?? about working up a load

[dmills]

I swear I read the "New to Reloading" thread several times as well as several manuals, reloading guides, and other sources, and did not see this topic covered.

In working up a load, what is a good procedure to follow.

I am starting with once fired brass from my rife (25-06), Federal large rifle primers (that was the only brand available at Sportmans Warehouse this morning in large rifle), H4831, Nosler BT 100 gr. bullets.  Cases are decapped, cleaned, neck sized, trimmed and chamfered, and now reprimed.  Several sources list this powder and bullet combination with different starting loads.  So I have decided on the 51 grain starting point since this is recommended on 2 sources. 

So without a chrony (at this time) and shooting for accuracy, how many cartridges should I load and test at this starting point- 10 15 20 or more?  I am going to start with 10 for this afternoon and then load 2 more groups of 10 in 1 gr. increments. 

I will appreciate any comments and advice.  Thanks.

[jpsmith1]

Myself, I generally load 5 of each powder charge. 4 batches.  I shoot 4 - 5 shot groups and decide where to go from there.  I've also done 3 of each powder charge, but it doesn't work out to an even 'batch' of ammo.  I like to keep my batches of brass loaded and fired together.  This helps me to keep track of # of firings and what load is in what case at what time. 

[Don Fischer]

Starting up a load in a new rifle or with a new powder, I like to first work up from min to max to find out where my rifle will run into pressure with that powder/bullet/case  combination. One round each going up in 1/2gr increments. Again, all I'm looking for is pressure indications.ie: excessively flattened primers, black ring (gas leak) around the primer, sticky bolt lift. Flat primer alone doesn't mean a lot but if it's excessive, has black ring around it, cratered around the fireing pin indent, just concider it max. Also look for an extractor mark on the base where the headstamp is. If you find that mark,will be shiny and indented a bit,  or if you run into sticky bolt lift, back off at least one grain from where it first show's and call that max.

Also, on these loads be sure that the bullet is seated well back off the lands. If you get the bullet into the lands the round could show pressure that's not really there if the bullet is off the lands.

I never ever use my cronograph to develope loads.I use it to determine what I have and figure trajectory after I find the load I want. A cronograph will not tell you pressures, it'll only suggest what's happening. The guy's using a cronograph to develope loads with are running strictly on theory and 50,000lbs plus pressure being held in your hands should demand a bit more than theory. Visual and physical signs are there and in my opinion, a much better indication of pressure. Understand that you'll never know what that pressure is, only if it's to much for your rifle or the case your using.

No company giving out pressure data uses a cronograph to determine it. I would be willing to bet that any experienced handloader that is using a cronograph to develope loads would not ignor visual and physical indications of pressure in favor of cronograph readings.

Once you find your pressure load, which may be above or below the listed max, start several grs below it and load up group's of three in half or even one grain increment's to find the best group. Once you have it you can go a bit either way to see if something better is there. Find the best load then you can tweek it with seating depth. Sometimes I find that changing primers helps but, when changing prrimers reduce the load a bit and work back up. You can use the data for the 100gr bullet from any reloading mannual, just remember to start low and find the pressure limit for the rifle your working with.

[Almtnman]

I also work 5 at a time with different loads and see which one is the best. After I find which powder load and which primer is best, then I start tweaking the load by neck sizing if it's used in a bolt action, seating the bullet just off the rifling (I use .004 off), unforming the primer pocket and flashhole. I have also found that some brass seems to be better than other brass, I like Federal brass, but if you can afford it Norma brass is even better than Federal.

[dmills]

Thanks for the replies.

I went on with my plan before receiving your replies.  Loaded 10 with 51 gr. and 10 with 52 gr.  Absolutely no problems with loading, and all rounds shot without incident.  Reloads were coming in about 3" lower than factory rounds. Cases show no signs of pressure problems and the primers look like the primers on the factory loads. 

I am shooting in a single-shot (H&R Handi Rifle) so no extractor marks will show on cases.

For my next loads, I will work up to determine max in 1/2 grain increments as recommended. 

As far as seating is concerned, I went by the min. OAL shown in the Lee Manual of 3.20 and set mine at 3.3.  The factory loads were 3.19.  How do you determine where the "rifling" starts in the barrel?

BTW, just for the experience, I picked up some newly fired 30-06 and .270 brass at the range to neck down.  Their soaking in vinegar and salt at this time.  Gotta drag myself over to Cabelas to get a tumbler.  More tools, more toys. 

[Almtnman]

I determined my rifles seating depths from the rifling by making some dummy loads, empty case with a bullet seated out as far in the case as it would fit without falling out. Just put it in my rifle, closed the bolt and the rifling's seated the bullet on into the case. Took it out, measured it's length and then very slowing seated it on in another .004. You'll have to have a micrometer to check the length doing that. Then I use that dummy round to set my seating die when I'm loading for that particular bullet. I have a couple of 30-06's I load for and loads for one will not fit the other, so I have to mark the boxes of reloads, loads for the Ruger and loads for the Sako.

[Don Fischer]

To measure the case length there is several ways. One mentioned above which works. Some times it is hard to do tho unless you squeeze the neck slightly to hold the bullet, blacken the bullet's shank with a candle or match then start in the case. Then even if the bullet sticks in the lands, the squeezed part of the case will scrape off the black and show you where to seat the bullet. Another way is to close the action and run a cleaning rod down the barrel, with a plug in the end of the rod, to the face of your reciever. Mark the cleaning rod right atthe muzzle. Next, open the reciever and drop in a bullet. Hold the bullet there with a pencil eraser and put the cleaning rod in again and re-mark the rod at the end of the barrel. The plug in the rod will keep the nose of the bullet from going inside the end of the rod. Measure between the marks and set your die up to seat that distence. Now load one round and black the bullet, after seating. Take that round and put it in your chamber and close it. Open the chamber and look at the bullet for small land marks around the bullet where it would enguage the rifling. If none, your set. If there are marks then screw the seater plug down a bit and do it until it no longer shows rifling marks. From there you'll be just off the lands.

[PaulS]

Don't worry about trying to put your loaded rounds close to the lands - you can play with seated depth after you find an accurate round. Start at the minimum and work up slowly until you find a load that produces small groups. This means you have to shoot each round carefully aiming at the same point and holding your rifle in a consistant manner. Shoot until the load starts to get big again or until you reach the listed maimum or your load shows signs of over pressure. Keep good records. Concentrate your loads around the smallest group and load in 1 grain increments and then around the smallest groups in .5 grain, .3 grain and finally .1 grain increments to find your most accurate load. If you are unhappy with the smallest load you get with that powder then switch to another powder that is close to the one that gives the highest velocity in the manuals. Work up another load with it and keep trying new powders until you get a "smallest" group. I usually have three powders to start with and one of the three is the best one for my combination of powder, bullet, primer and gun. You can fine tune your load with seating depth, neck sizing (if you are using a single shot or bolt action gun) and primer changes. I actually enjoy finding that "magic" round that prints small groups as much as shooting the small groups time after time. After I get the best load I use the chronograph to get the velocity figures so that I can record the average velocity and SD (standard deviation) so that I can predict my trajectory using a ballistics program on the computer.

[beemanbeme]

If you have access to a range with 250 or 300 yard targets, the ladder method works well.  The only reason you need 250 or 300 yards is so the individual shots will disperse enough to be meaningful. 
Select your powder and bullet. With a rifle on the order of a '06, .270, .308. etc, I use a 1 grain increment between rounds.   Load one round near the starting load. Load another 1 grain higher. And so forth until you are near the max.  Keep your rounds carefully segregated. ( I use a marker pen and simply write "1", "2", etc on the side of the cartridge) Fire you ammo, in sequence, at the target and carefully plot each bullet strike on a cheat sheet. 
When you retrieve your target, you will notice some of the bullets clustered close together while others spread out a bit.  You want to note the clusters as that is the sweet spot(s) for that combo.  Now then, you want to take the high and low charge from your best cluster and use that as your limits for a second series.  This time use .5 grains as you seperation. If the best cluster is near the top of the powder charge and you haven't any pressure signs, you may want to try another series going a bit higher with your charge.
When you get it narrowed down to a few grains of powder difference in the cluster, you can start loading your groups of 5 or more. 
I'm not being a wisea$$ but loading 10 rounds at a time when you don't know what the results are gonna be is a waste of time and powder. 

[dmills]

I'm not being a wisea$$ but loading 10 rounds at a time when you don't know what the results are gonna be is a waste of time and powder. 

Yeah, I realize  now (not that you're a wisea$$) that 10 rounds at a time to start looking for a load was a waste of powder.  My time I think was not wasted since it gave me practice in loading and consistency.  I come from a muzzleloading background, where it takes a good number of shots with one powder/patch/ball/lube combination to evaluate. 

I do not have easy access to a 250 or 300 yd range--100 only.