Author Topic: Concerning the buying here and selling at ebay problem (Read 2935 times)

Graybeard · « **on:** January 13, 2007, 01:29:07 PM »

Guys I've been asked about this a couple times now. The first I really didn't understand what the member was trying to get across to me so just deleted the PMs. It's now been explained to me in detail and clearly.

I'm not sure if what he's doing violates the letter of my rules or not but I guess it wasn't really my intent when I wrote it. I was addressing folks using this site to buy/sell for profit as opposed to just to get rid of something they no longer want that was at one time held for personal use. But for sure what he is doing is "running a business" and "for profit" so maybe it does fall properly under the rules as written even tho technically it wasn't what I had in mind at the time.

Now I can kick him off either by deleting his account or by banning him. But to be honest I can't stop him from doing what he is doing. You don't even have to be logged in to read. Of course I could fix that so you do but do you really want that? That's not a rhetorical question, I'd really like to know if the members here would like the NEF classifieds to be read ONLY by GBO Members who are logged in. That we can do.

Back to the member in question. I can end his account or I can ban him by IP Address, user name or any of several means. But he can change any of them and likely might slip back in.

The ONLY real way to end what he is doing IF that's your intention is to put a thread up here telling who the person is and what he's doing that you don't like. Then ask that all not sell to him. Only you all are willing to with hold sales to him can you stop what he's doing.

I don't like it but honestly don't think it's within my power to end it. It is within yours if none of you will sell to him. In the end it's really up to you guys to police such matters yourself. If I use the rules all I can do is force him to pay to do business on the site or ban him and neither would in my opinion stop or control the problem as you guys see it.

pills · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2007, 01:37:22 PM »

Interesting problem. I know personally I have missed a few good deals and later see them turn outrageous on ebay.

My thought is if someone is buying here with the express intent to turn and put it on ebay for a profit they are running a business.

As for making logged in users the only ones able to see the classifieds I have no problem with that. At least until I act up and get banned.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2007, 01:42:08 PM »

That works for me, if anyone suspects someone of buying here with the sole purpose of reselling the barrel or whatever on ebay, don't sell to them, plain and simple.

Most of the other forums I vist require a member to be logged in to view the classifieds, I don't see that as a problem here and am in favor of it.

Now you draw a fine line, since many here have bought and sold barrels on ebay, if someone just happens to buy a barrel and they can't fit it to their frame, they might offer it for sale here for the same price they paid for it and make someone else a good deal on it, or they may choose to sell it on ebay to get all of their money back, the choice should be ours to make, but to buy here and sell on ebay just for the profit, isn't right.

Tim

MSP Ret · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2007, 01:52:23 PM »

I like the suggestion of GB and pills and Quicks agreement with it, if we all know a member is repeatedly buying barrels here simply to sell for them on E-bay for profit, we the sellers can just ignore his bids and sell to the next member, the guy who has been looking for that barrel, needs that barrel, or wants it for his child or grandchild, not to turn a few dollar profit. That is wrong and is ruining this site for all. I see no problem, with a member occaisionally selling an item on E-bay and I have sold a few golf caps on E-bay myself a couple of years ago, but I have never sold a barrel or stock set there, but again an occaisional sale there when it could not be sold here for a reasonable price is OK with me. I would rather get a couple of bucks less and swap(preferred) or sell them within our little family. I say just don't sell to him. If you want to limit access to view items to members I see no problem with that but don't really know if that will solve the problem, the porblem is one guy, just don't sell to him any more....<><....

And to you GB, thanks for being on top of this....

pills · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2007, 01:56:18 PM »

The only issue I can see arising is when new folks (which this site gets tons of) come in and sell and don't know the history of someone who may be abusing the good nature of the classifieds.

Also making lurkers who browse without registering become members may increase the member list. My friend who lurks but still hasnt registered may call me and gripe me out for that. Glad I am not an admin or moderator on this to have to make the decison.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2007, 02:33:01 PM »

This whole thing is turning to a can of worms , between guys buying here and selling on e-bay and guys posting on more than one forum with the same barrel or gun .

I for one do not have an awnser to the problem other than to just stay away from the trader forum , sure i may miss a deal but i will not miss all the headachs that go with it . $:-\$

JMHO

stimpy

MSP Ret · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2007, 03:34:13 PM »

Well Bill has given us the opportunity to police ourselves in this unfortunate matter, I think we can all do that and just not sell to someone who trys to hurt other members by running a business by repeatedly and purposfully buying barrels here to sell on E-bay for profit, a simple soloution, and it would not hurt to try it....<><....

cowboyup453 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2007, 03:44:08 PM »

I pretty much agree with all that has been said so far, but how do we get everybody to not sell to one person? What about new members? How would everybody know not to sell to this person?

I would think some people are wondering who here would do this.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2007, 03:50:19 PM »

Absolutely...MSP...What happened with your 3 barrel deal was a crock and if he was honest...it wouldn't be allowed to stand...

What a person does with his property is his business...However..one is intitaled to ask the buyer questions... Ask if before making any agreement if their intentions is to resell it elsewhere..and if it is or they refuse to answer publicly.....then you can refuse to sell it to him...and and continue the sale with out question to someone else...It's up to the seller to do this..If he doesn't...then it's up to everyone else to point this fact out to the seller...without a-lot of hoopla over it..If the person selling it doesn't care...then no one else should either...The last thing we need is to get into fights and arguments on selling and swapping barrels & stuff...

Mac

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2007, 03:57:08 PM »

To answer that question I'm not sure you really can. Each person is free to do what they want as long as it's within the rules. Some one who knows the person's real name can post it here, NOT the home address just the name and if you like add it to your sticky as a person you ask folks not to sell to for the reasons stated.

You cannot enforce that but can only ask folks to willingly agree.

As I said I just don't see a good way to stop him doing it and only you guys yourselves can control it and only by not selling your barrels to him. If you wish to do that it's fine and is perfectly legal and within my rules.

Limiting access to members only even if I ban him won't assure he doesn't get another IP address and come back under a new name and continue to read and contact people about barrels for sale here.

It's really a matter of you guys policing yourselves if that's what you want to do. You can just not sell to him and as many of you as don't sell to him are keeping that many barrels in your own little family group here. For those who just want to move the barrel and don't care who gets it there is really nothing we can do in those cases. I cannot in good conscience start telling any of you who you can or can't sell to. I don't think any of you would even want me to try to do that and I know I don't want it.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2007, 04:28:53 PM »

Good points GB and well said, so I guess many of us now know what to do, and what not to do. For anyone you does not, just ask. As is the hallmark of this site and this forum, this is where your questiions cheerfully get answered....<><....

acloco · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2007, 04:30:32 PM »

Seems to be one greedy person everywhere. Have to watch for the sharks, as there will always be one.

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2007, 05:59:22 PM »

mattparliament · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2007, 07:09:09 PM »

Wow, this is dumb. I have 0% doubt that I am a big contributor in this due to my current transaction. I've bought barrels here and sold them on ebay, there it is, I'm also a bonefied handi-holic.

I am not naive, my ebay auction (which I will not post a link which is against the rules) will end tomorrow, right now it is at about $240, I paid $100 for it here. I also use the same username here that I use on the bay. With that said, let's make things clear. I told the seller that he could do better on the bay, he replied that he knew but wanted the $$$ quickly(I'm sure moderators know this because it has become clear the PM's(perosanal messages) are not "personal" and this worries me. I bought it with the intentions of tossing it on the bay. It is doing wAAAAAAAAAy better than expected, but so what, the seller knew where it was going. Is this unjust against giving to a child or grandson as some would complain? I let it set on the forum for most of a week before I picked it up, fair chance or not?

More clarity. I've done this before. Awhile back I bought a beautiful 25-06 Ultra barrel a round that I wanted Soooooooooo badly, I couldn't make it work with my setups. I ebayed it with the seller/moderator's knowledge (Quick) and approval for a whopping profit of $20, Yay.

Let's see, before that I bought a 35 whelen barrel, dies, and brass. Beautiful, made some loads and gave it to one of my best friends for Christmas. He loves it. Business action, obviously....

Before that, a 243 barrel, tooooo nice, bought it on a whim because it was too nice of a deal. Again, didn't fit my gun or my huntin habbits, off to the bay and a profit was made, damn me.

So here it is, I've bought some barrels here and moved them on but I've waited before buying to give someone else who really wanted that setup an opportunity at the purchase. This gave many views of the sale offer. Here's what I don't understand (why is this a sticky?) the seller was paid the price he asked, bottom line, who watches the transaction and feels something is "wrong" is absurd. The seller was paid what he asked and is "happy".

I see where this started:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,108745.0.html MSP was fired up...

I have broken no rules, that's the other bottom line. My "pace" is nowhere near the greybeard "business" requirement. It's a shame that an ebay auction can provoke disarray in a great place like this, I love it here. Here we go, I feel that I've been a contributing member to this forum with relevant finformation in that I don't submit "trash" information and "fluff" posts. Search my name and you'll see that. If you want me to leave I will, no banning required, or if you don't want to sell to me, fine, my feelings won't be hurt but this issue is DUMB AND PETTY.

Honestly, if it upsets you I'll leave, no banning required, I won't post reply's on stuff for sale. Honestly guys it this a BIG DEAL? Please don't take me wrong, I LOVE this forum and the Handi's, if you want to kick me out, so be it, it is JUST AND INTERNET FORUM!

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2007, 07:16:51 PM »

Matt, I don't think that what you've described is what this threaf is about.

It's about buying here with the intent of selling for a profit on ebay; repeated ly to the point that it becomes an abuse of the classifieds; i.e. a business.

Picking up a barrel that has sat for a few days here, after advising the seller to try ebay, is not what's being discussed.

Busta · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2007, 08:35:07 PM »

Matt,

First of all, I don't have a problem with anyone buying something and later deciding to sell it, as long as it is within the rules of where he is either buying or selling.

Graybeard,

I don't have a clue who they are talking about, and personally don't care. I don't have a problem with anyone buying a barrel, or anything for that matter, and selling it somewheres else if THEY so choose. I think that some get so caught up in the drama of buying and selling, that they try to take ownership in something that they have no business worrying about.

I, for one am not going to tell someone what they can or can't do with something that they legally purchased, and I would expect the same thing in return. To set the record straight, I have never sold or bought anything on ebay (don't even have an account) or any other site other than Greybeards. I have purchased a stock set and a barrel here. I may end up selling the barrel because for what I intended to use it for, I would be better served with a smooth bore (short range open sighted cornfield slug gun) instead of rifled (high priced slugs). I have been thinking of listing the barrel and sending in my frame for a Tracker I, but the very reason I liked the NEF Classified (no bickering), is starting to get to dramatic for my tastes.

I usually check the NEF Classified daily, and miss some good deals that I would have liked, but I am NOT going to tell the person that bought the item what they can or cannot do with it. I totally respect your rules, and as you said yourself, you don't know if the person is breaking the word of your rules. I used to enjoy looking at the NEF Classified section, most sales go without a hitch, but the drama in a very few posts in there lately is sickining.

I understand that I may be shunned by some of the membership here for my comments, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em, no candy coating. If you are buying, buy. If you are selling, sell. If you are not buying or selling, get out of the way!

mt3030 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2007, 09:19:56 PM »

I have sold several items (guns, stocks, and barrels, etc.) here on GBO. And some of them were hard to find items. But I have never considered it my business to ask what the buyer was going to do with it. Not my business!! If I wanted top dollar I would of taken the time to open a sellers account on e-bay and listed it. But, this is a hobby for me. I don't have time to worry what the buyer is going to do with it. And I think this whole idea of worring if someone is making a buck off items they buy is way out of control. As long as GRAYBEARD decides that his rules are not being broken, so be it. Those complaining are being childish, and need to get a life and grow up.
If my post offends some, so be it. Go back and read the post by mattparliament. He stated it better then I can.

Stan in SC · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2007, 10:44:50 PM »

I can see both sides of this problem.I am afraid I must agree that we cannot dictate what use someone makes of anything they buy with their hard earned dollars.That is called Free Enterprise and it's what this country is built upon.GB has found no infraction of rules.This matter should be dropped here and now.
Members...handle it privately.You know how.Pass the word off of the forum.

Stan

shaner · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2007, 01:35:04 AM »

after i read all this i haveto agree with stan, but i wouldnt mind seeing the classifieds being limited to posters with say ?10 posts i see a lot of things come up for sale , and see 1 or 2 posts on their counter, then never to be seen again? as for the other problem maybe enough has been said here to slow down the so called problem , GB id let it simmer a while an see what happens, sometimes things heal themselves $:-\$ $:-\$

MSP Ret · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2007, 03:01:28 AM »

Mattparliment, Ooops!... it was not you anyone was speaking about buddy and no one here has any problem with you my friend, I am sorry for the fact you felt as if you were involved and apologise for any hurt feelings which may have resulted from these posts, I have sent you a PM also. Again buddy, you had nothing to do with this matter..Ooops!....<><....

Graybeard · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2007, 05:08:05 AM »

For the record the person this addresses has NOT made a post to the thread. In fact I don't think they've EVER made a post to any thread here other than on the NEF classifieds to buy items.

Now then as to this:

Quote

(I'm sure moderators know this because it has become clear the PM's(perosanal messages) are not "personal" and this worries me.

You just plain don't have a clue what you're talking about. Unless someone forwards a copy of a PM they received to me or one of the Mods then we have no way of seeing it. It is physically impossible with this software for anyone other than the sender and receiver to see PMs.

Long ago with a different software I did see a list of who had sent what to whom but no more. Now I have no clue who has sent PMs or to whom they have been sent.

You are way off base on this one.

Grizz_ · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2007, 05:39:31 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on January 13, 2007, 03:57:08 PM

To answer that question I'm not sure you really can. Each person is free to do what they want as long as it's within the rules. Some one who knows the person's real name can post it here, NOT the home address just the name and if you like add it to your sticky as a person you ask folks not to sell to for the reasons stated.

You cannot enforce that but can only ask folks to willingly agree.

As I said I just don't see a good way to stop him doing it and only you guys yourselves can control it and only by not selling your barrels to him. If you wish to do that it's fine and is perfectly legal and within my rules.

Limiting access to members only even if I ban him won't assure he doesn't get another IP address and come back under a new name and continue to read and contact people about barrels for sale here.

It's really a matter of you guys policing yourselves if that's what you want to do. You can just not sell to him and as many of you as don't sell to him are keeping that many barrels in your own little family group here. For those who just want to move the barrel and don't care who gets it there is really nothing we can do in those cases. I cannot in good conscience start telling any of you who you can or can't sell to. I don't think any of you would even want me to try to do that and I know I don't want it.

How about this idea: make a logo for business operators that is in the margin that clearly identifies the buyer as a business operator. This would be an administrative decision and would require admin action. That way the buyer is free to bid, the seller is notified of the business orientation of the buyer, and all parties are free to behave like adults and free men.

How does that sound?

Respectfully,

Grizz

Sound reasonable?

JustShootin · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2007, 05:55:15 AM »

Good Morning
I have been a member of GBO since May of 2005. I have enjoyed reading all of the excellent posts on this forum daily. Does this make me a lurker? If buyers are limited to members that have x numbers of posts then I have been eliminated from buying something that has caught my eye in the classifeds because I haven't posted. I don't think the rules say you have to be an ardent poster to enjoy the forum. I would guess this forum was established to communicate informatiion and provide friendship to its members who share the same interests. I did not write this as an angry response. It was only a point of view.
Thank you for your patience.

lgm270 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2007, 07:41:26 AM »

kennyd · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2007, 08:29:23 AM »

This is a free to us forum, the idea is to exchange ideas, information, and somethimes pleasantries. I resent someone taking advantage of my and am sure others do also. If I offer something for sale, I want whoever gets it to appreciate it and use it, andalso realize that somethimes things do have to move on if they don't fit. I also resent being beat out of something by a sharp trader whether it is here or the guys that cruise yard sales and then go to the flea market. These same sort run the newspaper ads "top $ for guns/bikes/motorcycles/golf/and on. They prey on the unsuspecting. I tried to guess who is the one but haven't figured it yet. Maybe banning is the short answer. I do see posts that look suspiciously similar on other forums--not only gun, but train fans, motorcycle sites, and on. (funny spelling, run on sentences, like they were on something)

PartsMan · « **Reply #25 on:** January 14, 2007, 08:59:46 AM »

I can't see that anything has been done wrong.
I have a barrel for sale on now and I don't care who buys it
or what they do with it.
Please don't punish the rest of us or perspective members for
some guy taking atvantage of the E-bay buyers.(not us!)
One of the reasons I joined the site was to be able to trade.
If I had not ever seen the classifieds I would not have Known I wanted to list on them.

cowboyup453 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2007, 09:00:49 AM »

Maybe Im way off base here but arn't we here to help each other? Isn't that what this site is about helping everyone? I look at it as a place to share experiences and knowledge and ask questions. Not a place to make a quick buck. The issue in question is that someone isn't here to help. They just want to make money. I know I haven't been here that long, but it has buged me that this person has no reguard to helping others here. Is seems to me they just use this sight for added income with an occasional trade to get something that will sell for more on ebay, or to hide what is actually going on. Thats why it bothers me. I understand not every one gets what they expected when buying used, and resale is nessesary. But that is different issue alltogether. These are just my opinions I do not want to offend anyone here. Maybe the one in question will reply and explain and prove us wrong.

tallyho · « **Reply #27 on:** January 14, 2007, 09:29:31 AM »

I believe that when someone acquires something, whether as a gift, or a purchase, it becomes theirs to do with as they will. If I am the donor, or seller, my hold on the thing ends at the moment the item leaves my control. When I gave my son a video game for a recent birthday and a couple of months later he sold it for 'way less than I paid for it in order to buy some yu-gi-oh cards, it was truly none of my business. I admit to getting a twinge when he did it, but truthfully, it was absolutely not my business. I have to say, he regretted it later, and I allowed myself to justify that my original cost was offset by the learning he got.

I too have bought and sold on this site, on other sites, on eBay, and other auction sites. Each time I buy or sell something it is based on my needs at that moment. Sometimes I buy or sell at gunshows, sometimes with friends, sometimes... well you get the picture.

I will admit to feeling a bit po'd from time to time if/when I see a deal that I missed show up elsewhere, but really, it is not up to GB, nor anyone else to try to protect me from my own feelings. Nor is it up to GB or the members here to artificially hold prices on items here down. My concern is that the "law of unintended consequences" will kick in and that ultimately there will be fewer and fewer listings in the classifieds.

As for limiting the reading of classifieds only to members, well if that had been in effect before, I wouldn't have joined when I did. I lurked for awhile before joining, as do so many. And one of the appeals was being able to check out the classifieds and get an idea from knowledgeable folks what kinds of things I could expect to buy as I became a handiholic.

Bottom line for me; trust GB, it is his site after all. Play by his rules. According to what he says above, no rules were broken. If the rules are changed, then there's a need for action. Right now the problem seems to be that some of us think someone else doesn't 'help' or 'support' the group when buying here and selling elsewhere. I hate to say this (I really do) but to me that comes very close to sounding like socialism, especially if carried farther by regulating it. Truth is there are enough folks here ready able and willing to help and support that I don't think it is necessary to expend a lot of energy trying to control the so-called 'selfish' among us.

Bottom line for me: when participating on this site, be honorable, be friendly, be respectful. I remind you of the signature line on Quickdtoo's posts: "Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" - Mark Twain.

Arguably the best signature line, and the best motto for this site. Doing 'right' in reality will be determined freely by the individual, and by the responses of the rest of us, I do not neccessarily think it serves to have it done by decree.

My 2cents.

Cheers
Kerry

Norseman112 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 14, 2007, 09:47:37 AM »

Well I would rather see a fellow member here purchase items that are for sale here vs an ebay buyer purchasing them . Last year I bought a 20 gauge barrel so my daughter could shoot. I am sure I would of paid more for it at ebay and everyone here knows that. I believe members list things here to give other members a chance to purchase because we are kinda like a big family, What I mean is lots of members here have become friends ect and I think this has a lot to do with listing items here vs ebay. Isn't my call, Just my two cents.

John

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 14, 2007, 09:50:06 AM »

From my perspective, I think that if a person is buying here solely with the intent of selling elsewhere in order to make a profit, that person should as a point of honor, declare that fact to the seller. It isn't in the rules it's just good manners.

Again, that's my opinion.