Author Topic: Question about T/C encore (Read 1621 times)

ds7418 · « **on:** January 07, 2007, 07:58:12 AM »

Will the T/C encore pistol barrels fit the standard rifle encore receivers?? I just got a TC rifle and don't know anything about them.

Thanks
Dewayne
Chatsworth, GA

Will_C · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2007, 08:19:32 AM »

They will, but you will have an illegal gun, at least here in New York. The frames are sold as a long gun or a handgun. I did not have a pistol permit when I boght my 209x50 Encore rifle. I wish I had the permit then, I would have bought a pistol frame and added the muzzleloader barrel.
Will

K.K · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2007, 08:22:25 AM »

Great advice. I do have a NYS permit, and was advised to buy mine as a pistol, and did. I now use it for muzzleloading as well. I mentioned to the gunshop that the .308 pistol barrel and stock would make a handy carbine, but he also told me that it would be an illegal gun. It's better to ask first! I'm gald I did.

ds7418 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2007, 08:26:26 AM »

Thanks for the info guys. I got a 45/70 rifle barrel on my encore,, and im thinking of tradeing it for a 243 or 30/06 barrel later on.

manofthe45 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2007, 11:15:31 AM »

Quote from: K.K on January 07, 2007, 08:22:25 AM

. I mentioned to the gunshop that the .308 pistol barrel and stock would make a handy carbine, but he also told me that it would be an illegal gun.

Send your pistol barrel to fox ridge outfitters( T/C's custom shop) they can install their mb which will add just enough to the pistol barrel lengh to make it a legal carbine barrel without addeding so much that you cannot shoot it as a pistol last time I looked it cost about 75.00

Selmer · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2007, 11:24:32 PM »

Do you have to register your guns in New York? It's my understanding that there is a ruling on this issue from the Supreme Court, the frames can be used for any configuration you like, as long as you don't use a barrel less than 16" with a rifle buttstock attached. I know it's legal to switch them out in Iowa, I was just wondering if it's something unique to NY?
Selmer

jw4570 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2007, 03:53:01 AM »

I thought the frame had to be originally purchased as a pistol to be in any configuration, as that's how it's transferred.

And NY has pistol permits I believe.

Selmer · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2007, 02:03:18 AM »

I purchased my as a frame only with no barrel, but the first barrel on it was a pistol barrel. How any authority would know what barrel was on it first is beyond me, the frames are the firearm, the barrels are simply that, barrels.
Selmer

Keith L · « **Reply #8 on:** January 11, 2007, 08:37:18 AM »

The original court case established that it is legal to convert from a pistol to a rifle as long as the barrel exceeded the 16 inch limit to prevent making a short barrel rifle. It did not comment on converting from a rifle to a pistol. See .html http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/tc.html

To further complicate this the court case was on a Contender, not an Encore, and I can just hear someone arguing that it doesn't apply.

So the best advice is that you can make up your own mind. I buy pistols and convert to rifles to be safe. I don't want to spend my golden years in court or the klink.

Will_C · « **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2007, 09:06:51 AM »

Here in NY, you must have a pistol permit to own any kind of handgun. So, if you don't have the permit, you can own a Encore rifle, but not a pistol. If you have the permt, you can own the pistol frame and convert it into the rifle. The pistol frame needs to be registered with the County sheriff.

rebAL · « **Reply #10 on:** January 11, 2007, 09:21:23 AM »

So can I take my rifle frame & have it re-registered to a handgun frame?

DavidKansas · « **Reply #11 on:** January 11, 2007, 12:59:47 PM »

Thank goodness I live in Kansas where we do not have all that junk to worry about- just buy what you want and change it when you want. You can even carry a pistol uncovered almost anywhere you want.

Keith L · « **Reply #12 on:** January 11, 2007, 01:49:15 PM »

Quote from: DavidKansas on January 11, 2007, 12:59:47 PM

Thank goodness I live in Kansas where we do not have all that junk to worry about- just buy what you want and change it when you want. You can even carry a pistol uncovered almost anywhere you want.

Keep in mind the court case that determined this case law was a federal case decided in the US Supreme court. It is concerning federal law, not Kansas law or New York law. While it is likely that you will never have to discuss any of this with BATF, if you have to and you are wrong you will be in for the hastle of a lifetime. And they won't care what it is regestered as in any state. Just what it was reported as when it left the factory.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2007, 01:02:14 AM »

Quote from: Keith L on January 11, 2007, 01:49:15 PM

And they won't care what it is regestered as in any state. Just what it was reported as when it left the factory.

This statement is poppycock.

When a frame leaves the factory it is just that. A frame and nothing more. It isn't even registered until it's sold to the ultimate buyer. Walk into any Cabela's store and buy an Encore. Then tell them to remove the 243 rifle barrel and rifle stock and install a 223 14" handgun barrel and handgun grip. Watch how fast that happens.

The firearm registration forms are setup to register the frame as both a long arm and a handgun. Check with any gun dealer who does a volume of busness with T\C's and they will give you the correct information.

But when the frame leaves the factory, it's not registered as anything to anyone.

Dave.

Cement Man · « **Reply #14 on:** January 12, 2007, 02:02:51 AM »

I think the illogical issues that seem to exist with barrel changing on Contenders and Encores is poppycock, but that it is wise to know the potential pitfalls that can exist in different jurisdictions.
When I look in a Fox Ridge catalog (T/C's custom shop) or MidSouth Shooters catalog, they only sell rifle frames or pistol frames. Not just frames. Now we all know they are exactly the same frames, but for some reason there is that distinction. I know that the frames come with either a pistol grip or a butt stock, but to people like me, who own several, when I want just a frame, I do not like to have to pay for another grip or stock I don't want. I suspect that it is necessary to designate the frame either a rifle or a pistol, so one should be aware of these issues. Here we have a 3 day waiting period for handguns and 1 day for long guns - which would a frame be?
I am gonna call my local gun dealer buddy today and see what he says. We've got plenty of restrictions here in Illinois, I'm sure he'll know.

cam69conv · « **Reply #15 on:** January 12, 2007, 04:38:11 AM »

Yeah...Here in IL you even have to have AMMO shipped to an FFL if you order it online...Now just HOW stupid is THAT!!! Im moving!! I hate this damn state! They step all over our gun rights every day!

Cement Man · « **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2007, 05:00:14 AM »

Cam - do you live near Chicago? I know in Cook County they have people regulated like that. Where I live (120 miles west of Chicago) we can still receive ammo from vendors who have our FOID on file. With the political climate though, I wonder how long that will last. You can't even order a kit to put together a black powder Hawken replica anymore. You know how dangerous those things are don't you?

Cement Man · « **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2007, 05:17:18 AM »

I checked with Fox Ridge outfitters - T/C's custom shop. The lady I talked to indicated that frames are not assigned pistol/rifle designations by serial numbers per se, but that they are shipped with either the pistol or rifle stocks. So, if she is correct, that may be part of an answer.
Just talked to my local dealer. He puts the Encores through as whatever they were shipped to him as, and abides by the approriate waiting period as such. He indicated to me that he did call the state police up and they said he could ask the customer what the intended use was and write it up as such. In order to protect himself, instead, he writes it up as it was shipped from the distributor.
We both agreed that it is hghly unlikely that a pistol getup on a "rifle" frame would be challenged under normal circumstances, but there could be a legal issue to be concerned with about doing that.
So, that and $1 will get you a cup of coffee?

cam69conv · « **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2007, 05:41:45 AM »

Yeah I live in Summit at the present time....And that FOID is JUST what I am talking about..It is a BLATENT disgression of our civil liberties to own firearms UNINHINDERD!!! In cook county they also REQUIRE you to register ALL firearms, long guns, shotguns, and pistols. Yet ANOTHER transgression of the constitution.

Keith L · « **Reply #19 on:** January 12, 2007, 06:09:18 AM »

"This statement is poppycock."

Do your thing Dave. I personally don't really care what you do, because you will have to live whith whatever happens. I know I have my bases covered.

Have a great life.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #20 on:** January 12, 2007, 06:53:45 AM »

Quote from: Keith L on January 12, 2007, 06:09:18 AM

"This statement is poppycock."

Do your thing Dave. I personally don't really care what you do, because you will have to live whith whatever happens. I know I have my bases covered.

Have a great life.

I'm just tellin ya that here in the great country of Pennsylvania, you can register the frame as a handgun AND a rifle. Both at the same time!!! What a concept!!! Something that actually makes sense! Who-da-thunk?

That's why I can take my Contender 223 rifle barrel off and put on my 7-30 waters or my 45-410 10" barrel with the handgun grip and I am perfectly legal.

How-bout-that!

Dave.

Keith L · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2007, 07:53:54 AM »

Federal law does not give you special powers just because it is regestered a certain way by a state. You don't believe that frames are considered by BTAF as one or the other when made. I won't take the chance, based on advise from my lawyer. He researched it for me. I am content with that, and will make sure that I am on the right side of the law. Once again you do what you want to. I really don't care.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #22 on:** January 12, 2007, 09:49:25 AM »

Quote from: Keith L on January 12, 2007, 07:53:54 AM

I won't take the chance, based on advise from my lawyer.

Well, I don't know how many Thompson Centers your lawyer sells, but from his "advise" my guess is not many. Do yourself a favor and call a gun store that does a healthy business in T\C's. Don't call the guy that does the occasional sale (or the guy who get's 'em as they come in and is "chickin little" and won't change 'em and wont find out what he can or can't do) but call a REAL store that sell's 'em by the HUNDREDS and actually knows what they are doing.

Oh, and think about a new lawyer.....one that can advise you with correct answers.....Did this guy advise Smith right around the lock days?

Dave

Keith L · « **Reply #23 on:** January 12, 2007, 12:39:15 PM »

I will keep my lawyer. You keep your gun shop. I know I won't be in jail. Lets see if your gun shop can guarantee the same for you.

Have a nice life. I am tired of you and this topic.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2007, 09:44:16 AM »

Quote from: Keith L on January 12, 2007, 12:39:15 PM

I will keep my lawyer. You keep your gun shop. I know I won't be in jail. Lets see if your gun shop can guarantee the same for you.

Have a nice life. I am tired of you and this topic.

1) I know of no attorneys who guarantee anything.
2) If your tired of this topic, just don't read it anymore.
3) If you want to keep your lawyer, knock yourself out.
4) A knowelgable answer from a known source would go a long way in providing a credible answer......Mr. smooth moderator.

Cement Man · « **Reply #25 on:** January 14, 2007, 10:20:23 AM »

Unfortunately, there are certain issues that aren't always real simple and black or white. (Take your income taxes to three accountatnts, and you will likely get three different amounts for your tax return.) It's in the interpretation, like it or not.
I know I have made a reasonable and objective effort to find out what the regulations really are (and share them), and I come away with the opinion that this issue is not resolved to the point where it is plainly and specifically stated as law with regard to all of the possibilities that exist in different jurisidictions.
I think that all that has been said and offered here is to be aware of the issues, and I choose to err on safe side. There are a lot of issues with my state and local regulations in Illinois that can get the well-meaning but uninformed gun owner in trouble. Not worth it to me.
I'm glad you buy your TC stuff where everyone is a legal expert because they sell a lot of Encore barrels. You're really fortunate to have such a good place to shop.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2007, 12:39:51 PM »

I am looking at my "Application/Record of Sale" form (Purchaser copy) of the last T\C that I bot.

Section E: Firearm Information, Box 49: Does the purchase involve a pistol or revolver with a barrrel length of less than 15 inches. A shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18 inches, a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches, or a firearm with an overall length of less than 26 inches?

That question was answered YES (I purchased only a frame).

Box 50. Make: Thompson Center
Box 51.. Model: Contender
Box 52. Caliber: Frame
Box 53. Length of Barrel: None
Box 54. Serial Number: xxx,xxx

I purchase a Frame only. No barrel at all. This was from a large chain store that begins with a "C" and doesn't sell womens high heel shoes or auto repairs.

Now, if you read the questions critically, they ask if these shorter barrels are "involved" in the purchase of this firearm. Accordingly, even though a barrel was not being purchased with this frame, and a handgun barrel COULD be mounted to it OR a longgun barrel COULD be mounted to it.....in any event, a shorter barrel could be "involved" in the purchase of this firearm.....now....or 50 years form now.

So, yes.....I feel fortunate to live in the great country of Pennsylvania (at times....not all the times....maybe 50\50) and fortunate to live near the big "C" store that has people that are knoweldgable. They have to be.....they have millions on the shelves and don't want to make silly little mistakes that will have 'em close down.

Dave

neald · « **Reply #27 on:** January 15, 2007, 10:18:33 AM »

Hello folks,
I will try this again. last post was lost into the nether world I guess.
I will sugest that you join the T/C Assoc and ask Art the presideint this question. He is very well versed on this subject.

Also , please be nice to everyone as we are supposed to be somewhat of a brotherhood. This is the most flack I have seen here,
Thanks for reading
Neal