Ruger Strength Question

[AZ223]

A friend of mine just bought a New Model Blackhawk in .45 Colt, 4 5/8" barrel. Beautiful gun, but he hasn't shot it yet. The question came up about shooting hot loads in this gun - Is there a significant difference in the frame strength between the SBH and New Model Blackhawk or Bisley if you want to go to hotter loads? I'm thinking of getting a .45 Colt, and was wondering how much difference there was in this regard.

Thanks! 

[COLT45]

There is a lot more strenth in  a Super Black Hawk that in a Std Black Hawk

The BH is stronger than the NEW  Vaquero--BUT many folks push the .45 Colt to near .44 Mag in power in the BH. I have both a 45Colt and a 44Mag. to me if I want Magnum power I shoot the 44 Mag. Some Manuals  have hot loads listed for Rugers and Freedom Arms only. If you want to use hot 45Colt loads use a Well known reloading Manual , such a Speer.

The Speer #13 manual shows for a 45 Colt 260 gr JHP -20.5 gr of W296 for 1183 fps. NOT for a NEW VAquero

 It shows for a 44 Mag -270 gr. GD-SP--21.0 H110 for 1309 fps---

If you are looking for magnum performance go to a magnum.

[Camel 23]

The only difference between the Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, and Bisley models is the grip, trigger, and hammer configuations.  They are all of equal strenght.  The basic frames are all the same.  The New Vaquero is a totally different animal and not as strong.

[Lloyd Smale]

what he said other then the fact id add the old vaqueros to that list of strong ones. NOT THE NEW VAQUEROS!!!!! There isnt spit differnce between any of the old ones in strength. The super with its unflutted cyl is arguably a litte stronger but placement of the bolt cuts are the week spot in the cyl anyway and there the same on all of them. A 44 has a little more meat in the cyl but the .45 will send the same weight bullet out the barrel at the same speed as a 44 with alot less pressure and will actually exceed the power of the .44 if carefully handloaded Dont worry the .45s are plenty strong! if they werent id no doubt be missing fingers and hands. In my younger dumber days i was known to push the .45 to some rather high pressures! STick to the loads listed in the reloading manuals for ruger only guns and youll be just fine.author=Camel23 link=topic=109005.msg1098322764#msg1098322764 date=1168942209]
The only difference between the Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, and Bisley models is the grip, trigger, and hammer configuations.  They are all of equal strenght.  The basic frames are all the same.  The New Vaquero is a totally different animal and not as strong.
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[Ahab]

You want power? Go with the .454 Casull. Then you can also shoot .45 Colt. Advocating hot loading the .45 Colt is just plain foolish.

[Castaway]

Ahab, why do you say "hot loading" the 45 Colt is foolish? I can understand if you are referring to non Ruger's or non Thompson's, but it befuddles me that you made such a general statement.

[AZ223]

Ahab, why do you say "hot loading" the 45 Colt is foolish? I can understand if you are referring to non Ruger's or non Thompson's, but it befuddles me that you made such a general statement.

This is more where I'm coming from in asking my question; 'hot' refers to whatever pressures are safe within a particular firearm. My NEF single-shot has sticking cases when I approach maximum velocities, so I back off; hot-rodding it would serve no purpose other than to frustrate me and possibly hurt me as well. So I went to a bolt-action 700, and it LOVES hotter loads (accuracy-wise, anyway), and cases don't stick, etc, and I'm still within book values. So, I'm not interested in "Magnumizing" a cartridge as I am in knowing what is a safe threshold for a given revolver. A .454 does interest me, but I didn't find one in SA in my old Ruger catalog.

Thanks for the relpies!

[Racer X]

There is a lot more strenth in  a Super Black Hawk that in a Std Black Hawk

The BH is stronger than the NEW  Vaquero--BUT many folks push the .45 Colt to near .44 Mag in power in the BH. I have both a 45Colt and a 44Mag. to me if I want Magnum power I shoot the 44 Mag. Some Manuals  have hot loads listed for Rugers and Freedom Arms only. If you want to use hot 45Colt loads use a Well known reloading Manual , such a Speer.

The Speer #13 manual shows for a 45 Colt 260 gr JHP -20.5 gr of W296 for 1183 fps. NOT for a NEW VAquero

 It shows for a 44 Mag -270 gr. GD-SP--21.0 H110 for 1309 fps---

If you are looking for magnum performance go to a magnum.

The Speer manual warns against loading the 45 Colt (Ruger/TC/FA only) to 44 Magnum PRESSURES...not velocities. However, the closest "Apples to Apples" comparison of showing the superiority of safe, heavy 45 Colt loads over the 44 mag was actually in the Speer # 13 manual.

1) "In the 44 Mag data, the 300 grain Uni-Core soft point atop a max charge of W296 achieved 1187 FPS, tested from Copper Crusher Equipment at a max pressure of 40,000 CUP (Speer manual, p 566)

2) "In the 45 Colt data (Ruger/TC only), the 300 grain Uni-Core soft point atop a max charge of W296 achieved 1193 FPS, tested from Copper Crusher Equipment at a max pressure of 25,000 CUP (Speer manual, p 586)

In this example, the 44 mag requires 37.5% more chamber pressure to move the same weight, same bullet design/construction to essentially the same velocity. I would rather have a 45 Colt anyday.

[Camel 23]

You want power? Go with the .454 Casull. Then you can also shoot .45 Colt. Advocating hot loading the .45 Colt is just plain foolish.

Loading a 45 Colt for a Ruger above published loads for that given Ruger would indeed be foolish but it is completely safe to use published loads as long as you use safe loading techniques.  I don't think anybody was advocating the use of loads above what is totally safe.

Is there a significant difference in the frame strength between the SBH and New Model Blackhawk or Bisley if you want to go to hotter loads?

I was assuming (my bad) by hotter loads you meant hotter than 14,000 cup loads used in Colts and Colt cloans.  If this is what you meant than the answer is all Ruger Blackhawks, Super Blackhawks, Bisleys and original Vaqueros can handle the hotter loads.  If you meant can they handle loads hotter then those listed in manuals for Rugers, its your gun blow it up if you want to.

[AZ223]

I guess I was too vague in my original question; you guys have covered what I wanted to know, and thank-you for that. I'm not interested in blowing my gun up, only in the fact that ALL of the newer Ruger Blackhawks can handle the loads that are listed as being safe for Rugers. I don't have a Speer manual, but in checking Hodgdon's data, the highest pressure for the loads specified for Rugers are at or below 30,000, whereas ALL of the .44Mag loads are significantly above that. Until I began investigating recently, I had no idea the .45 Colt was as versatile as it is, and only wanted to confirm what I'd gathered as hearsay at some of the local gunshops.

Thanks!

[Camel 23]

That Hodgdon data is a great place to start. H-110 and Lil' Gun are two great powders if you want to push heavy bullets and HS-6 is a good one for mild to medium loads for the 45 Colt.

[Lloyd Smale]

as long as you understand that all of the new vaqueros cant take them just the large framed ones.