Concerning the buying here and selling at ebay problem

[mt3030]

....Not a place to make a quick buck.....   
....want to make money..... 

Everyone supports their family and/or hobby someway. Many do by buying and selling. If their knowledge of the firearm market allows them to help support their hobby (without breaking the rules of the site), why would you want to deprive them of it? Are the ones screaming the loudest just envious because they are not making the buck? I doubt if you can find a hobby where someone isn't selling used gear.

[MSP Ret]

That's correct MT3030 and I would think we all agree with you. But you may be missing the central point of the feelings generated by the actions of a single member here. Your statement is true but not exactly gremain to the point. I don't mean to argue with you buddy, I like you and have done business with you and found you to an honest and respectable member of this forum but do think you have missed or misunderstood the central issue here. It is not about merely selling items on E-bay. That issue, the right of our brother members to sell items obtained here on E-Bay has been defended by many here. myself included....<><....

This should not become a divisive issue, rather we should all come together and unite to protect what we have and not allow a single individual to take advantage of this site. A simple fix really, UNLESS we just sit here and spin our wheels saying, "he has a RIGHT to do whatever he wants, including doing this to us and this site".  I do not believe any single person has a RIGHT to hurt an individual or group for personal gain...

[mt3030]

....I do not believe any single person has a RIGHT to hurt an individual or group for personal gain...

Andy: I guess I can not see where anyone has hurt this group or an individual. Further, I don't see where this group or any of it's individuals need protecting. Suppossably we, as gun owners, are all adults. Everyone in this group. I just don't see where any one or several have to come to the aid of an adult who sold his property (...of his own free will and accord..) and then it was resold for what the market will bear.

I know this is a sensitive subject with many. Like the members that see a buyer on e-bay paying the market price for items that are available at NEF, and think they have the right to call the buyers stupid or fools. Who gives them the right to judge others by their standards? We get these same sanctimonious threads over and over again. (I tried to research some of the previous threads on this subject, but could get the new search feature to work for me.)

Andy, I have enjoyed our exchange of posts, PMs and e-mails in the past. And I hope you nor any other member would hold it against me for speaking my mind. I just think we need to treat everyone like an adult.

[MSP Ret]

I agree Wally, one of the things that makes this site so nice is that we all can speak out and state our opinions as adults with civility and not be attacked or insulted by others here. Speak your mind buddy, we will all defend your right to do so....<><....

[Pharmboy]

Why don't we send a receiver or two or six or seven in Quicks case and order a whole bunch of barrels from NEF. We could then turn around on ebay and sell for twice as much until we glut the market then prices may be back in check?

What do ya think guys?

Pharmboy

[Cookiemann]

YAWN...SCRATCH BUTT...YAWN....I may be over simplifying this, but here it is...
If no rules of the site have been broken, then there are only 2 people that MUST be satisified on ANY transaction on this site...THE BUYER and THE SELLER.  You cannot force politeness, fairplay and proper manners on anyone.  THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.

When you enter a transaction, the only thing you can do is trust your instincts and deal with others as you would like them to deal with you.  No different than buyin' a car or house or anything else.

Just my 2 cents.

COOKIEMANN

[jbtazgrabber]

my concern here is that if you buy on g.b and sell on ebay the prices here will soon become as high as ebay prices........the big family as we all call ourselfs here will become no longer............i myself do sell on ebay but never anything i have purchased here from my FAMILY..  the way  i read the rules was if i bought here it was for personal use.........not to turn arond and sell on ebay for a profit.......kinda reminds me of some of my EX family to treat me this way........i  resenty missed a barrel sold here.....i thought i was the first buyer/ posteri wasnt........but whene it didnt fit the new owners reciever it wasnt offered to be sold again here........ebay????i dont know//????i think maybe everybody shold reread the RULES.set by G.B......hey im not againt anyone making a buck as long as no one in  our family needs it.....i try to sell here first then ebay........not the other way around...jb

[MSP Ret]

Excellent understanding and stating of the problem jbtazgrabber. I am sure many of us have noticed the prices for barrels on this site have risen quite a bit here since the E-bays sales. I understand prices will normally increase but I have to believe there is strong a correlation between the inordinate numbers of barrels being bought here SPECIFICIALLY for resale on E-bay that is driving the market. Another unfortunate result of that practice is that it takes those barrels out of this arena. All we can do is hope is that the business of specifically and repeatedly buying barrels here for no other reason other than resale on E-bay does not ruin our Handihoilic fun or this fine forum....<><....

[3006bluffhunter]

I will ask now what the intent, and keep an eye out on ebay...I would rather sell an item to people I know need it......Don't forget the new feed backs here....Check them out before selling to them! I believe you could rune a person here with negative feed back! If found out they were not honest with you ......Trust and trust your friends here! I believe feed back can be given anytime! You don't have to sell them something to give feed back! Ebay caught would be negative feed back! Everyone should stay clear of them after that! Dale

[pills]

Businesses must either be advertisers of Graybeard Outdoors or must pay to post ads. For the purpose of this forum you are a business if you buy and sell for a profit the merchandise you list here. If you are either buying here and selling on e-bay or vice versa to make a profit you are a business. If we find you are posting multiple items for sale more often than a couple times a month you are going to have to contact me to convince me you are not a business. If you maintain such a pace of sales for more than two months YOU WILL NOT CONVINCE me you are not a business.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,92183.0.html

[Mac11700]

This seems pretty darn clear to me...

Registration is required to post new threads or replies to the Classifieds Forum.


ALL items placed for sale on the various GBO Classifieds Forums MUST have a price clearly listed. Any ad posted without a price WILL BE DELETED by the Moderators or Admin. Continued refusal to post prices will result in you being banned from use of the Classifieds.

Our moderators will no longer delete ads after item has sold so please DO NOT edit subject line to note items have sold. Instead make a new post to the thread stating they are sold. This will allow prospective buyers to know it's no longer available. However IF you move it to an auction site please do edit subject line to let us know. Failure to do so may result in you no longer being allowed to use the GBO Classifieds.

Use of this forum is free to individuals selling personally owned merchandise. This is defined as items you have held for some period of time which was acquired FOR USE BY YOU but which you no longer want. It DOES NOT include items you bought for the purpose of resale.

All ads must specifically list the items for sale or trade and list a sell price or what you wish to trade for. If a buy ad be specific in what you want to buy.

Specifically NOT INCLUDED in the definition of personal use items are any items you have obtained just for the purpose of selling with the hope of making a profit. However if you buy something say a set of TC frame, barrels, scopes just to get a few of them and have some others you do not wish to keep you may make arrangements with me via e-mail to post the surplus here whether a profit results or not. Such permissions will not be given more than once per month.

DO NOT post items here that are listed on ANY auction site. If you list on an auction site after posting here please alter subject line to make me and the moderators aware so we can delete. If I catch folks listing items here and on an auction site privileges for this site will be revoked.


Firearms Sales, GBO is in no way responsible for the sale of firearms on its web site, any member offering for sale a firearm must follow all Federal, State and Local laws that govern the state in which the sale is being made from and to. Any member buying a firearm posted for sale on the GBO web site must follow all Federal, State and Local laws that govern the state in which they intend to have the gun delivered. GBO is not a "middle man" and no one representing GBO has any part in the sale of or the collection of the money for any item located for sale on the GBO web site nor do we have any dealings in the shipping of the items.

Businesses must either be advertisers of Graybeard Outdoors or must pay to post ads. For the purpose of this forum you are a business if you buy and sell for a profit the merchandise you list here. If you are either buying here and selling on e-bay or vice versa to make a profit you are a business. If we find you are posting multiple items for sale more often than a couple times a month you are going to have to contact me to convince me you are not a business. If you maintain such a pace of sales for more than two months YOU WILL NOT CONVINCE me you are not a business.

I have a special rate of only $125 per year for folks who wish to use the Classifieds Forum for that purpose. Or for the same sum of $150 per year you may post on as many forums as are appropriate for the merchandise you are selling. If you have a special circumstance that causes you to have a one time or limited time group of items to sell at a profit that will not be recurring contact me for arrangements. We'll work something out.

This might be in the case of you buying a large collection of some item that you want a few of but will sell most of hoping to turn a profit.

Business authorized to post are shown as SITE SPONSOR near their user name.

All other businesses or ads appearing to be from businesses will be deleted with no notice to posters. Moderators please copy me the ad for contact to see if they wish to become a paying advertiser.

Proof of Shipment/Payment, GBO encourages anyone conducting a transaction to ensure proof of payment and shipment. If you sale an item and ship it with out a proof of delivery slip GBO can not assist you in seeking legal action or restitution. The same is said for payment, if you send cash in the mail to pay for an item you have purchased then a) we can not aid you in your recovery b) have got to be out of your mind in the first place. It costs very little for these confirmations and are worth every cent of it, they are your only proof, without them it is one member's word against another's, and in such cases GBO reserves the right to not get involved at all. To ensure help from GBO please follow this simple rule as it is for your protection.

I don't know how anyone can argue in the face of the rules set forth...I added the bolds & the underlined to the sections...Here it is again in black & white & red..Why in the world do you guys keep this going...?   http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,92183.0.html If they are a business...they pay for the privalage of using this site......if they aren't...they don't...

I would go further with this...I would say...No Multiple Listings anywhere unless you are a paid reseller...and one other thing...

I feel that since GBO is a free site...and it doesn't cost you anything here unless you are a business...I feel a flat rate fee should be paid to this site for utilizing all the classifieds...It would help pay to maintain this site for us off setting what Greybeard is paying out of his own pocket each month...I know many might not like this...but I feel it's only fair...GBO hasn't ask us non-business folks to cough up 1 cent to be able to enjoy it here...Every thing cost more now...Server cost have sky rocketed Equipment cost has too...Matt's time is worth a-lot...I say we should...and I'm sure most of the honorable folks here wouldn't have a problem with it...Run an add in a local newspaper with the circulation as great as GBO has...and see what it would cost ya...A small flat rate fee sent to GBO Headquarters by the seller for the privalage of being able to sell here on things costing over $25...It may not seem like much to some...and highway robbery to others...but..I feel it should be done to keep this site going...


Mac

[georgeld]

I agree with the last poster.

When I first joined GB, it was to read the stickys about barrel fitting and rechambering someone on another forum referred me to GB.  I learned a whole lot about it from Trotter and reading those how to do it posts/articles.
Having had a monkey on my back some over five yrs I haven't been able to do much of anything, so far, haven't been able to carry thru with the rechambering job I had/have planned either.
 "convert a HMR to .17x28mm. That's still my goal.

I've bought three guns new from the local dealer. With his help and others the papers were so confusing we couldn't figure out which .410 barrel to order on the gun so I could shoot .45 Colts. We thought any .410 would work. After getting the gun, I learned that was the wrong barrel and recently sold it to MSP/Andy.  It had never been fired.  He wanted a 22", this was 26", after learning what he wanted after he spoke for it I told him this was not the one he wanted.  After a few days he decided to go ahead and get mine. I'm grateful, and he was great dealing with. I hope he and I can do so again on other things.

Dusty223 in Texas just sold me an action, a friend picked it up and I'll get it without a FFL hassle sometime this spring. So far, I'm not sure what I got yet. Don't matter as I trust Dick, and my friend both, and I'm not in any hurry either.

Now that I have that action, I'm in need for the stocks and HMR to built it into a usable gun.

The other two guns I've bought were a HMR, and 17M2. I'll keep them and shoot 'em, though I am somewhat disappointed in the M2 on p/dog's. half hour later a center body shot animal was still alive. I don't like that kinda deal at all. So I've learned from that one shot to make certain it's a head shot, or don't shoot.

The HMR so far has not drawn blood. Not many p/dog's out in this cold and four feet of snow.

The .17x28mm is a bit over the HMR's velocity, somewhere around 3550fps I've been told. But, it's worlds ahead because it's: Centerfired and I can reload it.  I've considered quite a number of small centerfire's and like this case much better than anything else I've looked into so far.

I do need a few hundred 5.7x28mm empty cases for this project. Can you help??

I won't knowingly sell to someone intending to just snap things up for profit and quick resale. Nor will I buy anything for that purpose on here.  It's my intentions to accumulate maybe half a dozen complete guns of various cal's for shooting/hunting. All alike but, different cal's.

It was quite awhile after I joined before I even discovered the buying and selling section.

Wish you all well, hope we can make some deals between us and become friends.

George

[Fred M]

I don't see anything wrong with buying for less and selling for more. Its called free enterprise. If you sell something and you are happy with the money you got for the item, then quit belly aching if the new owner makes a profit  when he resells.

It is his property to do what he wishes. Nobody will stop you from selling on E-bay and making the profit yourself. I can't believe that this is even under discussion. Am I missing something?

All or most of you will know you get more money on e-bay, why bother to sell it on GB if it is more money you are after.

[MSP Ret]

Fred most of us sell our items here less than we might buy the for on E-Bay becuase we may have bought them here, possibly for less than we could have bought them for on E-bay. We also sell items here we bought other places to offer the items to those that need them, to our firends, for a good price. Remember the good deal on the springs you sold me? You probably could have sold them for more on E-bay and made a profit, but you sold them to me for less, and I thank you. Many of us have purchased items here from brother Handiholics who consider this a band of brothers or extended family if you will. We care for one another and try to look out for one another. Many here have been the recipients of items for free from other members because those kind members knew  the other member needed or could use it and that member no longer needed them himself  (Thanks Datil, and thanks Stimpy!!!) that's a family and not a bunch of potential customers!!! Many of us have been the ones to send something to another member as a "gift" because they had no use for it and the other member did. Try to find that going on on E-bay, you will not. These two places are different. This is not E-bay, it is a loosely knit group of friends, many who have never met in person and many who never will, but friends none the less....

This is not E-bay, and any correlation is in error,...from your friend, not your customer...Andy...aka...MSP Ret....<><....

[45/70fan]

WHAT ANDY SAID. I have never bought or sold on ebay, but all this talk got me wondering so I went over there for a peak. It would appear the member being spoken of bought a barrel from me last year. I thought I was dealing with a fellow Handi nut, guess I was mistaken. While he was a nice guy to deal with, I wouldn't have sold to him had I known it was for resale. It got me out of a barrel I no longer wanted, but instead of helping a Handi-Holic I inadverantly helped a "business man". That doesn't sit too well with me.

[Fred M]

Andy.
I can see your point of view and the sentimentality of keeping things in the family.
Unfortunately the reality is not in keeping with your sentiments.

Once an item is advertised for sale in an open classified add anyone with the money can buy the item. Yes you can specify certain parameters but they would not be enforceable. Once the money has been accepted and the item has changed hands. The new owner can do with the item whatever he wants.

I have no idea how you would be able to institute a system with qualifications that only certain people could buy this or that item, definitely not in the classified for sale sections.

[Mac11700]

If you want to make sure the barrel stays within the Handi clan here...then it's best not to list it in the classifieds and just call a few friends and ask them if they want it...If you list it..you will be honor bound obligated to sell it...no matter what the individual chooses to do with it...

Greybeard can make folks who buy here and sell there for a profit pay to do this here...I've given this much thought...and have come to the conclusion that telling someone what they can do with it after they buy it..is rather silly...even with an exclusionary agreement...namely because it isn't a binding legal agreement...I really think you guys are carrying this too far...Read the rules...if the individual broke the rules..let Greybeard deal with him...If you want your items to stay here amongst the membership..don't post it in the classifieds...sell it by word of mouth...It's always worked for me...

Mac

[cascadedad]

You know, I really see both sides of this and feel kind of neutral on it since I haven't been involved with any of the buying and selling here.

I think the problem is, there are MANY different people here who have different wants/needs from this site.  There are obviously those here that devote a HUGE portion of their time helping others like me that are complete newbies.  I just recently bought a 223 HB and I LOVE it.  First couple times out, about 2" - 2 1/2" groups.  Yesterday, after some tweaking..............the first 3 shot group at 100 yards I could cover with a dime.  Best group I have ever shot out of any gun, ever.  Now, my following couple groups were 1" to 1 1/2" and then prior to the last group I tightened down the forearm screw and the first 4 shots were inside an inch.  Next two shots were fired one after the other and strung up just a little, but this is only the third time out with this rifle.  This was, by the way, with the Remington UMC 45 gr HPs.

Anyway, a million thanks to those here that put so much time in.  But many of these guys are here to help us Newbies I think.  It appears like they are more than willing not only to help answer a million questions over and over, but also are willing to make sure people don't get "taken" when they can help it.  They might sell a barrel at a low price and feel good about the fact that someone else really got a good deal and are going to put it to good use.  It is not their intention to let someone have a barrel or whatever at this low price, just so they can turn it around on ebay and make a profit.  I commend them for this

Now, there are others that just want to sell their item.  They really don't care who gets it or what they do with it, they just want to sell it quickly and get their money.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with this either.

As long as it falls within the rules of the board and buyer and seller are happy, all should be good.  No one is forcing anyone to make a transaction with a given person.  Communication is the name of the game.  If anyone has questions, they should ask.  Ask the person you are thinking about making a transaction with and PM those on the site that have been here a long time.  It really shouldn't be that difficult to find out where someone is coming from.

[shaner]

hey GB? has the person in question or persons posted here yet? i am guessing not?? cause they are reading any posts but classifieds? if i read your second post here correctly?

[MSP Ret]

No Shaner, he has not posted to this thread nor to any thread about this matter yet....<><....

[shaner]

well i guess it dont really matter after the last couple of days iam startin to  believe that  everywhere you go anymore the inconsiderate people are starting to take over the good people in the world, seems that way anywhere you go these days? iam findin people that   think they can bully their way past ya or ,screw yu when your not lookin and feel that if you didnt see it comin to bad  for you,, iam not just talkin here  its everywhere, the good people are slowly gettin outnumbered  by the inconsiderate ones,  i guess you just have to pick them out as you go grab your a$$   and go on  just my opinion

[Swampman]

I buy and sell on both all the time as my interest changes.  I'm not doing it to make a profit, but I do like to get as much out of something as I can to reinvest in more gun stuff.  Lord knows I've lost money more often than I've made it.

[lik2hunt]

I remember when there were only the rare occasions of Handi barrels on Ebay and the final selling prices were always outrageous!  Someone here would almost always post about it and therefore, drew attention to the fact. That's how I found out what was going on there. Eventually more and more barrels began to show up on the "Bay". Now they are there in numbers all the time. I'm not saying that we have been responsible for the situation but I do feel that we somehow contributed to it. Now I have sold several barrels there and am not ashamed that I have. A big part of them in the beginning were my own. Only three or four of them were purchased from members here and yea I believe all were purchased for resale on Ebay. I have been able to use the Handi marketability to help pay for a '90 model Toyota Pickup (not the total cost mind you) and to help offset the cost of last year's prarie dog shoot. There are a LOT of good deals on Handis out there and it is quite possible to make good money on them by parting them out. I just watch real closely at Pawn shops, the auction sites, other forums, newspapers, etc, Do I feel like I'm part of the family here? You betcha, heck me and Mac have even mended broken fences. I consider MSP Ret to be one of my GOOD friends and I have never even met the man face to face. I have made impressive and lasting friendships at the two prarie dog shoots and I wouldn't have met one of my best friends, Digger, if it hadn't been for this group of Handi fans. Have I helped members from this group out? Oh yea! We all are able to do something within our means for someone here, and there's a lot of gratification to it. Do I feel as connected to members from the other forums I frequent? Nope, but I still frequent them and have respect for their members, however I must say that not all on all forums are near as polite as the members here are. Will I still purchase Handis and Handi parts for resale on Ebay? Oh yea! Does that make me a low life snake in the grass worthy of a paying a fee to be a member here at GBO? I don't think so but it's really not in my hands. I'm not just cruising here for profit, but the occasional deal comes up where profit can be made and it's impossible to resist at times. I have and will continue to do most of my purchase for resale from other sources and not from the members here. Have I hurt anyone here as a result of a purchase for resale deal? I don't think I have, I certainly hope not.
Bottom line is that we Handi-Holics have been somewhat responsible for the Ebay situation and have in one way or another, even contributed to it. Some by buying there and some by selling there. As far as the member in question on this thread, I do feel that he is simply cruising here to make a profit, it's obvious by watching the deals he makes, both buying, selling here, and trading here. I noticed it a long time ago and even PM'ed him about it giving him some experienced and friendly advice about it. He blew me off and ignored my advice to him. I wouldn't sell to him and I sure ain't gonna buy from him unless he wants to make a GREAT deal on something, not very apt to happen though. I haven't seen anyone here paying the ridiculous Ebay prices for items here yet and don't think that will happen, we're all too smart for that. But it is worthy of note that the Handi prices have gone up quite a bit over the past few years and that the resale prices have to adjust as well. I have posted about this in Flitz's thread over on the classifieds forum, you can read it there if ya want. OK I think I'm about done now. Best to all.........................

[btr568]

okay maybe I'm going to be out of line since I'm officially a newbie here,but I'm also not,I lurked for several years before I joined.And I have to admit,the first things I check when I log in is the  Classifieds and the TC classifieds,why because I'm always looking for a deal on sumthing,and most people here are usually asking a reasonabley sane price for it.After all new is new,used is used.
And if I get myself a new Handi rifle,I will wear out that section also ;DWhat can I say,I'm a gun crank,always have been always will be.
I go to ebay alot,mostly it is for a laugh,I've only bought one contender barrel there, in about 7 years,during the bidding wars,it has allways been obvious to me that people's ebay buddies drive up the price to help their pardner out.I can see paying a outragoues price for something IF,it's rare,really really hard to come by or if it's not made anymore.But I always do plenty of reseach on the price of a new one from the company in question verses having to have one made,before I would bid on anything.I have also done the Pm thing there,stateing the real price of a new one to the seller and tell them that after the bidding that when their buddy gets it and they have to relist it again that I will be willing to pay X amount of dollars for it and no more,and that they should contact me when they are having a SANE moment,and that we can work a deal then,it's amazing ,I have 4 barrels from doing this.
I was lucky growing up,I had 3 living Grandpaw's that contantly harped about a fool and his money,an who loved quoting PT Barnhum to me,after I got older I found out they was telling me the truth,imagine that
You can not stop some peoples greed factor no matter how hard you try,except by not playing their game(s)And you can not stop somebody from reselling something they have bought from you after you sell,the only way you can control that is not to sell it to them in the first place.
Now having said all that,I do like the idea of them being marked as a possible ebayer,I'd be sure not to sell them anything,or short of that would somebody PM/email me of these folks name(s),so I'd know who they are.

[MSP Ret]

There is only one person that has been discussed in the background for a lot longer than I have knwn about him and he has not posted to this thread yet and most likely will not for fear of his name coming out in the open for all to see. I am very sure if he did post on this thread one or more of our members would respond and then everyone would know who he is....<><....

[Paul5388]

I don't know that there is a solution to this whole thing.  On http://www.handloads.com we set a 40 post minimum before anyone could post items for sale in the classified ads.  That just got some phoney posts until the 40 post minimum was reached, so nothing was actually accomplished.

Recently, I bought a BC receiver and stock from Haywire Haywood.  I sent him a PM with an offer and we both came to an agreement.  Many of you have seen that receiver on the .357 Mag Carbine I was trying to build (it has ended up being a .22 Hornet).  It was a good deal for both of us (even though I forgot to sign the first check I sent him!), but it didn't and can't end up on Ebay.  It seems like I bought a .30-30 barrel from JPH45 and a .243 from Lik2hunt and I forgot who I got my .45-70 and .22 Hornet from.  They have all been good deals, because I haven't paid more than what the barrels would cost from NEF.  I saved the time and hassle of shipping a receiver to have it fit at the factory, which is reasonable to me.

It's my understanding that's basically the intent of the classified ads at GBO.  If I wanted to sell a barrel or whatever and wanted the maximum return, I wouldn't be offering it here.  Since I'm smart enough to recognize that, anything I advertise for sale here is certainly not intended to make a profit on, but is intended to help someone else, without me losing money.

For someone to take my intentions, and probably most of the other's intentions, and prevert them into a profit venture is unethical to say the least.  I believe we are prohibited from an auction style offering and are mandated to state a price up front, which is reasonable.  If the price was negotiable, i.e. subject to bidding, there would be no complaint on the final disposition.

The software can be modified to indicate the number of posts made in the forums vs the post made in the classifieds.  On handloads.com we don't count posts made in the classifieds.  So, if the same system was implimented here, I wouldn't buy from or sell to anyone with less than "X" number of posts.  That would eliminate classified ad predators for me!