Author Topic: Powerbelt (Read 3354 times)

simonkenton · « **on:** January 11, 2007, 01:52:38 PM »

I have a guy on another forum who is complaining about poor performance from the 250 gr Powerbelt. Said it blew up on a deer's shoulder and it got away.
Isn't there a larger Powerbelt that gives good performance?
I am a Savage guy and we can't shoot them so I am ill informed on this slug.

slave · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2007, 02:18:11 PM »

If the deer got away how can one be sure the bullet blew up or hit any specific spot?

flintlock · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2007, 02:52:36 PM »

Simon...Some of the prettiest mushrooms I have ever seen have come from PowerBelts...And some of the deadest deer (if that's possible

)...I don't use them, but my brother and a couple of buddies do...Frankly, I'm the kind of guy that swabs between shots, so if I'm using an inline, I prefer to shoot a more aerodynamic bullet and one in a sabot....Most guys use PowerBelts "Because they load easy" and "I can reload faster, without swabbing"...With a muzzleloader, forget the second shot, period.

What alot of shooters do not understand about muzzleloading is that you are handloading, which means that you need to match the projectile, animal hunted and powder charge (impact velocity) to the area you are hunting...And...many hunters don't know the proper hold on a deer at different animals..."I hit it in the shoulder"...But, they aren't sure where it was standing, which way it ran, etc.
He might of hit it in the shoulder...But that didn't mean he held properly to get it into the vitals, a deer can live with only one shoulder, they can't with a hole in both lungs...

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2007, 03:33:24 PM »

I have to agree with slave, if the deer was not recovered, how did he know the bullet blew up???

Oldsnow · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2007, 04:37:20 PM »

Flintlock I like the way you think, good post.
Slave you are wright with out the deer, you can't say were it was hit.
Thank guys Oldsnow

simonkenton · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2007, 11:59:23 PM »

I have read numerous complaints about poor performance by the small Powerbelts, some of it on this forum. People talk about the small Powerbelts, I believe it is the hollow point, blowing up and not penetrating. I am surprised you guys are not aware of this problem.
Here is a c and p of this post from the other forum:

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I have been trying to keep up on bullet technology but there are so many new bullets out there to use/try a guy could go broke before he finds one that holds a group and performs well on big game.

I had previously use a saboted 295gr barnes Expander bullet. I found that they where a bear to load in My T/C Encore and also in my uncle's blackdiamond. they paterned fine. we never had the chance to shoot anything with them.

Then came along the PB, we thought we'd giv'em a try. We finally settled on the 250PB. they loaded easily held a 1" patern @150yds consistantly.

So My uncle and I where hunting deer in utah both of our guns where set up the same. 2-50gr 777 pellets behind a 250 PB. First morning out im sneeking through the pines and come around a tree and there is a buck standing about 80yds away. it was a quartering broadside shot. i pull the trigger heard the bullet whomp! him. He vanished in the smoke. as the cloud lifted so did the buck. he jumped to his feet bewilderd as to what had just knocked him off his feet and bolted off into never see again land. I reloaded and then went to where he had stood/fell only to find a little hair no blood nothing i tried to track him for about an hour didn't even see another piece of hair. WTH

two days later we where bouncing down a dirt road in the truck and around a corner we came and off to the left side of the road about 100yds out, there were 3 deer one of them had horns. uncle jumps out pulls the trigger. and had i not seen it i wouldn't have belived it. he hit that deer right in the left front shoulder and it looked like he had been shot with a shootgun hair,dust,and crap lifted off the buck. he bolts off into the tree's. same thing we go to where the buck had stood only to find hair. no blood to track nothing. now i know there is something going on. are the bullets traveling to fast at that distance that they exploding on impacted

last day of the hunt, unlce finally hits one @120yds it ran another 100yds before laying down under a tree only to die bye unlce's skining knife. while skining the deer out we found the bullet had barely penetrated the hide and then exploded like a hand grenade. What A POS. bullet.

So as you can see im off the PB wagon and Back to square 1 ANYONE have suggestions,

-Barnes has new splitfire bullets, are they easier to load?

-T/C has their shockwave bullet with "superglide" sabots.

I just want a bullet that is easier to load than the Barnes expander was, and before i go droping a 100bucks on two or three different kinds of sabot/bullet
I want know what you all have experimented with and what seems to be somewhat easy to load. and also performs well on Big game. Because the Power Belt sure didnt do the job. great for plinking and targets bad for hunting big game.

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I know, this guy is a rookie, and his main determination of which slug he will hunt with is how easily it loads. As an experienced muzzleloader guy, I do not determine my hunting loads in this fashion.
Neverless, he got poor performance from the Powerbelt. Maybe someone who is familiar with this problem will weigh in.

slave · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2007, 01:32:10 AM »

I just can not weigh in on the pb from a performance standpoint. I have never had a ML that would group them well enough for me to consider droping the hammer on game with one. So I have limited experence with them. I seen two taken this year with the bullet in the post. Both wer on top of 100gr of RS and both resulted in a nice long dirt nap and back straps in the pan. I seen no issue with the slug in those two cases.

flintlock · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2007, 05:15:44 AM »

Simon...I have heard of the problem...On the internet...I have seen different on the deer that I have skinned...My brother and buddy use the 295s...Not the 250s...They both use 100 grains of Pyrodex...I don't care for the PowerBelt, just because there are better bullets out there for inlines...Some even think that a round ball isn't enough for deer...I know better...

If this guy is having problems and lacks confidence, he needs to change bullets...I shoot the 250 Shockwaves over 90 grains of Pyrodex in my Knight....I'm happy with it, have killed 8 deer with, some think its too hard....I like it because my gun likes it and I am comfortable out to 150 yards with this loading...I have also used the 300 gr Barnes copper and the 300 gr Hornady XTP...My reason for using the Shockwave is how flat it shoots, I have compaired with the others, including the PowerBelt and the Shockwave is superior....If my shots were all within 100 yards, I would go with the Barnes or the Hornady...They expand better than the Shockwave, in my experience...

Alot of guys want to try one bullet, go to the range one afternoon and sightin and then hunt the next day....They would be much better prepaired if they started shooting now, after deer season and try different bullets, sabots, powder etc....So they would be more prepaired next season....
Frankly some of these guys can't be helped...They have to learn for themselves...

elkstalkr · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2007, 11:09:14 AM »

Out of 3 guns I have had nothing but poor performance on game with powerbelts.

They shoot and load GREAT. Unfortunately it stops there, at least for me and many others I have talked to.

Poor penetration and bullets fragmenting. Its no suprise on this forum, I am not a fan of powerboobs.

poncaguy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 12, 2007, 01:41:19 PM »

I get one shot flops with 295's and 348 grian PB's when I use them..................no blowups...........

1marty · « **Reply #10 on:** January 12, 2007, 03:11:06 PM »

I only shoot in my omega 2 777's with PB 295 or 348. I never had a problem; they are extremely accurate and all the deer see is the ground coming up. didn't like the lighter loads since I found they never held zero.
I'm wondering if the deer are now wearing body armor?

slave · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2007, 12:00:37 PM »

And now we know they are both perfect and worthless.

wgr · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2007, 04:07:41 PM »

shot one deer with a pb got a good hit but the bullet blew up had to track the deer did find it . i still wanted something that would load easy and hit hard so i bought a mold for a 50cal paper patch bullet size it to .495 paper patch it and i have a 400 grain lead slug that will load very easy can get 3 to 4 good shots befor swabing can maybe shoot 100 of these for the price of 16 pb and deer dont like them they will flat destory the heart lung cavity just my ten cent worth

cam69conv · « **Reply #13 on:** January 14, 2007, 05:42:39 PM »

This will sound strange, But The prob I had was out of the Tipped one. It blew up on the shoulder of a 160 pound live weight Doe. I was lucky as it knocked her senseless long enough for me to get a reload and follow up into her neck. The shot was at 64 yards. Load was the 250 Tipped PB on top of 3 t777 pellets. In recovery the bullet had blown all to hell on the shoulder. I thought ok Ill try the Hollow pointed ones. 220 pound live weight buck at 82 yards...Calibre hole in...FIST OUT..Was a slightly quartering to me shot hitting square on shoulder and exiting 2nd rib offside. Weapon was a CVA Optima. I now have a TC Pro hunter and use the TC shockwaves with 120 grains loose t777. Sub MOA tack driving machine and Ill let ya know how it holds up to a Bison soon

and a couple pigs

... I was actually shocked thet the HP did better than the Tipped...Me no know me just work here

slave · « **Reply #14 on:** January 15, 2007, 12:32:18 AM »

This is the kind of thread that drives us all crazy. I think its time to do some testing. I just got a digital cam and posted my first pics. I have good scales to check weight retention.

If someone would recomend a back stop and distance for destructive testing purpose that we could agree on, I would glady test the 250gr Shockwave bounded, 300 gr Shockwaves, some Barnes xpb I have used and two types of PB at 90gr and 120gr levels.

I do not use PB so I am not going to buy more than two packs just to go out and shot them into blocks or something like that.

What do you all think? Want to put this one to bed?

cam69conv · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2007, 04:23:00 AM »

I personally found that a Shoulder Bone from a Pig Wrapped in a couple layers of commercial style carpet backed with 12 to 17 inches of ballistic gel works great and not that expencive for testing penetration...An also cheaper method is wet newspaper compressed into a wooden frame. Stack it...Pack it...Wet it. The wet paper method isnt worth beans though for testing physical destruction. But it is great for penetration comparisons.

flintlock · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2007, 09:48:05 AM »

Ok guys, here's how a PowerBelt works...First the plastic skirt just keeps the bullet from falling out of the barrel...A PowerBelt is made of soft lead, when you fire the gun it "squats" or expands to engage the rifling of the barrel....This is why the lead is soft, so it can engage the rifling...because of this they are relatively "soft"....So if you push them too fast (and 150 grains of powder is too fast) they can mushroom violently or "blow up" upon contact...So you need to match the bullet to the powder charge or go to a heavier bullet to slow down the velocity....

If you would go to a 295 or a 348 and use 80-100 grains of Pyrodex you will not see the problems with the bullets blowing up on shoulders...

poncaguy · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2007, 06:21:51 AM »

If ur going to use 3 777 or 120 grains loose and Powerbelts, use the 338-348 grain Powerbelts. Only use 2 pellets with the lighter Powerbelts. I have never had a Powerbelt fail me, usually go clear through or just under skin on far side on deer. I always shoot for the heart- lung shot.

slave · « **Reply #18 on:** January 16, 2007, 06:47:23 AM »

poncaguy,

What should we use as a back stop to simulate thick bone. I mean the objective is to see if a PB or specific type of PB is more likely to come apart on contact with Bone than a Shock wave or X bullet. I do not have a stock pile of Bone to shoot at. I would think I need a material that I could get in a 2' x 2' sheet. This way I would not need to re-sight my Encore with the changes in distance, charge and bullet.

poncaguy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 16, 2007, 06:59:11 AM »

Good question............aluminum?

flintlock · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2007, 07:28:59 AM »

Try 2 x 4s...Back in the 70s when I bought my .45 flinter I worked up a load with 75grs FFF...I made a backstop of 2 x 4s and backed off to 75 yards...The .440 ball went through, so I assumed it would work on deer...The first doe I killed with that gun was about 60 yards away...I hit her in the left shoulder, the ball went through both shoulders, the spine and ended up under the hide on the far side...She dropped.

Biff Mayhem · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2007, 08:42:57 AM »

Quote from: elkstalkr on January 12, 2007, 11:09:14 AM

Out of 3 guns I have had nothing but poor performance on game with powerbelts.

They shoot and load GREAT. Unfortunately it stops there, at least for me and many others I have talked to.

Poor penetration and bullets fragmenting. Its no suprise on this forum, I am not a fan of powerboobs.

Avoid the Powerbelts under 348 grain for best success. Avoid lead Powerbelts under 405 grains. Do not overspeed the copper bullet. The best Powertbelt expansion I've seen has been on bullets driven with only 70-80 grains of blackpowder equivalent..

wgr · « **Reply #22 on:** January 18, 2007, 03:32:23 PM »

i agree with flintlock people trying to get to much out of a pure led bullet. i believe that you can take a 375grain maxie and have a better bullet. for sure they wont shatter on impact are on bone and you still have a 150yard bullet with 90grains of 2f goex
are you might try 80/85 grains of 3f get alittle more bump that way

VolFan9183 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 18, 2007, 03:45:55 PM »

This was the first year I tried Powerbelts...3 shots later, here are the results:

1. Cabelas Hawken, 85 gr loose Pyrodex, 295 gr Aerotip- 10 yard shot, contacted bone, complete pass-thru, dead buck

2. Winchester Apex, 130 gr Pyrodex pellets, 338 gr Platinum- 150 yard shot, contacted bone, complete pass-thru, dead buck

3. Winchester Apex, 130 gr Pyrodex pellets, 338 gr Platinum- 10 yard shot, contacted bone, complete pass-thru, dead doe

Maybe I was just lucky, but I'm satisfied so far. Like others have said, go with a heavy bullet for the velocity you are shooting, and I would think you'll be OK.

dougp · « **Reply #24 on:** January 19, 2007, 12:03:57 AM »

Powerbelts are terrible, I have recovered 3 in the last 2 years that were nothing but a flat disc about the thickness of a penny. They always kill deer if you put the shot in the right spot, but poor wound channel and NO BLOOD. New bullet for me next year.

simonkenton · « **Reply #25 on:** January 19, 2007, 01:00:00 AM »

use the TC shockwaves with 120 grains loose t777. Sub MOA tack driving machine and Ill let ya know how it holds up to a Bison soon Grin and a couple pigs Wink...

Over on the Savage forum a few years ago there was a story with photos of a guy who killed a 1,200 pound buffalo with the 250 SST. The bullet went through the shoulder bone and into the heart.
Now, he was driving the bullet at 2,500 fps with smokeless powder.

Wolfhound · « **Reply #26 on:** January 19, 2007, 01:46:51 AM »

Quote from: dougp on January 19, 2007, 12:03:57 AM

Powerbelts are terrible, I have recovered 3 in the last 2 years that were nothing but a flat disc about the thickness of a penny. They always kill deer if you put the shot in the right spot, but poor wound channel and NO BLOOD. New bullet for me next year.

Try the 444's.

wgr · « **Reply #27 on:** January 19, 2007, 01:43:12 PM »

the pb depends on the platic disk to help seal the bore you try and send them down range too fast and they will get gas blow by just like a mine ball the old 58cal minines were shot with 80 grain charge and killed folks out to 300yards put 90 are 1000 grains under it and you cant hit the inside of your house pb r the same but cant be pushed at the speeds some like slow them down and u will see a big diff

wgr · « **Reply #28 on:** January 19, 2007, 01:44:21 PM »

deleat that 90 to 1000 grain charge it should say 90 to 100

jim huntington · « **Reply #29 on:** April 27, 2007, 04:36:03 PM »

I shoot the 295 gr. pb with two 50gr. pellets. The two deer I shot with went down like right now! And didnt get back up. I like the power belts for there ease of loading and they are accurate. I tried sabots one time and found them hard to load. The first sabot went down the barrel ok. The second went down hard. And the third, forget it.