Best yet

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Well ive seen some names here that ive seen on other sites but hey, the other site is getting boring and im in need of some people that are still breathing lol.

Anyhow, i bought some new Tru glow sights from Cabelas the other week and just put them on last friday and took it up to the NRA range with my brother in law. Started out at 25 yards and found it 6 inchs low, moved it up, shot again and hit a tad to the left so i left it and took another shot and it hit a 1/4" from the last bullet so i was all happy with that. Walked back and reloaded and set the rifle up and fired at the 50 yard range, 4" low, dead center, reloaded and made adjustments and fired again untill i was 4" high of the bulls eye. Went back to reload and went for 100 yards, Shot and was 2" low at 100, adjusted and got it dead on at 100 yards, shot again and 1 more time and came back with a huge smile, my bro in law walking behind me with mouth dragging and went back home with an Open sighted 1" group @100yards muzzleloader. I was extremely happy with those new sights. I had cheap plastic sights on it before and could shoot 2" @ 100 but they kept flexing and flaring out and messing me up. Best groups ive ever had with this rifle in the 4 years ive owned it. My bro in law wants me to scope it for him so he can use it during his muzzleloading season but i  want to let him get good with the open sights. So im really happy with the way this rifle is shooting. I'll never have to pick up another inline again. i think i can really tighten the groups when  i try out my powerbelts. Heres the load i was using:

90 grains pyrodex RS "loose"
385 grain great plains bullet
CCI shotgun primers

 Rifle is a Winchester X-150.
  Who says you need a $600-700 gun for great groups?
 Also forgot to mention, Zero swabbing between shots. The powder was burning clean with the cci primers.

[slave]

Nice, very nice with iron sights

[Redhawk1]

Nice shooting, but no need to knock other if they choose to shoot $600 or $700 guns.

[rks1949]

You can get a "shooter" or a "dog" in any brand. If you shoot that,that well,THINK how good you could shoot a 700.00 gun with a good trigger?

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

You can get a "shooter" or a "dog" in any brand. If you shoot that,that well,THINK how good you could shoot a 700.00 gun with a good trigger?

Actually this one has a great trigger, breaks at 3.5lbs with very very little creep. Most of the higher brand name rifles need a $60 trigger kit because the factory cant fix the trigger to what they advertise them at.

Redhawk i wasnt knocking, i was just saying, most people think you need a 6-700$ rifle to shoot groups like that and that cost is just for the rifle, the scope costs extra.

[kyelkhunter3006]

None of my "higher priced" guns by T/C or Knight have needed anything done to the triggers.  All break at 3lbs or so, Black Diamond, Omega, Disc Extreme and Elite.  I wish the centerfire makers could put triggers that good on their rifles. 

As for the whole CVA/Traditions VS the "high dollar" guns, to each their own.  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.  There's been too much read and witnessed by myself to risk getting a gun that "might" shoot well.  I've had three CVA's, the Eclipse, Hunter Bolt, and Kodiak, and not a single one would shoot with my T/C and Knight guns.  Same with all of the Traditions I've tried, including Pursuit, Pursuit Pro, Evolution, and the Lightning bolt action. 

All of my guns will shoot an inch at 100 yds, and so far, the Omega, the Extreme, and the Elite will shoot well under that if I am up to it.  As for high dollar, well, a little legwork on-line can save you $$$$.  I paid $180 for the Black Diamond, $220 for the Omega, and, believe it or not, $211 for the Elite.  All new in the box.   

If you compare what I paid to the usual retail prices, at the percentage of savings, then I ought to be able to get a new CVA or Traditions for about $75 or so, somewhere.  At that price, it would be a good deal.  I buddy HAD a new Optima that he loved annd couldn't brag enough about until he shot my Knight and found out what I paid for it.  Then he sold the CVA and got a Knight too.   

[slave]

Well it would cost me about $3,000 for LASIK before any amount of money on a ML will get me a 1" group at 100 yds with iron sights.

[kyelkhunter3006]

Now that is an expensive way to shoot a muzzleloader!!!!  At least LASIK can help you.....I'm stuck with glasses because a childhood injury to my left eye.  I'm not knocking 1" groups with irons at all.  It's great shooting.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Now that is an expensive way to shoot a muzzleloader!!!!  At least LASIK can help you.....I'm stuck with glasses because a childhood injury to my left eye.  I'm not knocking 1" groups with irons at all.  It's great shooting.

I to have to use glasses. I went to the eye doc for glasses and he said hes been in business for 20 years and never saw someone so near sighted before lol. But ive never been able to shoot  groups like this before, Im thanking the new sights for this. I also switched to a way smaller orange dot i stick on my targets, i used the big 3"ers before and its way to blurry at 100 yards. Im using the 1" orange stickers now. May try the really small ones next. Without my glasses, and trying to shoot, i cant not see the 100 yard target. 50 yards max with no glasses. Im proud of the new groups it shot and why shouldnt i be? i did something that most muzzleloaders can only do with a scope and luck.

[AndyHass]

I've owned pretty much the full range of ML....from a $119 Traditions Deerhunter to a $700 thumbhole Omega stainless.  Every single ML I have ever owned ended up shooting 1" at 100yds with some load development and work (trigger, bedding etc).  While the cheap guns may seem a bargain, the Deerhunter required extensive work on the sear to be shootable (from the factory I could hang the cocked gun from my finger and it wouldn't fire).  The other Traditions, a Lightning LD, required barrel floating, the trigger was downright dangerous as received from the factory (sometimes it would fire if the bolt was closed with the safety off); additionally, after 2 years of shooting it often, the "firing pin" would no longer consistently set off 209s. 

I had to bed my thumbhole Omega to get consistency but that was the only work done to the gun.  My Omega X7 was perfect as supplied.

I don't buy high-end MLs because I have money to burn or because I can't get accuracy from a cheap gun.  I buy them because the quality is second to none, and I can run hundreds of rounds a year through them and still never have to replace them.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

I have a traditions flintlock and love it! The only problem i had was the trigger adjustment screw kept backing out on me after 5 shots so  i put some teflon tape around it and havnt had any problems to this day.As for spending a huge amount of money on a mler, I wont do it, Not when i can spend under $300 on a rifle with a lifetime warranty and never had any problems in 4 years i owned the gun. Im glad i let my ex girlfriend buy me the winchester  .  I'd like to buy my 2 nephews one to share but that will have to wait untill later. I think winchester, even tho it is still bpi, are way higher quality than the cva/ new frontier brands. But look at it this way, not everyone can afford $400+ muzzleloaders, i personally looked for the cheapest Mler i could find and bought it and have stuck with BPI ever since.

[kyelkhunter3006]

I have the same problem with a Traditions Deerhunter in .32, the trigger is horrible.  I got it for $100, NIB, to play with the .32.  I've got to do something about the trigger though.  Andy, did you do the work on your gun to get the trigger to a reasonable pull?  If so, could you PM me with the info on what to do? 

As for spending a huge amount of money on a mler, I wont do it, Not when i can spend under $300 on a rifle with a lifetime warranty and never had any problems in 4 years i owned the gun. Im glad i let my ex girlfriend buy me the winchester 

I'm not saying spend big money on a rifle, I'm as "cost efficient" as the next guy.  I'm willing to spend the time looking for a good deal rather than buying something that's not as good as what I desire, which is quality and longevity.  What good is a lifetime warranty if the gun doesn't last that long?     That's one of the biggest complaints with the foreign rifles.  My personal experience with those brands wasn't good, so I stay away from them.

Also, if you can pay $300 for a rifle, or pay $300 for a gun that sells for $500, why not get the higher grade gun?  It's still just $300.  I admit there is a point of diminshing returns when comparing cost to value.  I won't spend $600 on a muzzleloader either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all knocking you for having the Winchester.  If you are happy, that's all that really matters.  I know several people with the Winchester rifles, either the X-150 or the Apex, and they are happy with them.  They all say priming the X-150 can be a pain, and that is the only negative that they have. 

They all, to a man, only get them out to get ready for muzzleloader season, and probably won't put 500 rounds through the gun in their lifetime.  I put close to 500 through my guns just this past fall.  The end of Andy's post sums it up for me.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Yeah i read randys review on the rifle, It was a fair review. The x-150 can be a pain to cap if u arnt using the right primers. the brass CCI primers slide in easy and pop out when u open the bolt. Besides them shooting clean, thats the other reason i like the cci primers. I got my moneys worth out of this muzzleloader and i honestly wont look at any other brands due to some of them being iffy with conicals. As of right now, theres no other inline that i'd pick over it.

[kyelkhunter3006]

I would say that it seems most other Winchester owners agree with you, because I  hardly ever see any of them used anywhere, whether on-line or in shops.  That's a pretty good testament in itself.