357 MAX BARREL

[buckslugger]

 Thinking about wacking off about 4 inches to make it lighter for a go to grab and walk woods gun, any thoughts??
 18 incher with my 2power heavy duplex leupold ahhh sweet little deer hammer

[shaner]

sounds good to me , i wantto chop my new 357 to 18in, for that same reason, some say in improves the accurate and some disagree?? but chopped with the peeps are real nice to just pull up an pop something i got the reamer coming from a guy  to max mine this week, sooooo its gettin there ,

[Datil]

 I keep mine the22 inch, I sure like the Maxie, didn't take me long to
 put the reamer to it, been happy every since, just wish weather would
 clear up so I could do some shooting, marv.

[Pharmboy]

I can't decide. It would be nice to have some ballistic info. Where is Quick when you need him. I suppose if you hand-loaded, which you pretty much have to, then it is just a matter of weight and balance preferance. Problem is, once you whack it off you can't put it back.  If you knoiw what I mean.

If you like to shoot light bullets then you could use faster powder so your barrel could be shorter.   Am I thinking on the right path?

Pharmboy

[quickdtoo]

This link from the FAQ might give you an idea what velocity you'll end up with.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

[Paul5388]

I sent some .360 DWs to a friend who has a 6" T/C .357 Mag.  The loads that clock 1200+ fps in my 22" barrel, clock 900+ in his barrel.  That's close to 20 fps per inch.  That was using 800X, which is a medium burning rate powder.  The only other data I have would compare revolver velocities to the Handi, which may not be too meaningful. 

BTW, my Handi is still a standard chamber.  I really have difficulties in trying to figure out the advantage to reaming it out to Max.  I haven't heard of anyone having a Max that shoots much better than mine and if I want more power, I just get a different Handi (like a .30-30 or .45-70).

I have ordered some Max brass, but I'm just going to trim it to the exact length of my chamber instead of reaming the chamber.  The only reason for that move is being unhappy with so many Starline .360 DWs splitting.  The Max brass is R-P and should be a little stronger brass (I hope!).

[shaner]

thanks for that info paul, thats a good idea on trimmin the brass to fitthe chamber, as for remington bein stronger brass in all my reloading, i found rem brass to be thinner then other brands federal is usually the thickest i have found in rifle  or pistol??

[hellacatcher]

Paul I would think trimming the 360's would work like a champ. Even thoe I am real happy with my Max I wonder if I would have done it if I had realy tried the 360's first. What 360's I have tried have been good, the Max's have been the best.

[Datil]

 Paul I have heard other people talk about starline brass, I have not
 had any with rem Max brass, Havn't loaded much many times ether.
 Take care Marv.

[Paul5388]

When I speak about splits, you probably thought it was the case mouths I was talking about.  Actually that isn't a problem at all.  Here's what's happening.



I sorta highlighted the problem areas in red, but I didn't bother with the center case. 

I've had another one separate since I took this picture.  In all fairness, I've reloaded these quite a few times, but even so, you would think the case mouth would be splitting instead of the wall splitting/cracking. 

[mt3030]

Thinking about wacking off about 4 inches to make it lighter for a go to grab and walk woods gun, any thoughts??
 18 incher with my 2power heavy duplex leupold ahhh sweet little deer hammer

I cut my 30-30 Truck Gun to 18", and I'm sure I lost some velocity. But the easy of carry and movement was worth it. And I have not noticed a big difference in the field.

[Jim Stacy]

A friend in SC and I have been working on his 357 mag barrel for a few months and taking advantage of the long chamber. We took 357 Max brass and belled it slightly , so it would catch the end of the chamber better , and cut and measured to excat chamber length then cut .001 more for safety. Wound up using 180 XTP and 21.3/296 mag rifle primer and have a very potent little close range deer gun. He has shot a couple of deer with it and none too more than 1 step when shot through the chest at less than 100 yards. BIG exit holes !velocity in 1900-2000 range at the muzzle.

[Paul5388]

Yep, that's the way it's supposed to work!  I just can't get that out of the Starline brass.  The loads I normally use are actually fairly mild and I still have to worry about cases cracking.  That's the reason I'm switching to R-P brass.  I only get about 1650 fps with a 180 XTP, but it does shoot 1" at 100 yards!   

[Countryboy]

Does the max give that much more power? If just for deer isn't the mag good enough? I considered doing it but can 38 special still be shot through max or will you get erosion problems

[shaner]

whooooa i see that split now , man thats different? whats causing that to split there???

[Paul5388]

I don't really know why they split in the side like that, but I don't like it.   

I got my Max brass today and trimmed to fit my chamber.  The length ended up being a total length of 1.508", which gives me 1.45" of brass ahead of the rim.  My .360 DW brass is actually 1.39", so I will gain .060" of case by using the Max brass.  I'm having to trim from 1.597", which is a .089" trim.

Since it's only 89 thousandths shorter than Max length, it's easy to see why the reaming job is so easy. 

[shaner]

iam wondering if yu dont have a head spacing problem? to split like that there has to be a gap somewhere letting it move  backwards , ?or something to  split like that ,

[Pharmboy]

Maybe since you are using a cartridge that is exactly the length of your chamber then it may be more critical for the headspacing on the rim. If the bullet is real tight in the chamber then the pressure would be higher in the cone which then could cause a problem inside the brass which would cause it to split.

I have never shot any of my reloads but I try to figure out the physics of this controlled explosion. I am still in training.

Pharmboy

[Paul5388]

Not a headspace problem.  I just checked again and the barrel will lock up on a .001" feeler gauge, but you can't pull it out when it's locked.  Since the case headspaces on the rim and there isn't any barrel to receiver gap, the headspace is right.  Headspace wouldn't cause a crack in the length of the wall of the case, but it probably would cause the head to separate, especially on a bottlenecked case.  I think it's just a bad batch of brass and this new R-P brass should confirm it.

[Badnews Bob]

splits down the side are what my nickle cases do, But I have to admit I don't know how many times I've loaded them, Maybe those .360 cases are work hardining and becomeing brittle like the nickle dose? But then agian none of my brass cases have done this.

[Jim Stacy]

Paul the chamber length you came up with on your Handi 1.45 is the same thing we got. No problems at all with the max brass. Next part of project will be to work on the 150 Remingtons and see what we can run them. I know the 150's out of my 357 Herrett work well at 2100 work well on game .Fun and workable project to make a positive out of a long chamber. I have heard of Handi 357 Mag that will chamber a full 357 Max and yes you can get more performance out of a Max than a 357 mag!

[Paul5388]

Here's what the 3 pieces of R-P Max brass (1.45") after trimming looks like compared with Speer .357 Mag brass (1.215") and Starline .360 DW brass (1.39").



I've been able to load .360 DW brass to 2.15" OAL, so I can probably do the same with this brass.  That means I can use Max loads if I want to and if I can still get something close to that length.

This is what .360 DW brass looks like loaded to 2.15" with the 250 gr FN Beartooth cast bullet.  The three on the left are 180 gr XTPs loaded in the bottom cannelure to 1.93".  On the right is a .357 Mag with 250 gr cast and a .44 Mag for comparison.

[Paul5388]

I did manage to get a few test firings done today.  I had to play with the length just a little to get reliable chambering and still allowing ejection.  A lot of times, a round can be chambered, but it just doesn't want to come back out to have a safely unloaded gun!  [:s]  So, I ended up trimming another .008" to an even 1.50" total length.  That still leaves 1.442" of usable case.

I played with a few loads that have performed well in the old cases.  For some reason, I can't load quite as long as I have in the past, but the 180 gr XTP and 180 gr Rem JHP chambered well at 1.90" with 11.0 gr of 800X and a CCI 400.  The large firing pin hole in the receiver indicates this is about as far as I want to go with this load, at this length.

I had mentioned to George (gstanfield) that I wanted to try some 2400 loads I saw in the old 4/85 Hercules Reloader's Guide.  They're .357 Mag loads, but I figured that would make a good starting place.  The first load was 16.5 gr of Alliant 2400, CCI 400, 125 gr Golden Saber at 1.798" OAL, which is 1.0 gr under the manual max load.  Then I increased to 17.5 gr, which is the manual max load.  Since these had all functioned without a problem and the primers looked good, I full length resized again and upped the load to 18.0 gr.  Everything stills looks good, but I think I'll put these through the chrony before going any further.  If the book hasn't lied too much, these should be well over 2000 fps.

Here's what the brass looks like after being resized 6 times on just the two center pieces (the last time was "neck sized").

[quickdtoo]

Alliant has current data for 2400 in 357Max.

Tim

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gauge=&gtypeid=4&title=Silhouette%20Load

[Paul5388]

Tim,

It looks like I could go up on the 2400 load, however, I think I'll still wait and see what the chrony says about what I'm shooting so far.  Then adjustments could be made, if needed. 

[Paul5388]

The drizzling rain finally subsided the other day and I got out the chrony.  The load, 18.0 gr Alliant 2400, 125 gr Golden Saber, CCI 400 in Max brass that had been trimmed to 1.50" OAL.  The load averaged 2065 fps at 15'. That converts to 2105 fps true MV.  I can do that well or better with normal .357 Mag brass, so I think I'll have to raise the load just a little more and try again! 

[ironduke2]

I just wonder if the splits could come from oversized chmbers in the max. I have the same on my 445SM and its an oversized chamber too. Plus the buldges a little close to the base. Bob

[mt3030]

The drizzling rain finally subsided the other day and I got out the chrony.  The load, 18.0 gr Alliant 2400, 125 gr Golden Saber, CCI 400 in Max brass that had been trimmed to 1.50" OAL.  The load averaged 2065 fps at 15'. That converts to 2105 fps true MV.  I can do that well or better with normal .357 Mag brass, so I think I'll have to raise the load just a little more and try again! 

How about it, Paul. Any up-dates?