45-70 and Remingtons 300 JHP

[Sverre A.]

Any experience out there with Remington`s cheap 300 JHP for "big game" included moose?
Fps, penetration, distance etc.

[Lone Star]

Do you mean North American moose or European moose?  For the larger NA variety the 300-grain Remington is probably too soft - it is designed as a deer bullet afterall.  Better is the Nosler 300 Partition or the Hornady 350 RN; I used the latter at 2050 fps to shoot a nice 9.5-foot Baranof Island brownie with one shot with complete penetration after breaking one shoulder.


.

[Sverre A.]

 



I thought I should use the cheap Remington`s for exersice and european red stags and moose.

For bigger game - I will use hardcast.

[EsoxLucius]

For european "elk" try the inexpensive 405 grain Remington JSP instead.

Marlin 1895 45-70
405 grain Remington JSP seated to 2.55" and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die
49 grains H322 START
55 grains H322 compressed MAXIMUM
MAXIMUM yields 1950 fps from a 22" barrel, approximately 40,000 CUP, exceeds CIP 45-70 pressure standard

52.5 grains of H4198 would be about at the CIP maximum of 210 MPa or 30457.9 PSI for about 1876 fps.

45-70 Marlin 1895
400 grain Speer 2.547" COL
Remington brass, 2.098" trim
49.7 grains of Vihtavuori N130 for about 1834 fps
52.5 grains of Vihtavuori N133 for about 1883 fps
54.3 grains of Vihtavuori N530 for about 1864 fps
All CIP compliant.

[tobster]

Believe it or not , I have found the Remingtons to be too soft for whitetail when loaded to around 1800 fps. Can't imagine anything good happeneing on bigger game with these bullets.

[Sverre A.]

I shot 3 red stags this season with the 300 gr./1700 fps - and they performed like I was hoping for (in and out, and expanded "normal")
Shooting-distances: 50 - 100 yds.

 

[reloading_rich]

I have used the Remington 300 grain bullet in my 14 inch Contender for quite a while I have had excellent success with it chronographed at 1950 fps.  I have shot Hogs, Rams, Whitetail and even a Buffalo with it.  The bullet performed flawlessly on the Buffalo with a one shot kill at 52 yards, complete pass through both lungs and a virtual spay of blood that reached up to 8 feet high on the surrounding trees where the beast fell over dead.  It only took around 8/9 steps before expiring.

[HL]

Not to start an argument, but if you are getting 1950fps with 300gr jacketed in a 14" contender, you definitely are not using trapdoor loads. You may want to back off a little before your frame gets ruined or worse.  A hard cast bullet may approach those velocities in a 14" barrel, but not a jacketed bullet.

[EsoxLucius]

The Hodgdon maximum 45-70 300 grain jacketed bullet H4198 load for the Springfield Trapdoor and starting H4198 300 grain jacketed bullet load for the Marlin 1895 45-70 both achieve 2221 fps in a 24" barrel and 27,600 CUP.  If one assumes about 26 fps per inch of barrel (borne out by my and other's tests) then that load would be about 1960 fps in a 14" barrel.  So, his load could very well be considered a Trapdoor load and safe for the Contender depending on how he arrived at it.

[Lone Star]

Wait a minute guys - how much pressure has a "Trapdoor load"?

Hornady - 25,000 cup
Speer -  21,000 cup
Lyman - 18,000 cup

Hodgdon lists maximum loads in the 15" Encore with 300-grain bullet at 2076 fps @ 27,600 cup.  Is this a "Trapdoor load"?  Probably not. 

Other maximum 14" pistol loads:
Lyman - 300 @ 1685 fps
Sierra - 300@1700 fps
Hornady - 300 @ 1600 fps

IMO a 300 @ 1950 fps in a 14" Contender is too much for the frame....but it's  your handgun. 


.

[EsoxLucius]

Perhaps I would have been more accurate saying a SAAMI compliant load rather than a Trapdoor load.

The Contender pistol is chambered for the 44 Remington Magnum which has a SAAMI pressure specification of 36,000 psi.  The Contender rifle comes in the 375 JDJ which is routinely loaded to 40,000 psi.

And you are trying to convince us that loading the 45-70 at 28,000 psi is going to hurt a Thompson Contender pistol?  If one has a 44 Rem Mag  Contender pistol I believe they can interchange the barrel with another Contender pistol barrel.  So, the Contender pistol frame will somehow disintegrate shooting 28,000 psi 45-70 loads with the 45-70 Contender barrel, when previously it was digesting 36,000 psi 44 Rem Mag loads with the 44 Rem Mag barrel without incident?

I understand being cautious, but not being irrational.

[logger]

I shot 3 deer this season with the Rem. 300 JHP. Two fell within 60 yards but no exit wound and no blood (120 lbs doe and 190 lbs 8 pt). The third was a 8 pt that I did not find any sign of a hit. I found the animal a week later. For this reason I am looking for a new bullet for next year. One with better penetration and ultimately good blood trails.

[Lone Star]

I shot 3 deer this season with the Rem. 300 JHP....

What load were you using - what was the muzzle velocity?  That will help determine how well that bullet penetrates.



.

[AtlLaw]

I hunted one season with the Rem 300 gr. JHP @1750 +/- fps.  Killed one deer with it.  The animal died quickly but there was no exit on a quartering toward me 35 yd shot.  The deer are small where I hunt.  The 300's just seem to soft to me and I have switched to the Rem 405's.  I have also ordered some 350's Hornady's to try out.

[Ranger J]

I shot two does this year with Rem 300 Hps at about 60 yards.  Bullets were loaded at about 2100 fps and both bullets made complete in and out with exit wound being way too large to suite me.  Largest doe fell where shot smaller one made maybe 20 feet.  I will probably reduce speed to trapdoor level next year.

RJ

[AtlLaw]

<snip> I will probably reduce speed to trapdoor level next year.

That was my thought also when I load up the rest of my 300 grainers.  And I darn sure wouldn't hesitate to hunt with them loaded to 1300 fps =/-