the top edge, closest to the machinist, is rotated toward you and down toward your belt. The back side comes up and toward your chest. The rack is now vertical, but the machine works normally, just like it does in the horizontal attitude. This size rifling machine could cut grooves in any small cannon tube which did not exceed 12" in length, or you could cut a few premium quality, gain twist, pistol barrels like some custom makers are doing today. Small size. Big results!

Mike and Tracy

dan610324 · « **Reply #118 on:** May 04, 2010, 11:49:42 AM »

with a glass top it would be an odd sofa table

KABAR2 · « **Reply #119 on:** May 08, 2010, 06:54:22 PM »

There have been thoughts germinating on this subject for a couple of years now
it looks like I may have to be like a frontier smith and add a lean to to the back
of the garage I have been gathering bits and pieces (rack, gear, sprockets, bearing blocks etc)
and someone is donating a long cast iron machine base (8 to 10ft) to the project the good thing
is I can sit on the bits and pieces until I am ready to build, but first I need to get two other projects
started the 20mm Armstrong I need to get this done so I will have a shooter for
July, and from what I hear I may get to use the big lathe for the Whitworth project
soon, it has been tied up making the machine shop money so I am at their mercy
but the free use of the machine I am not complaining