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Author Topic: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W  (Read 3421 times)

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Offline slave

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A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« on: January 15, 2007, 12:10:43 AM »
Want a new 20' katahdin for my Encore.

Looking for some advise on which call you would select and why.

45/70
500 s/w mag
460 s/w mag
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2007, 02:03:30 AM »
For me it would be the 460 Mag. I have all three rounds but not in a 20 inch Encore. The performance of the 460 Mag is great.  But any of the rounds you mentioned will work. Also depends on what you will be shooting and at what distance you want to shoot it.
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Offline slave

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2007, 02:53:24 AM »
RedHawk,

What MV and energy level could one expect from the 200gr 460 out of the 20" PH tube.

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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2007, 03:01:51 AM »
Quote from: slave on January 15, 2007, 02:53:24 AM
RedHawk,

What MV and energy level could one expect from the 200gr 460 out of the 20" PH tube.




To tell you the truth, I really don't know that answer. But I could take a guess. I thing the 2300 fps would be a good guess. But as far as bullets, I like the 300 gr. hard cast bullets. That is my bullet of choice for the 460 Mag. I am not sold on the hornady 200 gr. bullets. I tried them and just did not get the accuracy I expected from them. I was shooting them in my 15 inch 460 Encore barrel. I had better accuracy with the 240 gr. XTP Mags bullets and the Nosler 260 gr. Partitions and the 300 gr. Hard cast GC bullets from Montana bullet works.
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Offline SJPrice

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2007, 11:53:49 PM »
JMO, but the 45/70 in your 20 inch barrel will do anything the 460 will and your choice of factory rounds, your availability of ammo and components and your component costs will all be better.  As for the 500, one would have to weigh in the personal feelings of a 45 vs 50 caliber against the above considerations.  The fun factor can often outweigh the cost factor. Now in a pistol length barrel I would defer to Redhawks experience.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2007, 01:14:04 AM »
SJPrice, the 460 Mag will shot flatter than the 45-70. The reason is the lighter weight bullets that can be used.  Also the recoil of the 460 Mag is not a bad as the 45-70 if you are trying to obtain the same velocity.  Now I am a 45-70 nut, I own 3 of them, so I am not trying to bad mouth the 45-70. But I don't think he would go wrong with any of the rounds he mentioned.  ;D
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Offline Thebear_78

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2007, 09:13:24 AM »
With the barnes 250gr x bullet and 300gr SP x bullet you can get some impressively flat shooting loads for that 20" 45/70.  250gr @ 2400fps, 300gr @ 2250fps with higher BC due to the pointed bullet shape.  They could all be fun but I would definately go with the 45/70, its easily the most powerful of the other two.

Here is the encore 45/70 barrel I had made up.  I had thought it would make a decent boat gun but my dad liked it so much it somehow got into his suitcase when he went back home ;)


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Offline buffalohunter

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 08:15:28 AM »
I prefer the 45-70 myself, have an encore barrel [17 in bull barrel] that I shoot as a pistol barrel. I have been shooting 540 gr  bullets and is very accurate, getting about 1450 fps. This is just my 2 cents worth. :D

Good Shootin
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Offline northern hunter

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2007, 02:38:07 PM »
Hey guys,was wondering about the 50 cal in the 20 " barrel what was it like to shoot and what velocities could you expect,seems like the perfect caliber for bear over bait.
Shoot once and carry a sharp knife ;)
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Offline wyocarp

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2007, 09:18:44 AM »
Like Redhawk has said it might depend on what you will be shooting at and at what distances.  I like the 45/70 and the 500 but I don't like to shot animals at long distances.  If I can't stalk them then I don't shoot them.  That works for almost all animals.  I seldom pull out my long range flat shooters and I would put the 460 into more of that category than the other two.
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Offline kombi1976

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2007, 04:50:01 AM »
I know this is a little off the point but I know of a guy loading his self designed 700gn .500 cal bullet for the 500 S&W.
He's extracting about 1200fps out of a 10.5" pistol bbl and finds they shoot between 2"and 3" groups at 100yds.
Suffice to say they're a nasty proposition.  :(
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Offline jro45

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2007, 04:07:18 AM »
I own the 500 S&W. That revolver will shoot a 1 3/8" three shoot group at 100 yds. with 350 gr bullets. Thats close eought for deer or Bear. Right Redhawk!!
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2007, 04:38:20 AM »
Quote from: jro45 on May 24, 2007, 04:07:18 AM
I own the 500 S&W. That revolver will shoot a 1 3/8" three shoot group at 100 yds. with 350 gr bullets. Thats close eought for deer or Bear. Right Redhawk!!

You got that right.  ;D
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Offline Dustyvance

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2007, 06:20:24 PM »
Personally I'd go with the 45-70. less recoil and they can either be loaded from mild to wild :'(. If its factory ammo u r into, its WAY less expensive ( atleast around here) . JMHO
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Offline .450Marlin

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2007, 09:14:29 AM »
I think the good 'ole .45-70 is probably the best all around choice, and probably the cheapest to shoot too. They are all good rounds though, so as the others have said, it comes to user preference and what kind of shooting you'll be doing. To that list I would also add the .450 Marlin if you can get ahold of one. It is the only one of those cartridges that I have any real, hands-on experience with, and I like it every much. Unfortunately, it is basically a reloader's cartridge (not unlike the S&W magnums....unless you have a rather hefty bank account), as ammo prices are high and getting worse. My best friend does reload though, and he is the one responsible for turning me on to this very capable belted round. Whatever you chose, I think you'll be happy...assuming you can afford to shoot the ammunition anyways :o ::)

Kind Regards,

.450Marlin
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Offline corbanzo

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2007, 02:36:54 AM »
Quote from: Dustyvance on May 28, 2007, 06:20:24 PM
Personally I'd go with the 45-70. less recoil and they can either be loaded from mild to wild :'(. If its factory ammo u r into, its WAY less expensive ( atleast around here) . JMHO


Nothing stopping you from loading the .460 mild to wild.  Especially considering you can use the 45 colt, 454 casull, and .460 mag, that is a WAY bigger range than the .45-70 with both handloads and factory ammo.  Factory .460 is a lot more expensive, but if you are plinking, you can pick up 45 colt rounds for much less than the 45-70. 
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Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2007, 04:56:45 PM »
Quote from: corbanzo on June 02, 2007, 02:36:54 AM
Quote from: Dustyvance on May 28, 2007, 06:20:24 PM
Personally I'd go with the 45-70. less recoil and they can either be loaded from mild to wild :'(. If its factory ammo u r into, its WAY less expensive ( atleast around here) . JMHO


Nothing stopping you from loading the .460 mild to wild.  Especially considering you can use the 45 colt, 454 casull, and .460 mag, that is a WAY bigger range than the .45-70 with both handloads and factory ammo.  Factory .460 is a lot more expensive, but if you are plinking, you can pick up 45 colt rounds for much less than the 45-70. 

 Also I might add that if you reload your bullet costs will be much less with a .460 as you can use colt casull and S&W loadings that means the window is open to just about ANY 45 caliber handgun bullets everything from 230grn ACP bullets to 300grn + cast monsters. All of which can be had at bulk handgun bullet prices. VS 45-70, where let's face it, there are no cheap .45 caliber rifle bullets
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Offline DakotaElkSlayer

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2007, 08:30:17 PM »
Question...what do you want to accomplish with this new barrel?  Yes, the 460 will shoot flatter, but if you want a flat shooter, why wouldn't you just buy a barrel in a pure rifle cartridge?  I mean, hey the .280Rem is a whole lot flatter than any 460.  If you want to chuck big lead, I would think the .45-70 would make the most sense...easy to find ammo, loading components, and it won't kill your wallet in the process.

Jim
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2007, 08:50:12 PM »
The OP hasn't been here since March 21st, guess he lost interest. ::)

Tim
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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2007, 09:12:44 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on June 09, 2007, 08:50:12 PM
The OP hasn't been here since March 21st, guess he lost interest. ::)

Tim
Tim I don't understand. Who is the OP?
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Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2007, 03:21:31 AM »
Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on June 09, 2007, 09:12:44 PM
Quote from: quickdtoo on June 09, 2007, 08:50:12 PM
The OP hasn't been here since March 21st, guess he lost interest. ::)

Tim
Tim I don't understand. Who is the OP?

 ORIGINAL POSTER ;D


 I'm kinda interested in this thread myself, as I'm in the process of putting together a 460 Katadhin.
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Offline kombi1976

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2007, 04:41:44 AM »
Quote from: krochus on June 10, 2007, 03:21:31 AM
I'm kinda interested in this thread myself, as I'm in the process of putting together a 460 Katadhin.
And what exactly IS a 460 Katadhin? :-\
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Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2007, 05:11:23 AM »
Quote from: kombi1976 on June 10, 2007, 04:41:44 AM
Quote from: krochus on June 10, 2007, 03:21:31 AM
I'm kinda interested in this thread myself, as I'm in the process of putting together a 460 Katadhin.
And what exactly IS a 460 Katadhin? :-\

 Sorry! ;D



http://www.mlhunter.com/CFReviewTCPHKatahdikn460.htm
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Offline kombi1976

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2007, 06:14:27 AM »
Right!
Quite a nice unit and based on the review up to most things.
Pity no one makes a solid in .451 cal, eh? :(
It'd be great for water buffalo if they did. :)
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2007, 06:28:23 AM »
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Offline kombi1976

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2007, 08:49:19 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on June 10, 2007, 06:28:23 AM
How bout hardcast?

Tim

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

http://www.competitor-pistol.com/jb%20bullets.html
See, that SOUNDS good, but water buffalo aren't that far behind Cape Buffalo in terms of muscle and bone construction.
As such you really want to use solids if you possibly can.
I know guys are taking down camels with lino-type lead but not buffalo.
That said, I know of one guy who used a M96 Swede with Sellior & Belliot factory 140gn SPs to harvest 4 big water buffs. :o
Used the same load to shoot dingos.......... ;)
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2007, 06:22:13 AM »
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Offline kombi1976

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Re: A 45/70, 500 S/W OR 460 S/W
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2007, 09:00:32 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on June 11, 2007, 06:22:13 AM
There's always Punch bullets if you need more. ;)

Tim

http://www.gunblast.com/BeltMtn_PunchBullet.htm
Mate, those Punch Bullets are AMAZING! :o
They're exactly the thing for using a 45-70 on a Water Buff.
Geez, you could even use them on Cape Buffalo.  :)
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