Author Topic: Idaho has changed ML rules  (Read 2177 times)

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Offline sabotloader

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Idaho has changed ML rules
« on: January 12, 2007, 06:14:06 PM »
This caught me and most others by total surprise... I guess it just shows the power of the loud and persistent...

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/apps/releases/view.cfm?NewsID=3662

If you are from Idaho e-mail bcompton@idfg.idaho.gov and voice your opinions...

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - they are a blast....

Offline Bullseye

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2007, 05:35:45 AM »
If I lived there I would sure be wishing that I had not sold my Renegade when I bought my Encore!!!

Hope this does not turn into a nation wide trend.

Offline toytruck

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2007, 05:37:44 AM »
I'm glad they are out there and not in Virginia!!! ;)
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Offline mangulator

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2007, 07:19:06 AM »
Well, guess we better hold on to the sidelock while longer, you never know!

Offline toytruck

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2007, 08:39:24 AM »
One of the reasons I kept the Renegade .54 just never know.....
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Offline Wolfhound

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2007, 10:59:21 AM »
I'd quit hunting if that happened here. Unlike most states the only muzzleloaders legal in the muzzleloader season here are the same ones legal in the firearm season. Since I have no desire to go back to a slug gun or use a sidelock deer hunting I'd just quit.

Offline slave

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2007, 03:01:04 PM »
Thats a shame.
keep your powder dry !!!

Offline Biff Mayhem

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2007, 04:28:32 PM »
Real strange group of fellas runing the hunting and game departments over there.  Thankfully, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois and Indiana are not that restrictive.
Keep that ML smokin'
Dave

Offline Biff_Mayhem

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2007, 04:58:13 PM »
Real strange group of fellas runing the hunting and game departments over there.  Thankfully, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois and Indiana are not that restrictive.

Who is this imposter "Biff Mayhem" and why did he steal my moniker?

Signed,

The Real Biff Mayhem

Offline Two Bears

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2007, 05:58:09 PM »
Well sorry guys and gals, I think that it is great.
I also wish that they would do it in Minnesota too, Don't get me wrong as I really enjoy hunting with my inlines ( I have owned it seems a truck load of them) and currently use an Encore 209X50, But also have and hunt with a flintlock and have a couple of cap lock rifles as well.

In Minnesota you can use the muzzleloaders in the firearm seasons as well as the muzzleloader season which has now put as many "gun hunters" now hunting the muzzleloader season that it is VERY over crowded now on both private as well as public lands. Since the seasons are so liberal more are getting into muzzleloader hunting to extend the opportunity to kill MORE deer.

People are not being able to hunt lands that they always used to hunt because the gun hunters are now hunting with the inlines which keeps a lot of land teid up, but if they no longer allowed inlines in the muzzleloader season things would balance back out as most might not want to use a flintlock or a caplock rifle.

Like I said before I do use inlines too and like them but just wish that the muzzleloader season in minnesota would be just for the primitive rifles like the flintlock and cap lock rifles and allow the use of inlines for the firearm seasons that are there.
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Offline slave

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2007, 01:39:18 AM »
Well sorry guys and gals, I think that it is great.
I also wish that they would do it in Minnesota too, Don't get me wrong as I really enjoy hunting with my inlines ( I have owned it seems a truck load of them) and currently use an Encore 209X50, But also have and hunt with a flintlock and have a couple of cap lock rifles as well.

In Minnesota you can use the muzzleloaders in the firearm seasons as well as the muzzleloader season which has now put as many "gun hunters" now hunting the muzzleloader season that it is VERY over crowded now on both private as well as public lands. Since the seasons are so liberal more are getting into muzzleloader hunting to extend the opportunity to kill MORE deer.

People are not being able to hunt lands that they always used to hunt because the gun hunters are now hunting with the inlines which keeps a lot of land teid up, but if they no longer allowed inlines in the muzzleloader season things would balance back out as most might not want to use a flintlock or a caplock rifle.

Like I said before I do use inlines too and like them but just wish that the muzzleloader season in minnesota would be just for the primitive rifles like the flintlock and cap lock rifles and allow the use of inlines for the firearm seasons that are there.

I wondered when it would be said. Ten years ago I seen groups of bow hunters request ODNR ban the CROSSBOW for use in the state wide bow season. They are not bows and should only be permited in the gun season. The reason, a new group of competition for my spot and my buck. In 06 I am glad to say I seen crossbows in the field in Ohio and in 07 I plan on buying one so my ten year old can bow hunt. He can not draw minimum weight required with a long bow yet.

I respect the departments who manage based on the heard size and local capacity. Place only the necessary restrictions in effect so we can all enjoy a days hunt and live to hunt another day. Have youth programs in place to insure future voters are hunters as well.    

keep your powder dry !!!

Offline Biff Mayhem

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2007, 05:04:55 AM »

Who is this imposter "Biff Mayhem" and why did he steal my moniker?

Signed,
The Real Biff Mayhem

A glitch in the system that needs addressing.

Better get out your screen names book again - then pick another name here.

Keep that ML smokin'
Dave

Offline toytruck

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2007, 05:25:35 AM »
I was looking at some "BlackPowder Hunting" magazines I had back in the early 90's and the same argument was going on back then.  It was said then and still applys that a inline and traditional rifle still load from the front end the only difference is the way the flame gets to the powder.  If you take the scope off the inline you have the same limitations as the trad rifles...end of story.  Why people can't understand that is beyond me? ::)
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Offline gun_dog

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2007, 05:30:47 AM »
My opinion is that this change is directly related to the knight lawsuit. I don't like hunting with the crowds of people that throng to the woods in modern fire arm season. I have been glassed in a scope too many times. I seems that a whole lot of other people have been thinking the same thing. When I originally quit modern I went archery. I spent countless hours shooting, joined a club, did 3d shoots to learn to judge distance, and became proficient. Not everyone is willing to do that. I started muzzleloading because a friend wanted to do it. Turns out I really enjoyed the whole experience. The problem is that due to the crowds of people now taking up the sport, the seasons are not as generous as they used to be. The late season crowded a bunch of people in a very small area and really was not the type of hunting I like.  I quess what I am trying to say is it is difficult to balance all of the competing factors. If it is too easy to become proficient and too many days are allowed in the field then you may over harvest. If it is too difficult you might have hunters decide its just not worth it anymore. We need hunters! We need animals. We need quality hunting experiences. That does not even get into the spintering off of different hunter groups instead of standing together to fight for everyones right to hunt.
It is pretty complicated and I don't have the answers.

Offline toytruck

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2007, 06:11:07 AM »
I think the Virginia DGIF is doing a good job for one state, of course this is where I live and hunt.  In last two years they have started allowing crossbows and last year smokeless powder in muzzleloaders designed for it.  Scopes have been allowed since the mid 90's, they weren't allowed when the first muzzleloading seasons began.

Just tooting my own state, sorry!! ;D
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Offline Bullseye

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2007, 07:47:06 AM »
This is just my opinion based on where I hunt in Indiana.

The gun season is 2 weeks (3 weekends)  long, weapons are shotgun, handgun and muzzleloaders.  First weekend you hear a lot of shots.  Second weekend a lot less and the 3rd hardly any.  The check stations are the same way, waiting in lines the first weekend and then you rarely see anyone,

Then ML comes in for 2 weeks (3 weekends) long.  You hardly hear any shots any of the three weekends.  Very little traffic on the gravel roads that suddenly become highways during the first weekend of gun season.

The DNR sent out a survey this year and it showed that only 50% of the hunters shoot a deer.  Only about 17% of the hunters that are succesful shoot more than one deer and only like 3% shoot more than 2.  I generally shoot 2-3 deer.  I keep going because I just like to be outdoors and hunt and if I get more deer than I need I give them people I know that want them.

The point I am trying to make is that I do not see where using more modern ML increases the amount of hunters in my area.  The bottom line from the data I see in this state is that most hunters go out one weekend and then call it quits, either because they are not that serious of hunters or because they shoot a deer.  If the modern ML were bringing hunters to the woods in large numbers, I think I would hear more than 1 or 2 shots per day during the ML season.

Again this is just my opinion based on where I hunt and from numbers reported by the DNR.


Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2007, 08:06:41 AM »
I was looking at some "BlackPowder Hunting" magazines I had back in the early 90's and the same argument was going on back then.  It was said then and still applys that a inline and traditional rifle still load from the front end the only difference is the way the flame gets to the powder.  If you take the scope off the inline you have the same limitations as the trad rifles...end of story.  Why people can't understand that is beyond me? ::)

I agree with your post.  ;D
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Offline toytruck

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2007, 08:42:41 AM »
Thankyou!! 8)
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Offline SDS-GEN

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2007, 08:49:33 AM »
Toytruck makes a good point.  Instead of such tight restrictions perhaps Idaho should incorporate rules like Colorado has; no scopes, no sabots, no pelleted powder, no smokeless powder.  It seems that these restrictions effectively limit the range of a muzzleloader, which in my thinking is in the interest of the "spirit of the muzzleloader season".  Here in Illinois the ML season is a joke, any kind of gun you want as long as it loads from the muzzle, and the season is tacked on as an afterthought one week after firearms season, when all the deer are dead or paranoid from being shot at.

Offline flintlock

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2007, 10:40:29 AM »
Sounds good to me...Most hunters have forgotten, the ML seasons were first brought about because of the efforts of the NMLRA in an attempt to help the modern hunters to learn how to use the firearms that our ancesters used to fight in the Revolutionary War...

Toytruck...you are wrong about taking the scope off an inline and my flinter shooting like an inline...With a .012 deep rifling depth, and a 1-72 twist rate, no way will my flinter group a  sabot/bullet...Its the bullet that give you a better coefficient over the round ball that my flinter is made for....Its the barrel that determines what projectile you need to shoot...

Online Graybeard

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2007, 10:52:23 AM »
Real strange group of fellas runing the hunting and game departments over there.  Thankfully, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois and Indiana are not that restrictive.

Who is this imposter "Biff Mayhem" and why did he steal my moniker?

Signed,

The Real Biff Mayhem

If you want to hang around here I suggest you get an attitude adjustment real soon. Biff has been here since May of last year. You've just now showed up. You registered in August as Biff_Mayhem.

If you wish to continue here that's fine but he got here first and I seriously doubt you are the ONLY Biff Mayhem in the world.


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Offline toytruck

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2007, 11:44:14 AM »
Sounds good to me...Most hunters have forgotten, the ML seasons were first brought about because of the efforts of the NMLRA in an attempt to help the modern hunters to learn how to use the firearms that our ancesters used to fight in the Revolutionary War...

Toytruck...you are wrong about taking the scope off an inline and my flinter shooting like an inline...With a .012 deep rifling depth, and a 1-72 twist rate, no way will my flinter group a  sabot/bullet...Its the bullet that give you a better coefficient over the round ball that my flinter is made for....Its the barrel that determines what projectile you need to shoot...

I hope we have improved some since the Revolutionary War!!  If you want to shoot round balls with a flinter thats your choice.  If I want to shoot a inline with conicals thats my choice. (By the way I'm still not 100% sold on pistol/saboted bullets as compaired to pure lead conicals).  I don't intend to tell you what to shoot in rifles or projectiles and you don't have the right to tell me the same, thats what makes this country so great....freedom to choose!!

I do agree the barrel is the factor that determines the most accurate projectile you are right about that, I would hope we are on the same page though to shoot the best projectile we possibly can to make a clean quick kill on deer sized game.
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Offline Biff_Mayhem

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2007, 01:41:44 PM »
Quote
If you want to hang around here I suggest you get an attitude adjustment real soon. Biff has been here since May of last year. You've just now showed up. You registered in August as Biff_Mayhem.

If you wish to continue here that's fine but he got here first and I seriously doubt you are the ONLY Biff Mayhem in the world.

Lighten up Billy Boy. Sheesh. I'll bet you a dollar he stole the name.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2007, 02:40:16 PM »
Quote
If you want to hang around here I suggest you get an attitude adjustment real soon. Biff has been here since May of last year. You've just now showed up. You registered in August as Biff_Mayhem.

If you wish to continue here that's fine but he got here first and I seriously doubt you are the ONLY Biff Mayhem in the world.

Lighten up Billy Boy. Sheesh. I'll bet you a dollar he stole the name.

Graybeard I think he has already outstayed his welcome.  It is apparent he is just here to bush buttons.
Biff_Mayhem I will be removing both of your posts if GB doesn't get rid of you all together.
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Offline Biff_Mayhem

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2007, 02:49:54 PM »

Graybeard I think he has already outstayed his welcome.  It is apparent he is just here to bush buttons.
Biff_Mayhem I will be removing both of your posts if GB doesn't get rid of you all together.

Actually I'm not here to "bush" buttons. I made what I thought was a mildly amusing post regarding someone using a moniker that I have been using on the internet for over 10 years (I've owned the domain name for 7 years). Apparently it wasn't well received and some people need to chill out (read: you). If you want to delete my posts then that's on you.

Offline wgr

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2007, 04:40:34 PM »
hey bullseye what part of indiana you in southern part here .  wile i do agree with most of what you said  and will not disgree.  i hunt with inlines  during the shootgun season   but when the second season comes around im  a hard core patch a ball hunter   but that just me. i dont even go to the woods near my house the first weekend  go to the next county lots of shooting to much for me  but as far as scopes go if you can hit better with one go for it i hate to find deer after season that could have been found . scopes on my inlines  peep sights on my side hammers if your close let me know i been using a paper patch bullet in my inlines loads like a power belt but hits alot harder

never to much gun

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2007, 02:20:43 AM »

Graybeard I think he has already outstayed his welcome.  It is apparent he is just here to bush buttons.
Biff_Mayhem I will be removing both of your posts if GB doesn't get rid of you all together.

Actually I'm not here to "bush" buttons. I made what I thought was a mildly amusing post regarding someone using a moniker that I have been using on the internet for over 10 years (I've owned the domain name for 7 years). Apparently it wasn't well received and some people need to chill out (read: you). If you want to delete my posts then that's on you.

Stick to the topic or leave!
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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Offline mangulator

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2007, 05:47:32 AM »
I think Idaho really needs to be educated on the issue of in-lines muzzleloaders. I wish some of the large manufactures of muzzleloaders would help educate state legislators instead of putting their money into hunting programs on the Outdoor Channels or putting money towards the big name hunters. There has been a decrease in mule deer number here in Utah and throughout the west. Some of the reasons for the decrease in numbers of mule deer, is drought, predation, poachers and loss of habitat. I believe it is not the in-line or other hunting methods that is decreasing deer numbers but  the loss of habitat and years of drought. For years there has been a cap placed on the number of hunters in Utah and still the mule deer numbers are suffering. If, you want to increase the number of deer you need to increase habitat. Through out the years homes, mining, fires, habitat, poaching and drought have been the major reasons for decrease deer numbers not hunting methods.   

Offline Bullseye

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2007, 02:52:25 PM »
wgr

I live just south of Indy.  I spend most of my weekends and hunt in Bedford down in the southern part of the state.  My last kid is a senior in high school.  If I can find a job down there next year, I plan on moving south.

Offline wgr

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Re: Idaho has changed ML rules
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2007, 04:44:42 PM »
bullseye   im all the way south  live in perry county  near derby  out in the sticks
never to much gun