Author Topic: 50 cal ban in Idaho proposed! (Read 8431 times)

Lar45 · « **on:** January 11, 2007, 06:37:19 AM »

Hi all, I just got back from the gun shop and they were talking about some proposed legislation to ban all 50 caliber centerfires for hunting.
If the F&G is considering this, I think we should send lots of letters, emails, phone calls... to voice our opinions.

Here is a link to the info.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/about/commission/jan_07/7.pdf
Maximum Caliber Restriction: Currently, Idaho does not impose a maximum caliber restriction for firearms used to hunt big game. Some hunters are concerned about the “fair chase” aspects of long-range cartridges and have requested a rule change to prohibit the use of 50 caliber or larger centerfire cartridges.
2. Should Idaho restrict the use of 50 caliber or larger centerfire cartridges for hunting big game in Idaho?
 No  No Opinion  Yes

It looks like the meeting is going on this week. I don't know if there is enough time to print the survey and send it in.

Here's their address:
Idaho Fish and Game Commission
Annual Meeting - January 10-12, 2007
Fish and Game Headquarters
600 South Walnut, Boise, ID

Other info:
Individuals with disabilities may request meeting accommodations by contacting the Idaho Department of Fish and Game Director's office at (208) 334-5159 or through the Idaho Relay Service at 1-800-377-2529 (TDD).

e-mail: idfginfo@idfg.idaho.gov

Link to online contact us: http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/inc/contact.cfm

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2007, 10:39:40 AM »

Sounds like if you don't get it stopped, you won't be able to use a 500 Mag handgun or the old 50-110 Sharps as well as the 50 BMG.
Once they get there hands on one caliber, they try for another.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2007, 12:23:29 PM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on January 11, 2007, 10:39:40 AM

Sounds like if you don't get it stopped, you won't be able to use a 500 Mag handgun or the old 50-110 Sharps as well as the 50 BMG.
Once they get there hands on one caliber, they try for another.

I got to agree with Redhawk1.........no need to ban anything......

DWTim · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2007, 01:30:07 PM »

Redhawk1, that's a great example. The .50-110 has been around since before Idaho was a state. It wasn't a problem for the last century, why is it a problem now?

GEMSBUCK · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2007, 06:59:48 AM »

it's not a problem it is the air heads that are trying to use a 50 BMG to shoot elk and deer 3/4 mile away and ending up with cripples that are the cause of the problem. not to mention shooting thru poor backstops with FMJ,etc

tanoose · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2007, 03:46:22 PM »

And if its passed there would also be alot of 50 and n54 caliber renegade muzzleloaders for sale. I would vote against the ban.

handirifle · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2007, 07:19:15 PM »

Quote from: NONYA on January 13, 2007, 04:23:54 PM

Im all in favor of gun rights but the .50 bmg has no place in the field in my OPINION.We have a group around here bragging about thier 1 mile elk kills and all it does is make hunters in gerneral look bad,i dont want any more restrictions on my hunting but i dont want to see it turn into a .50 bmg sport.IDC how good a shot you are you cant say its sporting to shoot at an elk 1 mile away when the bullet takes that long to get there and the game will very likley move during that time,these morons cruise the logging roads looking for elk in the high meadows first thing in the morning and then set up thier little bench off the road and start blasting away,wouldnt bother me at all to see an end to this crap.

I'm not from that part of the country, but I agree with you 100%, that is not hunting and the 50 BMG has no place in the field, that's my firm opinion. The F&G should be asked to limit their ban to the 50 BMG. CA banned ownership of them alltogether, I don't agree with that, but they were very specific in their description of it so as NOT to restrice other 50 caliber weapons. Sounds like Idaho F&G needs to read up a bit on 50 cals.

IF a guy could shoulder his 50 BMG and carry it through the mountains like we do when hunting elk, and maybe take a 500 or 600yd shot, I doubt anyone would care, but if they do as described it would piss me off too, if I saw it in the field.

Hunting is not a right guaranteed by the US constitution, but some states have ammended their state constitutions to make it so. Even then. just like voting is the right of every citizen of legal age, it CAN be revoked. Snipers that shoot at an enemy combatant from any range, prefer to kill their targets, but a wounded enemy is good too. A wounded elk or deer from THAT type of shot is inexcusable.

22rimfan · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2007, 07:54:30 PM »

Quote from: tanoose on January 13, 2007, 03:46:22 PM

And if its passed there would also be alot of 50 and n54 caliber renegade muzzleloaders for sale. I would vote against the ban.

tanoose, they only want to ban 50 calliber up centerfire cartridges, not muzzleloaders.

I agree with others, they should not try to ban the 50, which would ban the 50-120, 54 Spencer, 505 Gibbs, the 577 Trex, the 600 NE, the 4 Bore, and several other rifles. I can understand where the state is wanting to ban them from HUNTING, but they did not say ownership. As with having a minimum caliber for large game, I can understand Idaho wanting to set a maximum caliber. But what would this caliber be, a 416, 45, 460, or for all we they could set it at 338 or 308? Now if Idaho only wanted to ban the 50 BMG, they could write it into the laws as that and not ban all other 50+ caliber rifles. In TN's regulations it says that we are not allowed to hunt with FMJ bullets. If Idaho wanted to ban the 50, and only the 50, they could write, "The minimum calliber shall be .243 and above, but no rifle chambered for the 50 BMG is legal to hunt with," for example.

Should people hunt with with 50? That is for them to decide. If they can make a shot at 3/4 of a mile away and kill the animal humanely koodos for them, I know that I cannot, and since I cannot do that I will not do that. But Idaho should not try to limit the caliber. If this passes it will not be long before other states decide to follow their lead. But this is just my opinion.
Aaron

victorcharlie · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2007, 02:16:13 AM »

IMO, the weight, and the price of a 50 BMG is the limiting factor when used for hunting......

At 37 pounds, their isn't going to be a lot of fellows hauling that heavy of a rifle.

Most 50 BMG rifles are priced at least 3 times what a factory production rifle would cost, and a nice one goes for much, much more.... so most fellows simply can't afford one, or would choose to buy several other rifles instead.

Simply, A 50 BMG isn't practical for hunting......

As I question just how many 50 BMG's are actually going to be used in the field, I find a ban has nothing to do with hunting, but with use and possession of a firearm chambered in that caliber.

IMO, this is a law that addresses nothing to do with hunting and need not be passed.

Yea, there might be a few that would use the round for hunting.......so what? Let them be idiots if they want to be........

Remember liberty?

DWTim · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2007, 07:02:49 AM »

I'd just like to point out that a slob hunter can wound game with any caliber.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2007, 07:32:17 AM »

I don't think the 50 BMG should be banned to own or hunt with, but I don't think it has a real place in the hunting world either, because it is not a gun that is easily transported. But if it is legal, it should be OK.

The everyday hunter is not going to use a 50 BMG, I know I would not use one. I owned 2 of the 50 BMG's, one was a 32 pound gun and the other was a 20 pound gun. I would not take any of them hunting. I sold my 50 BMG when the range I was shooting at banned them. I think the 50 BMG is a blast to shoot and should remain a long range target gun and not a hunting round.

A slob hunter as some of you described does not depict someone that just uses a 50 BMG for hunting, but I have seen slob hunters use everyday common hunting rifles. The slob is the hunter not the gun.

DWTim · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2007, 08:10:15 AM »

Well, looks like it's a moot point for now:

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/apps/releases/view.cfm?NewsID=3662

Quote from: Commissioners clarify muzzleloader rules

The commissioners did not adopt a proposed restriction on the use of .50-caliber or larger ammunition.

big_bore_encore · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2007, 03:09:46 PM »

Somehow I am not shocked by this proposal, fortunately it was shot down. I have been an Idaho native for 28 years and the proposal comes as no suprise to me with the clowns that run the F&G. There has been a regulation in effect for years that pretty much does away with the 50BMG anyways. You aren't allowed to use a firearm that, in combination with scope, weighs more than something like 16lbs. I guess for now I can still use my 500S&W Mag this year.

Tim

billy_56081 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 14, 2007, 03:22:55 PM »

For now the proposed ban is gone.

Please lets all stick together as hunters. According to PETA there isn't anything fair chase, sporting or humane in hunting.

United we stand divided we fall!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 15, 2007, 02:14:45 AM »

Quote from: NONYA on January 14, 2007, 07:14:21 PM

BEING UNITED DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING GOES,THATS A INCLUSIVE ATTITUDE THAT DOES NOTHING TO FURTHER OR SPORT.THE 50 BMG HAS NO PLACE IN THE HUNTING WORLD AND WE ALL KNOW IT,THEY JUST NEED TO BE SPECIFIVC IN THIER PROPOSAL AND NOT GENERLZE WITH ALL .50CALIBERS.IF THEY ALREADY HAVE A WEIGHT LIMIT IT SHOULD ELIMINATE THE USE OF THE 50 BMG BARRETT

I disagree, we do need to stick together, that is the problem with hunters and firearms owners. We are own worst enemies. We don't have to agree with everything but at least support it.

I am glad to hear it did not go through.

slave · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2007, 07:04:36 AM »

Is it safe to hunt with a BMG? Can someone convince me that they are 100% sure of there target and the next 2 miles.

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2007, 08:11:41 AM »

Nobody has any business shooting at big game animals at extreme distances, it isn't hunting. However it has nothing to do with caliber as there are other calibers that can be used at very long range (600+ yards) the 338 Lapua comes to mind. If you own a 50BMG great, just don't take it hunting, or better yet lug that thing up a mountain and shoot your animal inside 300 yards like the rest of the HUNTERS in this country.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2007, 04:50:14 AM »

I agree, that is not hunting. I have nothing against big-bores and long range shooting and enjoy it myself. I really enjoy shooting my 45-70 as well as my .50, .54, and .56 caliber muzzleloaders, but any slob that sets up a shooting bench on the side of the road and then shoots at an Elk a mile or so away with a .50 BMG round should have that gun confiscated (and it be donated to the nearest Shooting Club or Sportsmans Organization). He should then only be allowed to hunt with a longbow and homemade wooden arrows, as I choose to do in Maine, we will then see if he is a "hunter" or an inconsiderate slob who by his immature actions is hurting all of us and the sport we love....<><...

Sourdough · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2007, 10:13:02 AM »

Does not matter what we think, the 50BMGs are out there. I know of weveral people that use them, far more than you would expect. Several miners have them for problem Grizzlies, and I know of three city dewellers that have them and use them to shoot game with. One of my neighbors just bought one, he wants to use it for Moose and Grizzly. He has not shot it yet, I'm waiting for that. Not sure how I feel about it. He has to prove to me he can make a clean consistant kill every time. And I don't mean shooting at game either.

Sourdough · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2007, 10:20:18 AM »

Quote from: Sourdough on January 17, 2007, 10:13:02 AM

Does not matter what we think, the 50BMGs are out there. I know of several people that use them, far more than you would expect. Several miners have them for problem Grizzlies, and I know of three city dewellers that have them and use them to shoot game with. One of my neighbors just bought one, he wants to use it for Moose and Grizzly. He has not shot it yet, I'm waiting for that. Not sure how I feel about it. He has to prove to me he can make a clean consistant kill every time. And I don't mean shooting at game either.

corbanzo · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2007, 03:14:00 PM »

Oregon isn't doing too good of a job as a buffer... all those california ideas are getting into Idaho....

nomosendero · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2007, 02:25:58 AM »

I don't use a 50BMG for hunting & I don't own one. If I bought one, it would be for the range. To me it is a bench/target & special purpose weapon. I believe a 50BMG could be used responsably if the owner tries, but then it won't really do anything that a 300RUM would not do, so why lug a 40# rifle around. That being said, I KNOW the maximum cartridge idea will create BIG problems down the road.

I understand Nonya's concerns & shooting from the side of the road & the way he describes is a concern. The "situation" reminds me of what our founders said, our type of government/freedom can only occur with honorable men. This applies to all our rights in general, be it handguns & everything else. So, as we have more goofy morons without principle, we will all suffer, be it handguns or anything else. The problem is our politicians lack honor themselves, & will use such legislation as this to eventually take our hunting rights. It will be easy to decide that the 338Lapua, 300RUM & others are "sniper rounds" & the wacko's will need to save us. And a 6.5X20 is a "sniper" scope, later a 4.5X14, etc.

We will then have idiots trying to tell us what the maximum range will HAVE to be, & it won't be long range. Then the self proclaimed gurus will tell us we really don't need a 300WM because it is illegal to hunt with anyway, so turn them in now!

So yes, tools misapplied is a problem, but I will NEVER agree with getting the Legislative ball rolling, because the further the ball rolls, the bigger it will get.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 18, 2007, 03:38:45 AM »

nomosendero, well said.

dukkillr · « **Reply #23 on:** January 18, 2007, 05:33:45 AM »

Quote from: nomosendero on January 18, 2007, 02:25:58 AM

I don't use a 50BMG for hunting & I don't own one. If I bought one, it would be for the range. To me it is a bench/target & special purpose weapon. I believe a 50BMG could be used responsably if the owner tries, but then it won't really do anything that a 300RUM would not do, so why lug a 40# rifle around. That being said, I KNOW the maximum cartridge idea will create BIG problems down the road.

I understand Nonya's concerns & shooting from the side of the road & the way he describes is a concern. The "situation" reminds me of what our founders said, our type of government/freedom can only occur with honorable men. This applies to all our rights in general, be it handguns & everything else. So, as we have more goofy morons without principle, we will all suffer, be it handguns or anything else. The problem is our politicians lack honor themselves, & will use such legislation as this to eventually take our hunting rights. It will be easy to decide that the 338Lapua, 300RUM & others are "sniper rounds" & the wacko's will need to save us. And a 6.5X20 is a "sniper" scope, later a 4.5X14, etc.

We will then have idiots trying to tell us what the maximum range will HAVE to be, & it won't be long range. Then the self proclaimed gurus will tell us we really don't need a 300WM because it is illegal to hunt with anyway, so turn them in now!

So yes, tools misapplied is a problem, but I will NEVER agree with getting the Legislative ball rolling, because the further the ball rolls, the bigger it will get.

As with other things, if hunters don't police themselves someone else will. And you won't like the results.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 18, 2007, 08:12:57 AM »

dukkillr, sorry but they are going to do what they want. Just because hunters police themselves is not going to affect the anti's from coming after all our guns.
There has to be a line drawn in the sand, and now is the time, not after a 50 BMG ban. A very good example of that is California. Look real had at there laws.
They want all our guns gone, they just need to keep picking away at them and like good little solders some of you guys are will to fold to the pressure and say, well I don't use a 50 BMG so let them take it. WRONG!!!

If someone wants to use a 50 BMG let them, I don't use one for hunting and never will, but I will support anyone that wants to lug a 32 pound rifle in the woods and hunt, or shoot game as some of you put it.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 18, 2007, 01:01:58 PM »

Quote from: NONYA on January 18, 2007, 10:01:00 AM

they dont lug them into the woods,they drive them around until they can put them on a portable shooting bench they carry in the back of the truck.Cant you see how detrimental this style of "hunting" can be to our sport?

Just how many people are doing it? I have never actually seen anyone with a 50 BMG out hunting, nor have I heard of anyone doing it, other than on the Internet.

You need to come to Delaware, anyone can hunt groundhogs with any rifle. If I want to shoot them with a 458 WM or a 50 BMG it is legal. But then again, I have never seen anyone do it or heard of anyone doing it.

But still, I support if someone wanted to do it. Sorry but I am for gun rights, ALL OF THEM. And if it is legal to hunt with one, who are we to criticize?

I guess we just do not agree on this one.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #26 on:** January 18, 2007, 01:14:19 PM »

Well guys I have been giving this problem and all the responses some thought and I think I have an answer. Do not outlaw the .50 BMG round for hunting, and also allow it's use on ranges in all 50 states with no restrictions on firearms chamberered in that cartridge on shooting ranges.
However, if anyone wanted to use a .50 BMG for hunting the overall weight of the firearm chambered for that round could not exceed that of any other lightweight sporting rifle and that weight shall be set at a maximum of 7.0 pounds inclusive of firearm, scope, slings, swivels, and ammunition. The firearm could only be fired from the offhand or prone position and the eye relief of the required optical sighting attachment or telescopic sight must be between .5 and 1.0 inches....<><....

they would only have one shot, they had better make it good!!!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** January 18, 2007, 01:26:26 PM »

While I'm sure shooting game animals with the .50BMG isn't common, some do!

http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/hunting/photogallery/article/0,13355,1575411_0,00.html

And some even shoot varmints!!!

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/50calibre/chuck_hunting.htm

Tim

nomosendero · « **Reply #28 on:** January 18, 2007, 02:01:55 PM »

Quote from: NONYA on January 18, 2007, 10:01:00 AM

they dont lug them into the woods,they drive them around until they can put them on a portable shooting bench they carry in the back of the truck.Cant you see how detrimental this style of "hunting" can be to our sport?

Yes, I can, but that same thing is being done with lesser calibers, I know that for a fact & am willing to bet that it happens more with the lessor calibers than the 50's, so there you go.

nomosendero · « **Reply #29 on:** January 18, 2007, 02:24:50 PM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on January 18, 2007, 01:01:58 PM

Quote from: NONYA on January 18, 2007, 10:01:00 AM
they dont lug them into the woods,they drive them around until they can put them on a portable shooting bench they carry in the back of the truck.Cant you see how detrimental this style of "hunting" can be to our sport?

Just how many people are doing it? I have never actually seen anyone with a 50 BMG out hunting, nor have I heard of anyone doing it, other than on the Internet.

You need to come to Delaware, anyone can hunt groundhogs with any rifle. If I want to shoot them with a 458 WM or a 50 BMG it is legal. But then again, I have never seen anyone do it or heard of anyone doing it.

But still, I support if someone wanted to do it. Sorry but I am for gun rights, ALL OF THEM. And if it is legal to hunt with one, who are we to criticize?

I guess we just do not agree on this one.

Redhawk, I agree!!

I am not saying it doesn't happen, & I know it does, but widespread, nay. I have hunted out West a good deal & it has not happened around me, nor even mentioned by the ranchers & guides that I have met out there.

There are pockets of abuse here and there in many forms. Some clubs (not many around here any more) still consist of drunks who should not be there. But I don't think this means that alcohol should be banned because of a few idiots. Misbehavior by a few does not translate to restricting me & you, sorry. I KNOW where all of this will go.

It seems to me that class envy is as big a factor in this discussion as the weapon itself by the comments that are made every time it comes up. PITY.