Author Topic: mosin-nagant  (Read 585 times)

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Offline mooman

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mosin-nagant
« on: January 17, 2007, 06:03:02 AM »
hi everyone ,i have a few questions. i'm planning on attending a gun show next weekend . i'm looking to buy my first mosin-nagant . any info on what to look for or avoid would be helpful. i'm looking to pick-up the short version . any help or info will be greatly appreciated . thank's in adbvance.

Offline Stan in SC

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Re: mosin-nagant
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2007, 07:02:41 AM »
There are three possibilities in a Mosin carbine.
#1 M44-has bayonet.Most frequesntly found model.
#2 M38-no bayonet or provision for one.Not found as frequently as the M44.Usually counterbored.
#3 M91/59-Cut down 91/30,has no bayonet or provision for one.Best one of the three.Also the least frequently found one.
The M44 will probably be the one you find most readily.Get the absolute best bore you can find.The bayonet is no problem.
One other possibility is the longer 91/30 model.Don't overlook these just because they are longer.Usually they are good shooters,especially the recently refurbished ones.
Most accurate is the M39.This however is one of the longer lengths.
If I were just starting to collect/shoot Mosins I would look for the best overall condition with the best bore you can find.Expect to spend somewhere around $100.

Stan
The more I listen,the more I hear....and vice versa.

45/70..it's almost a religion.

Offline Almtnman

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Re: mosin-nagant
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2007, 08:08:28 AM »
Here's a little info to help you make that decision that I had here on the computer.

When you initially ask about which Mosin to get, we need to figure out why one wants a Mosin, and what they would plan to *do* with it. Since you propose to purchase several, this makes things much easier. Here's a brief survey of Mosin Nagant rifles:

Russian:

The original Mosin, the "Three-Lini Rifle" of 1891. A very long, heavy fun to shoot but not to carry rifle. It has interesting long range sights, and is getting very difficult to find in decent condition. If you find one for a decent price, get one; they are scarce. If you find a Chattellerault for $150, let me know. There are many web sites that tell about the whole family; easy to find by Google. These rifles have little blast compared to the others, and less recoil. Still; they are a 30-'06 class rifle; so wear protection and be prepared.

The Mosin 1891-30 model. A few inches shorter, a fair bit lighter; still pleasant to shoot and easier to haul around. These vary in quality from miserable (late 1943, for instance) to beautiful (earlier built rifles). The bores of the late war year rifles are often oversize and eccentric; for a shooter try to avoid 1943 and 1944 makes. Even the nice looking rebuilds out there have poor bores in some instances; be careful.

The 1938 Short Rifle. Easy to carry, a bear to shoot. This puppy and it's litter mates the 1944 and 91-59 models are horribly loud and abusive compared to about any other service rifle you may have fired. People move over three benches or leave when you shoot. The fireball visible in daytime is four feet long and two feet in diameter. They kick worse than you would believe, and you *will* be hurt the first time you shoot it. NOT a good first Mosin for shooting, though you get used to it and they can be a lot of fun. Reloading to 30-40 Krag levels makes them manageable.

The 1944 Model. Same (for the most part) as the 1938 with the addition of a folding bayonet. These were sighted in with bayonet extended; so if you are off of the paper when shooting try extending the blade. Seriously; it works.

The Mosins have steel buttplates and were designed for use in Russia; ie with heavy coats on. They are not great for firing from the bench in a t-shirt! But hey, we're all handloaders here, right?

Finnish Models

These are the best shooters of all the Mosins. The Finns have a proud tradition of marksmanship, and it shows in the rifles they rebuilt for their own troops. The Finns *never* made a Mosin receiver; all were either captured or bought receivers. They used the standard 1891 and 91-30 rifles; but usually rebarreled. If the original barrel was good enough(rare) they left it on. The Finn guns have the most consistent bores and rifling; they are the best shooters, as I said.

The 1927 and 1928 models are worth too much as collectors to use and shooters; unless care is taken with them. They are rare enough that you probably won't see them; and if you do the price will push you away from them to use as "truck guns" or similar.

The Finn Model 39 is an great rifle. If someone wanted a Mosin to hunt and shoot with, and were not concerned with weight I would absolutely suggest the M39. Accurate, reliable, dead strong and made for serious business; killing Russians.

Other Countries

M-44 Mosins were made by Bulgaria, Poland, China, Romania, Hungary. The Chinese rifles suck badly. I would like to have one, but only to fill a hole in the collection. The rest are fine, easily on par with the best of the Russian M44s.

Refinished Rifles

When buying Mosins there are a couple things to look for. A rifle that looks "new" may be new; arsenal rebuilt, or arsenal refinished. An arsenal rebuilt rifle makes the best shooter; re-habbed but broken in. A new rifle is exceedingly rare; hardly worth even talking about except in the case of Polish M44s; there are a bunch of them brand spanking new out there.

The Arsenal refinished ones are the flat black-blued rifles out there. The wood looks OK, the metal looks good; but the bores may be rough or even messed up badly. They are often counterbored. These are dip blued; so the barrel will always look dark, unless it has been fired a bunch since the re-blue. Dark isn't necessarily bad; neither is pitted lightly, oddly enough.

Overall; the Mosins are great bargains for a collector, for short range deer/bear guns; whatever you would want a roughly .30 caliber, roughly .30-'06 class rifle for. They don't shoot like new rifles, but at $60 would you expect it? They have a rimmed round, so they are easy to load for, and take reduced loads down to 400 fps nicely. I shoot cast bullets at 400 fps using pistol/shotgun powders in mine. Bullets made for the Lee-Enfield will work in bores not exceeding .311"; all Finn and most other rifles will fall into that category. I have a 1944 91-30 with a .317" bore; I will never be able to shoot this accurately. I have it to fill a hole in the collection.

I am tired; so I will stop. Any questions? Oh yes, a short wrap up.

Best Mosin for shooter:
Finn M39. The Russian or Finn 91 and 91-30 are next, based on personal preference.


M38 and M44 are great to carry, and with handloads they are good to shoot as well. Faster powders will tame the blast and flash. Use milsurp ammo with caution. BTW, ALL MILSURP 7.62x54R AMMO IS CORROSIVE. I don't care what the vendor told you, or what the web site said.
AMM
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"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."~~Thomas Jefferson

Offline TrenchMud

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Re: mosin-nagant
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2007, 08:17:05 AM »
Most accurate I would say is the Mdl. 27 from Finland. Probably will be difficult to find.
My Russian Mdl 38 (carbine)shoots about 8 inches high at 100 yards.
My Chinese Mdl 53 (carbine) Shoots Very High also.
My Mdl 1891 3 line rifle is as accurate as any rifle I own.(at over 100 years old to boot)
The 91/30 (short rifle)I have shoots well also.
Try to find one with matching serial numbers on at least the bolt and receiver.
Stay away from the Chinese copperwashed ammunition. It is so corrosive and dirty burning that you might as well be shooting blackpowder (it is deadly accurate though :-\). The 200 grain SP (Dark Laquered case) Wolf ammo is dirty but not nearly as corrosive. (It is corrosive no matter what the box says) Wolf Premium stuff seems to be pretty good ammo though. Take a bore light with you, because no matter how ugly the Nagant may be, with a good bore it is a good shooter. Try to get one of the Package deals that come with the Bayonet. Not much use but kinda neat to have.
This isn't mentioned much, but the Tip of the Bayonet is a flathead screwdriver and can be used
to help disassemble the Rifle. They kept the "Chisel Tip" on the non removable folding Bayonet types also for some reason ??? Even the Spike SKS bayunet. These Nagants are great old rifles
and well worth the Surplus prices. I would recommend buying up a bit of the ammo too. Because as S.Sumner is always preaching, Ammo is going to get scarce for all firearms one day.. Probably pretty soon. >:(