Author Topic: WHAT BARREL & CALIBER FOR A 600 YARD HANDI SETUP + EBAY APOLOGY (Read 4202 times)

zermatt7 · « **on:** January 15, 2007, 01:45:08 PM »

Ok, Heres the deal...I'll try and keep this breif and just stick to the facts as much as possible !

Bought a Handi-combo ,243/.50 cal 3 years ago...I mainly bow and muzzle loade hunt so I sold the .243 barrel about 6 months ago (on ebay) because I never used it after I sighted it in.
A hunting buddy talked me into getting a .223 barrel for varmint & plinking. He just bought 2 handis after hearing how much I liked mine...He also got 1000 rounds of ammo in the deal so I had all the free ammo unless I wanted to try something else...Have a 3x9x40 new BSA scope but after reading here I decided to get something better !

Tim, QuickD was a HUGE help here with the reccomndations on .223 ammo and the best values in scopes. Thanks Again, Tim ! I bought a Busnell Banner 4x32 and a Simmons Pro Hunter 3x9x40...I also bought MT3030's .223 bull barrel from here, had a great transaction and left POS feed back...Wally's a great guy to deal with ! So Im on my way to building a great varmint handi....

THEN I found out (after I had bought the .223 barrel) that a private shooting club has a long range match once a month open to non club members less than 30minutes from my home !
Killer, I'll take this new .223 set up and have a ball....Well the shoot is 20 rounds each at 200-400-600yards. When I checked it out the basic info on it stated that a 7.62x39 or .223
"WILL NOT" work for 600 yard shots !...So I researched the priarie dog shoot posts and the what I took form it was .223 out to 250 yards, 22-250 (the one I really wanted) and .204 ruger out to 400-450 yards and the 220 swift out to 500 yards...Now the .223 and the 22-250 are out...So to triple check I called a good friend who is a Green Beret Major and just got back from Iraq....He said he is good to 400yards with a .223 at a man size target with about a 75% hit ratio...Meaning that he misses the target completely 25-30% of the time at 400 yards. He reccomended the .270 or the .308....So now my new barrel is DEFINETLY not going to work...
So now I need to buy a new a barrel and a 4th. scope !There was no way I was going to ask Wally to take it back... Since it was on here for awhile and he had to split it up form the scope to sell it..the scope, I think his scope sold first. I put the .223 bull barrel for sale on ebay...
But unless you new the previous story it looks like I bought the .223 B. Barrel here and turned around and posted it on EBAY to make a profit ...Tha was the last thing on my mind !

I use the same handle everywhere so its easy to track....

Actually I just wanted to recoup as much of the .223 barrel $ as possible. And use the $ to buy another barrel that I can take out to the long range shoots !
I 'd hoped to break even on the barrel at best.

Decided on a 220 Swift barrel...Nef doesnt make one...So heres where I need help !
(My goal isnt to try and win the thing, just have alot of fun, and improve my shooting skills for hunting)
The set up I'm considering going with is this....
>BARREL/CALIBER .308-22" Bull Barrel...OR .270-26" regular barrel...My buddy mentioned above reccomended the .270 over the .308 due to flatter trajectory.
>Sims Barrel Resonater...at least until it melts...LOL
>Scope...Simmons Prairie Master 6-24x50 mildot
>Scope Mount/Rail NEF
>Scope rings

?
>Ammo

Comments -Reccomedations the set up welcome !
I'm not currently in a position to bet a Swarovski, Sightron SIII, Zeiss etc... and probably wouldnt any way...And I mentioned my Green Beret buddy because I know for a fact that he spent about half of the last year shooting, and supervising people shooting several hours a day in training at distances up to 400 yards +

Well I'm about out of space so thanks for any input, and I hope no one thinks I'm on here for profit purposes !
Eric
zermatt7

Mac11700 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 15, 2007, 01:58:37 PM »

My recommendations...

243 Bull barrel...Shoot the Berger or the Wildcat bullets...you can try the Scenacor but I haven't shot them...

30-06...again...find a match bullet or ammo that will shoot sub moa in it...

RTV bed the forearm..Shoot it free recoil...and have fun...

PS...you don't have to apologize to anyone for buying and selling off E-Bay.....If anyone gives you grief over it..just click on the report to moderator tab...
Mac

knight0334 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2007, 02:02:52 PM »

Obvious cartridges that will perform out to 600yds: 25-06, 270, 280, 308, 30-06.

Any of the above will work. I dont think they made a 26" 270 barrel, however they did make 26" 25-06 and 280 barrels. Proper bullet selection and loads, and you can have an AT&T express. ....reach out and touch someone/thing. However, there is a greater selection of 30 caliber bullets to work up the perfect load.

If I were the one debating which one to pick for that event - I might lean towards the 25-06. (breaking my minimum of 45 cal oath. lol)

...

Or you can go old school and lob some 45-70 rounds down range with a Buffalo Classic. ...yes, it can be done. Info on the web about the 45-70 at two miles.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** January 15, 2007, 02:15:18 PM »

Eric, I'd opt for the .280, the much higher BC bullets of the 7mm round would trump the .25-06 bullets available unless you get into some very expensive custom VLDs. And you still have a 26" barrel, the only other caliber available with it.

Tim

Berger .284” 168gr Match HP VLD BC= .648

Berger .257” 115gr Match HP VLD BC= .522

backstrap · « **Reply #4 on:** January 15, 2007, 02:26:30 PM »

I dont know y every 1 is saying a 223 wont shoot 600 yards i have a personal freind of mine that shoots national match shoots, with a rock rivers AR 15 style frame and corse a match barrel 223 AT A 1000 yards but thats what all his buddys shot is a 223 from, 200 to 1000 yards they use to use 308 but not now 1 of his buds shots some kinda newer savage bolt action on these shoots they hit from the 6 ring on in to the 10 ring so dont let any body BS u and tell u that at 223 wont shoot that far, as if it where me geting a new barrel i would pick the 308

billy_56081 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 15, 2007, 02:32:18 PM »

I'll second the 280. Good velocity. Excellent selection of high B.C. bullets. Long barrel. You can use your .223 if you want to. I have personally taken a prairie dog at 596 with my savage .223. The major disadvantage of the .223 at 600 will be wind drift. As long as you know the ballistics of your round and the yardage, you could use pretty much anything within reason. Long ago, and still today the 45-70 was used for long range matches.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 15, 2007, 02:36:58 PM »

Since we're talking an H&R here, the 223 would be a very poor choice since it won't shoot the longer bullets that would be used in long range shooting, even the 1:9" has a terrible reputation in shooting the longer bullets which you'd want to use for long range shooting. Eric's club has already stated that it won't work, too!!

Tim

Quote

When I checked it out the basic info on it stated that a 7.62x39 or .223 "WILL NOT" work for 600 yard shots !...

lik2hunt · « **Reply #7 on:** January 15, 2007, 02:50:57 PM »

Well if it were another gun besides the Handi I would probably recommend a .308. But in the Handi either .243 bull 24", or 26" 25-06, or the 26" .280 barrel would be my recommendation. The .280 will win out ballistically over the other two, but the Handi barrels in this caliber have been known to be a little finicky about ammo. The .243 will be easier on your shoulder and probably be less finicky about ammo. The 25-06 would serve you well for what you want, too. I think I'd pick the .280 though just to watch the reaction of the rest of the crowd when you do win the shoot.

BTW a scope is an important piece of equipment to have. Don't go with what's the best price. On the other hand, just because it's ultra expensive doesn't make it a great scope either. This is all my opinion, some based on experience, but it seems that Korean, Japanese, and Phillipines made optics are the clearest. Weavers and Redfields are clear and efficient also. I personally like the Tasco Japan made models but the eye relief is a little on the shy side on most of them. If you want to spend the money and are looking for a medium-high priced scope, then a higher power Leupold probably can't be beat. Have a look at the Bushnell Elite 4200's as well. Might even look at the New Master Series Aetecs from Simmons. The scope you mentioned earlier would not be one I would consider for the type competition you are going to be shooting.

backstrap · « **Reply #8 on:** January 15, 2007, 02:52:28 PM »

Well i am not saying to use it , it just funny u see on here that a 223 wont shot that fare maybe not a handi but the guy i know and all his buddys and there is a bunch of them that shot with him, and they all shoot 223 at a 1000 yards and they dont have any trouble with the heaver bullets but i gess u get a gun that cost 2000 dollers u shot get some thing that will shoot and one bud of his shoots a 450 savage bolt action at a 1000 yards and he said it work just as good as the rock rivers do and its not a match barrel

mookster79 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2007, 03:03:28 PM »

A lot of the other guns mention for shooting that range with a .223 have a faster twist. Most of the AR variants have at least a 1:8 twist. My AR is a 1:7 with a 20 inch barrel. It is not a match gun though and I have never tried shootin at those ranges. I know on a lot of AR sites the guys use a 75 or 77 gr round for those distances. Like quick mentioned, that faster twist rate is needed to stabilize those rounds. Everything I have read on here says the handi's are not a big fan of that heavy of a bullet.

backstrap · « **Reply #10 on:** January 15, 2007, 03:09:03 PM »

I have tried 62 gr in mine they where all over the place didnt like them one bit

GregP42 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 15, 2007, 03:15:04 PM »

If you are looking for a .220 Swift I would have kept the .223 handi barrel and sent it to Wayne York for a rechamber job, that is where my .223 is right now have that very thing done. The next option is to get a .243 24" Ultra in bull or fluted and try it out, then have it rechambered for something like a 6mm-284, that is what I am thinking very hard about right now myself. 600 yards isn't that hard to shoot at, I shoot a 45-70 at that distance almost every month in matches, and yes the .223 handi will shoot 600, but I have not gotten groups under about 20 inches for 10 shots at that range with mine.

Greg

MSP Ret · « **Reply #12 on:** January 15, 2007, 03:20:49 PM »

I would vote for the 26" .280 barrel in a Handi for what you need. If you wanted something a bit larger I suggest a 30-06 or even a .308 if you don't reload. If you do reload and want a 30 cal I suggest to stick with the 30-06. None of those will let you down. Many who responded here are correct about the .223 at 600 yards, on a man sized target you will get many hits, however for long range precision work I feel something a but larger with heavier bullets will do better....<><....

P.S. it is odd how 2 here can read the same posts and come to opposite conclusions. I have heard nothing but priase for Handi's in .280. Mine are great and not at all finiky about ammo. On the other hand I have heard all kinds of stories about many Handi's in .243 that are very particular about ammo and loads and just won't shoot. True some here love thier .243's but I have heard of many others that don't. Not so with the .280's. Also I would not consider a .243 for a 600 or 1000 yard target gun if a round in .284 or .30 cal were available. My $.02 cents anyway for what you want to make of it....<><....

McLernon · « **Reply #13 on:** January 15, 2007, 04:14:18 PM »

Firstly a 220 Swift is not a 600 yard round as it performs best with a 40 or 50 grain bullet(relatively low B.C.). If you want to shoot out to 600 yards and further you'll need a long bullet with a high ballistic coefficient. 308 case is good but an 06 case is better. This way you can push those long bullets faster to reduce the time to target and reduce bullet drop and wind deflection.

Have fun

Mc

MSP Ret · « **Reply #14 on:** January 15, 2007, 04:17:14 PM »

I do believe that man knows where of he speaks!!!....<><....

Mac11700 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2007, 04:33:57 PM »

Quote

Also I would not consider a .243 for a 600 or 1000 yard target gun if a round in .284 or .30 cal were available. My $.02 cents anyway for what you want to make of it....<><...

The 6mm bullets in the right configuration have out preformed most 30 calibers hands down for most sanctioned matches...and the 6.5's are even better...The 6mm and the 6.5 mm are ruling all phases of the bench rest crowd...and with the tactile shooters as well...Look around at the link I provided...You might pick up a few things...The only 30 cal I would even consider in a Handi would be the new unreleased 30 tactile..or 30 BR...and to get one is going to cost a bunch of $$$$$$$...One I think is most interesting is the 6.5mmx308AI that Terry Cross one the Sniper Hide match with...While not really practical in a Handi..one can load close to it and have a similar case built..and have a barrel by 2 methods that have been discussed before..I got to talk with this gentleman last week and he was very helpful with regards to his wildcat..and doing one in a Handi..

The 243 Bull barrel 243 is one superb Handi...Most folks who have shot this barrel...know it's virtues...Load for it and shoot it as one would any BR rifle it will amaze you......and it is absolutely nothing like either the standard...or it's lite weight sibling the super light...Those are the barrels that are a pain to work with...If the 308 bull barrel shot as good...I would have recommended it...but unfortunately NEF in their infinite wisdom has elected to have sloppy chambers with exceedingly long throats...not a good choice for shooting against folks in match play with much better arms...Most here are looking at it from a hunting perspective..and are bypassing one of the better barrels for doing this...There has been much written about the 308 cases...and those variants made with them...Extended fire in a match with a 30-06 variant will be difficult to maintain with as light a weapon as it is...

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

I will say this...If...I ever purchase another new barrel from NEF...it will be a 243 Bull Barrel...They are that good in capable hands...

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2007, 07:42:41 PM »

Again, the .243 Ultra would be a poor choice for shooting the long VLD bullets that would be used for long range shooting, the Berger 115gr VLD requires a twist of 1:7", the .243 Ultra's 1:10" would prove to be as futile an effort as shooting 77gr in a 1:12" .223! With a BC of .565, the .243 still lags well behind the .648 of the .284" bullet. Just face it, the .280's got all it can be for long range shooting in a Handi, the right twist rate of 1:10" for the 168gr VLD, 26" barrel and deep enough throat to handle the long bullets and leave room for a healthy dose of powder!!

And if ya want a bit more umph, have it reamed to Improved!!

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/MediaSvr.dll/TechNoteStream?saleitemid=504813

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=504813

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2007, 09:05:56 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 15, 2007, 07:42:41 PM

Again, the .243 Ultra would be a poor choice for shooting the long VLD bullets that would be used for long range shooting, the Berger 115gr VLD requires a twist of 1:7", the .243 Ultra's 1:10" would prove to be as futile an effort as shooting 77gr in a 1:12" .223! With a BC of .565, the .243 still lags well behind the .648 of the .284" bullet. Just face it, the .280's got all it can be for long range shooting in a Handi, the right twist rate of 1:10" for the 168gr VLD, 26" barrel and deep enough throat to handle the long bullets and leave room for a healthy dose of powder!! And if ya want a bit more umph, have it reamed to Improved!!

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/MediaSvr.dll/TechNoteStream?saleitemid=504813

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=504813

Who said anything about shooting the 115 grain bullets? You think they are the only ones they make?...Try some 80-90 or even the 100 grain bullets...and see how well they shoot... The 105 grain might not do well...then again it might...and with a BC of .527...they will do just fine at 600 yards..Sure for the 115 and up the fast twist is needed because the velocity isn't there other wise..but..drive a 80/90/100 grain Wildcat or Berger at 3400/3200/3000 fps...and tell me its an effort in futility.We are talking 600 yards here..not 1K...and 600 yards isn't really considered long range by many doing this very thing....Say what you will...but getting pounded with a 280 isn't fun for someone not used to it..and the simple truth is...fatigue sets in faster with a heavier recoiling gun...Many other factors in shooting matches...being able to read the wind for one...BC's of bullets are certainly important..but really only matter at ranges beyond 600 yards...this is where the 280 class rifles show their stuff...Don't underestimate the little ole 243 bull barrel...it might surprise ya..

Mac

handirifle · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2007, 09:40:26 PM »

I agree with Mac. At our range we caould shoot 600yds all day long and 1000 on certain weekends. Many 6mm's get used and the 6.5 is gaining ground. In the 243 bull barrel, you could shoot some very high BC 80-90gr bullets from Sierra (Many matches are won with their bullets) and be very happy. Get a 243 bull and don't look back. IMHO most of the other calibers will be MUCH harder on your shoulder and nerves, especially since the last shots are the longest ones, when you need to NOT be getting recoil shy.

In addition, I'd load the hole in the buttstock full of lead. the less recoil you feel, the more you'll concentrate on the shot to be made. The 243 with a 24" bull barrel, and a butt full of lead, and a recoil pad will kick like a 223 and have WAY more downrange accuracy and velocity than the swift.

According to Remingtons factory loadings, the swift (50gr load, their ONLY ONE) has dropped to just over 1300fps at just 500yds. The 243 with a 75gr Accu-tip bullet is still pushing just over 2000. That is very important, as more and more, their learning the later a bullet drops below supersonic, the more accurate it is. I guess there is a sort of shock wave when breaking below the barrier.

here is the numbers copied from rem's site.

Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 50 PSP 3780 3158 2617 2135 1710 1357
Premier® AccuTip™ 75 ATV BT 3375 3065 2775 2504 2248 2008

This same 243 load also drops 16" LESS that the mighty swift at 500yds.

In fact, this same load also drops a full 20" LESS than the 308 loaded with the identical bullet in 165gr and retains 200 MORE fps at 500yds. That is only HALF the distance you want to shoot, so the numbers will change at 1000.

Save your shoulder, and get the 243 bull.

just bill · « **Reply #19 on:** January 16, 2007, 02:46:36 AM »

Well.........this thread has been interesting for me as I have been looking into simular. Locally during the summer there are a growing number of Woodchuck Shoots here that I have interest in. Bascially they are shot prone from bags or bi pod only at woodchuck size targets. 3 shots each at 100, 300 & 500 yards. After a couple warm up shots at 100 there are no foulers,siters,etc. allowed. While some use custom 6-284's etc. others just use what they have for woodchuck hunting. While they comprtitive in nature with a prize awared it's also in fun spirit.
I have shot 500 yards with a heavy barrel 22-250 Tikka and that caliber with a 55 gr V Max will surprise you at times as speed not just BC bucks wind too. Still it's not ideal and for bench is better suited imo to 300 yards. Some use the high BC .223 ammo from fast twist .223 AR-15's. A fun set up but also costly just for a Woodchuck shoot and I prefer to actually hunt woodchucks the old fasion way, walking with a light caliber rimfire, rim magnum,Hornet etc. So it wouldn't get used except for these Woodchuck shoots. That brought me to the Handi Rifles as a low cost option that would also be fun,guys get a kick out of etc. and still competitive because as others mentioned at about 500 yards or even 300 yards in this shoots case, wind dopeing and knowing your come up's plays likely as big a roll as your bullets BC. After all there are no sighters in this competitions Varmint format.
Looking into the Handi's .223 1-9 twist and other calibers it seems there rifling twists just don't match what you normally see from others in terms of stabilizing higher bc bullets. Maybe the micro groove rifling? I am not sure. But the .223 Handi is out. A .280,30-06,.308 etc. would in my opinion be crossing the line from my local shoots design of a "Woodchuck/Varmint" shoot. As fe would use them for such. In factory Handi calibers the 25-06 down would be imo a traditional,honest fit for such a shoot. The 25-06 while a good deer/goat caliber was actually a long range varmint caliber originally if you read up on it's history. For me in a Handi that leaves the 25-06 or .243. I notice the 25-06 does have the longer barrel that the caliber prefers. So thats where I am at on this interesting topic.
Another option I looked into was work on a Handi by Precision Rifle Works. Basically one of their stub gun handis with the works yet still reasonable on the wallet. This route a .223 with a honest fast twist could be done along with having a more accurate Handi. By the way from what I read last summer. A standard .243 caliber custom built gun took first place in the largest Snipers challenge contest last year. I seen the article on 6mmbr.com I can't remember what grain bullets he used and not sure a Handi could stabalize simular and surely is not as accurate as that gun. Just thought I would point it out though. Low recoil surely helps with better bench scores.

"According to Remingtons factory loadings, the swift (50gr load, their ONLY ONE) has dropped to just over 1300fps at just 500yds. The 243 with a 75gr Accu-tip bullet is still pushing just over 2000. That is very important, as more and more, their learning the later a bullet drops below supersonic, the more accurate it is. I guess there is a sort of shock wave when breaking below the barrier."

Interesting statement. I beleive that comes from 22lr rimfire bench shooting. Either keep the bullet below from muzzle to target as in use a sub-sonic. Or depending on the distance above. But don't cross/drop through from the muzzle to the target

Just some thoughts..............interesing topic.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2007, 03:12:16 AM »

Very intersting, and thanks for all the info guys, also the info that I had missed that there were not problems with the BB .243 only with the standard contour barrel and the Suoerlight. This thread was very good reading and extremely informative and helpful, as befits this site...Thanks again to all....<><....

Mac11700 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2007, 04:36:35 AM »

If the match was only 20 -50 rounds spread out over a full day of shooting,then I agree with Quick and others on going with the 280 and some good bullets...But...if it entails shooting 100 or more in a much shorter time span as many matches are..the the 243 would be my choice namely because of the recoil factor..You really need a round that will allow the rifle to stay on the bags if using them after the shot..and allow you to see thru the scope..The 243 or the 243 Improved will do this..the 280 or 280 Improved won't..and fatigue from this pounding will happen as a result..The 284 bullets do offer the true long range answer...and is certainly one of the better barrels in stock form in a Handi..especially from a hunting perspective..to able to hunt at long range...but for paper and matches..I'll take something that will work as good with out all the recoil involved offer a good BC for the range and enjoy shooting 100 rounds or more..If I did go with the 280..it would have enough weight in the stock but not enough to take it out of the class..and if they allowed modifications to the stock..I certainly would consider using a Gra-Coil type mechanical recoil reducer..

Mac

Sourdough · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2007, 05:50:57 AM »

Here is what I use, 30-06 with Sierria Game-king 165gr HPBT. I have used this combination for seven years for hunting during the winter. Most of my shots are from 300 to 500 yards. I often reach out to 600 and sometimes 700 yards, but the shot is getting real iffy then. Beyond that the 06 lacks the velocity to expand the bullets and make a clean kill.

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #23 on:** January 16, 2007, 06:11:17 AM »

The Rem. loads in the 220 Swift are on the mild side,with handloads you can get real close to 4000 fps.with the 50 gr.and 4300 or 4400 fps with the 40 gr. bullets.The Swift with a 26" barrel is up to the taslk at 600 yds.(ask the P.D.'s at the last shoot) I don't think the Handi would be the best platform for a 600 yd. gun but it's worth a try. Digger

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2007, 07:06:42 AM »

I've read this thread all the way through twice now, and either I'm missing something or zermatt has not stated what the target he will be shooting at will be. An egg? A man-sized silhouette?

At anything over 300 yds, the BC of the bullet is important, but the technique employed becomes more and more a factor as the yardage increases. Things like stock configuration, type of rest, and wind doping ability weigh in as much as the cartridge and bullet. You need to be able, as a minimum, to hold absolutely still on your aiming point to have any chance of scoring a hit. This means a solid rest and supporting the rifle at the rear as well as the front.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2007, 07:16:26 AM »

We all know there are better cartridges to hunt with for different needs..but we aren't talking hunting here...are we?? Without a doubt the 30-06 and it's variants are some of the best long range hunting rounds going...They will do most everything their big brother magnums will do at 600 yards..and do it without all the fuss and recoil...Move out further...and the heavy hitters comes into their own...Even doing a 20-20-20 course of fire is a-lot when someone isn't used to a 30-06 class cartridge...and it takes a-lot to accurately shoot a harder kicking rifle...Put lead in the stock in any of them and bring the weight of it up to 10-13 lbs for extended bench shooting...that will bring it's recoil levels down to much lower levels with the bigger calibers...and will bring the 243 down to to the 223 or less...and make it a joy to shoot...

Mac

billy_56081 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2007, 08:52:52 AM »

I night have to rethink my 2nding of the 280 and say the 7mm08. I guess to it would depend on the particular barrel. I met a guy at the varmint hunters convention a few years ago that used a very small 7mm wildcat for 1000 yard competition. The other shooters there gave him a hard time about his cartridge choice being too slow for 1000 yard competion. Well if what I heard later about him is true, he set a new world record. His theory was that he knew the yardage, he new his ballistics, the lower recoil would be a benefit. Good luck on your competion, and most of all. Have fun.

zermatt7 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 16, 2007, 10:04:59 AM »

Wow,

thanks for all the great info..This has been a real eye opener !

Here is some updated info on the shoot...

It is 3 rounds of 20 shots in the PRONE positon !

The target is an (MR) target

I didnt know the target size at the time of the first post...I also stated that I wanted to use this as hunting practice, and not to try and win the thing...If it was bench shooting the .280 would be hard to beat...But I dont reload etc.. and according to the Recoil Energy chart Quick D posted the .280 has about double the recoil of a .243...also the gun is a handi whch isnt the heavyiest thing in the world !

again these psots have been extremly haelpful !!!!

mitchell · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2007, 11:41:30 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on January 15, 2007, 01:58:37 PM

My recommendations...

243 Bull barrel...Shoot the Berger or the Wildcat bullets...you can try the Scenacor but I haven't shot them...

30-06...again...find a match bullet or ammo that will shoot sub moa in it...

RTV bed the forearm..Shoot it free recoil...and have fun...

Mac

+1 thats the only way to go but don't forget that your little 223 can go out to 400 with no prob even my m4 with the cheap glass the army gave me can shoot 400 yards no porb.

PartsMan · « **Reply #29 on:** January 17, 2007, 08:47:15 AM »

Isn't the good old 308 the cartridge to beat for long range target shooting.