Author Topic: What's so great about the 7.62X39?? (Read 1514 times)

Stan in SC · « **on:** January 07, 2007, 08:40:52 AM »

I am throwing this out to spark some discussion and help us all get our thinking straightened out on the desirability of the 7.62X39 cartridge in a Handi Rifle or other available single shot rifle that we like.
I'm like everyone else in that I anxiously awaited the arrival of the 7.62X39 barrels figuring that it would be a really great way to shoot some cheap ammunition as well as having a nice velocity hunting round with ballistics similar to the venerable 30-30.I really like the 7.62X39 cartridge.
Then reports began to be posted here and elsewhere that the barrels would not reliably fire the deep set hard military primers.There went cheap plinking.OK,what is left?Commercial 7.62X39.
But you can buy and shoot 30-30 for less money with the approximate same results and better bullet weights than the 7.62X39.I have yet to see a Handi Rifle in 30-30 that wasn't a good shooter. NEF has now,from what I have read, discontinued the 7.62X39 barrell.
Hornady then introduced the Lever revolution ammunition that elevated the possible results for the 30-30.Bingo,30-30 comes out on top.
My present thinking on this now is that the military round is better relegated to the SKS's and AK's.
The 30-30 still is viable and with the new ammunition desireable.

Stan

tallyho · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2007, 09:08:09 AM »

Yep. My present thinking too.

mt3030 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2007, 09:51:37 AM »

Until recently I was looking for a complete Handi in 7.62x39. But my plan was to have it rechambered, using the .310 bore for another caliber. That was the only use I could see for it once it was obvious that the mil surp ammo was of no use.

bluebayou · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2007, 10:17:33 AM »

I think that the cartridge itself has a lot of potential for me, personally. I wish that I could find a cheap rifle that was a) .310 bore, b) had stronger spring or ignition, and c) wasn't sloppily bedded. I just bought an SKS and it works flawlessly in it's intended role. But, the bedding design is awful. If it was consistent then it would be my favorite rifle (right now). With a bad shoulder, I love the .223, but wish that it was a .30 for shooting game. I was disgusted that the Handi was....mis-engineered.

My new project is to get this SKS to shoot 2" at 100 yards. I think that most internet discussion of their accuracy is exaggerated, but I have a good one to begin with.

With the Handi, I am leaning toward 357 Max or 30/30 for a plinker/youth rifle. A role which a 7.62x39 that fired Wolf would have filled nicely.

Swampman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2007, 04:14:23 PM »

If I had a 7.62X39 barrel, I'd convert it to .303.

Hobie · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2007, 04:20:50 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on January 07, 2007, 04:14:23 PM

If I had a 7.62X39 barrel, I'd convert it to .303.

My thinking exactly.

Stan in SC · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2007, 04:32:11 PM »

Converting it to .303 British is a good idea since the rifle already has a .310 bore and it's a rimmed cartridge with decent within limitation pressures.Another alternative is to convert to 7.62X54R but there you have the same hard primer situation that you have with 7.62X39 if you wish to use milsurp ammo.
I'd consider that .303 British alternative if I didn't already have (A) a custom .303 sporter and (B)a sporterized No.1Mk.III both of which are fantastic in the accuracy department.
If you handload you can make some really neat .303 British loads using the 7.62X39 (.310)bullet in 123 Grain weight.
But I am digressing from the original post topic.So far I am seeing that from your various comments that the 7.62X39 barrell is not going to replace the 30-30 in our minds or that someone is going to come up with a good rechamber job.Interesting comments from some thoughful and knowledgeable people so far.

Stan

myarmor · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2007, 07:25:02 PM »

I am in the works of the transfer of an new 7.62x39 Handi.. I personally have been looking foward to getting one for quite some time. Thank You nomosendero

It would have never taken the place of the 30-30 in the hearts of Americans. The Ol' 30-30 is an American classic and will probably never go away.
Many scoff at the Metric designations. One of my best friends had a sporter made out of a Spanish Mauser and specifally wanted the designation of 7.62x51 on the new rebarrel, not 308 Win, just for traditional reasons.
The Smith was outraged and ended up engraving the barrel 308 Win, because it was American.
I aint raising any ruckuss' just saying that some of the Ol' over sea's chambers are pretty good. And in an effective 7.62x39 single shot, I see many reasons for owning one. The 30-30 can do all that the little Russian can, but it's kind of a novelity thing to Americans. As the 22Hornet is to the 223. The 223 can do all the Hornet can and more so, But the world wide use of the 7.62 still ranges on. Quite probably the most chambered caliber ever offered in the world. Not to mention the use of it in the Russian woodlands for providing game with the only rifle many families have there. Decent velocity in an .30 cal makes for a very effective deer round, with a lot less meat damage. Not to mention less noise, recoil, and muzzle jump. And longer case life, as the 30-30 is rather thin walled.
I understand the nay/sayers of it not firing the Wolf and Mil. Spec brand=CHEAP ammo. But with cheap ammo...Wolf/Brown Bear, etc.. I do understand the upset. People want to shoot and have a rifle that is easy to scope. Mil. Surplus rifles are a ton of fun and are chambered in a lot of cheap surplus ammo that is not used, but not so easy to scope. But we all have to admit, even with the now and then nice group, most all suplus is just not accurate as any handload and workable factory load. Once in awhile you will find a surplus rifle and surplus ammo that is made for each other. But all in all, this isn't exactly the most accurate ammo availible.
The 7.62x39 is not the most powerful nor the most versitile. It's very fitting for the SKS or AK. Still I believe it's a usefull caliber to those that choose to handload. And I, among many..do.
I don't believe it's a caliber for everone. But It's a nice "inbetween caliber" that choose to do so.
NEF never has recomended the use of Mil.Surplus ammo...and even with the addition of such a chamber that screams of it...kind of shot it's self in the foot.
All in all I believe they should at least offer this barrel in the program for those that find a use for it.

-Aaron

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2007, 07:37:46 PM »

Quote

What's so great about the 7.62X39??

IMHO...absolutely nothing...especially in a Handi...I've owned a few AK-47 and a few SKS before...only because I got them dirt cheap and turned around and sold them..I could burn up a bunch of ammo with them..and that to me is really all they are good for...There are far better choices to shoot surplus ammo from other than a Handi..

Like I said...It's just my opinion

Mac

myarmor · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2007, 07:46:54 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on January 07, 2007, 07:37:46 PM

Quote
What's so great about the 7.62X39??
...There are far better choices to shoot surplus ammo from other than a Handi....
Mac

Absolutely. There are more Mil. Surplus rifles and ammo out there to enjoy. Many are very accurate and more powerful than the 7.62x39. Like the 7.62x54r and 8mm. These pack quite a punch and are a ton of fun. Just be careful with the offerings -steel core and steel jackets. They shread through almost anything you can point at.

As much as I would love to see these in a Handi. I really don't see any viable point.
Lets enjoy them in our SKS's, Ak's and our old Mosins and Mausers.
Not Handis, but a whole lot of history to be had in them.

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2007, 08:05:51 PM »

Personally I would wonder if the reason folks have had failures with a 7.62X39 wasn't because of excess headspace rather than a soft hammer blow. I can't imagine a Handi not having enough force to pop the primer on anything. I could also be trash or dirt in the system somewhere between the transfer bar and the firing pin or the firing pip hole.
If you reload .30-30's for a handi bullet shape has never been a problem. I used 150 grain Speer spire points in a T/C Contender 25 years ago with great success.
IMHO if a Handi in 7.62X39 won't shoot the cheap Mil Surp ammo then there's no reason for it's existence. You don't gain anything over the .30-30.

Rusty <><

Mac11700 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2007, 08:13:54 PM »

Different folks wants different guns I guess Rusty...I have to say...To each his own... on this choice..

Mac

eskimo36 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2007, 04:48:40 AM »

My idea for the place in the handi world for the few available 7.62x39 barrels would be as a low budget 30 caliber subsonic round with lead bullets or milsurp bullets for cat/squirrel/gopher patrol. I might also use it as a close range calling rifle.

wtroger · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2007, 08:12:34 AM »

The 7.62 X39 is a good round when used with the right bullets. The steel case and hard primers are what got H&R in trouble. I have a 98 Mauser done in the round and I reload for it and get sub moa goups with remington brass and 125 gr Nosler bullets and aa1680 powder and yes I used a 308 barrel and shoot 308 bullets. Interesting is Ruger use 308 barrels on the min-thirties with out issues and we know a lot of 310 bullets get shot in those. I would take a handi in this caliber in a heart beat if I could find one I could afford
If I didn't like it I would rechamber it 7.62 Argentine (belgium) this round is so close the the 308 it is scary and it use a 310/311 bullet and it is rimless.

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2007, 11:56:45 AM »

The rim is why I would go with the .303.

superjay01 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2007, 12:29:53 PM »

I have a 7.62 barrel and enjoy it. I reload for it so I have a few different loads for it depending on what I'm hunting. I did get a deer with it this year. It's an accurate round and doesn't really kick a whole lot. On a different note does anyone know who would turn that barrel into a 303 British? I have an extra barrel and have wanted to do it I'm just not sure who will do it without charging an arm and leg.

OBXPilgrim · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2007, 01:00:33 PM »

Rustyinfla said "Personally I would wonder if the reason folks have had failures with a 7.62X39 wasn't because of excess headspace rather than a soft hammer blow. I can't imagine a Handi not having enough force to pop the primer on anything"

I wouldn't believe it's true either & I'll tell you why. I've got a 7.62x39 barrel & it's never seen a surplus round. I gave a bunch of surplus ammo to my Dad after I got the barrel without even trying the cheap stuff. It shot all the reloads I put thru it until my 14 yr old dropped the hammer with a doe in his sights. In fact, he dropped the hammer three times on it before he changed rounds & then missed - deer had moved off about 40 yards.

Culprit looked to be more recessed primers than hard primers, I had Winchester LR in my reloads. We tried several other rounds & 4 others failed to fire. The thought crossed my mind about excessive headspace instead of the recessed primers (which we could both feel the depth difference & predict which would & wouldn't fire). To prove the recessed primer problem, I took two 7.62x39 cases and shoved them into a .357 Mag resize die to expand the neck up into a semi-straight case. Then ran it back into the 7.62x39 die, slowly, checking it in the chamber until the gun would just close. Seated a primer deep into the pocket, and dropped the hammer on the empty case in the gun. Two misfires.

I realize this only proved the deep primer problem on MY barrel, but think it was pretty conclusive.

mt3030 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2007, 04:50:08 PM »

Quote from: wtroger on January 08, 2007, 08:12:34 AM

....would rechamber it 7.62 Argentine (belgium)....

I agree. I'm a fan of both the 7.62 Argentine and 303. But in terms of performance and case life, the Arge wins hands down. I have three rifle chambered for it now, but none of them are easily scoped. And at it's operating pressures, stuck cases would never be a problem.

warf73 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2007, 07:50:44 PM »

If anyone has an old junk 7.62X39 barrel laying around drop me a pm I will take it off your hands.

Warf

tallyho · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2007, 08:16:43 PM »

Quote from: warf73 on January 08, 2007, 07:50:44 PM

If anyone has an old junk 7.62X39 barrel laying around drop me a pm I will take it off your hands.

Warf

Ditto...

Even though I love the 30/30 I'm not as narrow minded as I may appear.

P.S. Wally (mt3030) I sent you a PM yesterday about a totally unrelated subject, did you get it?

PartsMan · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2007, 03:19:31 AM »

Quote from: warf73 on January 08, 2007, 07:50:44 PM

If anyone has an old junk 7.62X39 barrel laying around drop me a pm I will take it off your hands.

Warf

Me to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
less recoil
Nuf said

mt3030 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2007, 03:21:50 AM »

Quote from: tallyho on January 08, 2007, 08:16:43 PM

... I sent you a PM yesterday about a totally unrelated subject, did you get it?

Yep. Tried to answer it and all I got was "Page can not be displayed". Feel free to use anything you need.

Wally

twocan · « **Reply #22 on:** January 09, 2007, 12:40:56 PM »

can someone give me an idea on how many 7.62x39 that nef let out there door?