Author Topic: Swiss K-31--- Best Surplus Rifle EVER?? (Read 2558 times)

Sandy Flakeman · « **on:** January 23, 2007, 11:26:34 AM »

I started buying several of these (Swiss K-31) a few years back and find them to be the highest quality surplus rifle ever offered for sale in the USA. These rifles are about as accurate as it gets. The surplus GP-11 bullets are superior to any milsurp ammo I've ever seen offered. I also like the name tag under the butt plate of the man who owned it (and took it home with him) when it was issued to him.

I feel these rifles will appreciate several times in value over the next 10 years as they are drying up real fast. The word was slow getting out about these works of art but not any longer. I recall buying Hakims for $100 when everyone thought they were junk. Look at the price on those monsters today!

Anyone own a K-31? What do you think of the K-31 and the potential to appreciate in value? Total production was around 530,000 from 1933 to 1958 and Switzerland was the only country to use them besides the Vatican. These are very unique rifles.

Opinions appreciated.

Almtnman · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2007, 11:40:22 AM »

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2007, 12:25:26 PM »

Quote

I recall buying Hakims for $100 when everyone thought they were junk. Look at the price on those monsters today!

And I bet at that time you could also buy a small pickup for less than $10,000 and a bottle of water didn't cost a dollar. Inflation does not sleep and it applies to milsurps as well. If you're lookin to buy milsurps as an investment you're in for some dissapointement (excluding certian ultra rare examples).

Shure in 20 yrs K-31's may be trading for $500 but I also bet that a Big Mac value meal will cost $12 busck as well. A lot of what people interpret as apprecaition in milsurps is nothing more than plain OL inflation.

At 29 yrs old I laugh when I think of that $1200 a month I'll draw from SS in 40+ years

jack19512 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2007, 03:12:26 PM »

Although I have a couple K31's and like them a lot, for me my best surplus buys have been my Mausers. My K98 and Yugoslavian 70's production mil-surplus ammo is more accurate than either of my K31's and Swiss ammo. Not by much, but never the less.

Sandy Flakeman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2007, 03:49:32 PM »

Mausers were made in the TENS of MILLIONS. Swiss K-31's around 530,000.

The only Mauser, in my opinion, that is even CLOSE to the K-31 in accuracy is the Swedish M 96.
The M 96 is the finest Mauser rifle ever made. In my opinion of course.

On the inflation issue, you are correct. I purchased 3 Hakims for around $100 each in 1991. They are selling for close to $700 today.
There are many stocks that do not have this return on investment. The K-31 is one rifle worth owning as an investment in my opinion. The price has already risen substantially in the past few months and the quantity & quality available is dwindling.

jack19512 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:17:09 PM »

Quote from: Sandy Flakeman on January 23, 2007, 03:49:32 PM

The only Mauser, in my opinion, that is even CLOSE to the K-31 in accuracy is the Swedish M 96.

That only proves either one or even two things. You havn't had the right Mauser or you don't know anything about Mausers. I can prove you wrong about at least one of them. Not trying to start an argument or anything just stating a fact.

Here is a pic of a 3 shot group from my pre 1893 Turkish Mauser from 100 yards. The rifle was shooting about a foot high so I had to install a taller front sight.

Here is a 3 shot group from my K98 at 100 yards with my handloads. I had a pic of a group with the K98 and surplus ammo but can't find it. That group was almost as good as my handloads. Let's see your groups with your K31.

Almtnman · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:26:17 PM »

Thread hijacked!

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:29:01 PM »

Quote

The only Mauser, in my opinion, that is even CLOSE to the K-31 in accuracy is the Swedish M 96.
The M 96 is the finest Mauser rifle ever made. In my opinion of course.

I've owned them all Swedes, Swiss, Russians, Frenchies, Japs ECT ECT I've come to the conclusion that given comparable condition and using quality ammo there are no real stand out winners in the accuracy department. Altough I do give the edge to the French MAS 36 rifles. I've owned several nice Swedes I found nothing magical about thier accuracy rather the contrary they were quite average.

There may be people ASKING $700 for Hakims but the only one of several on Gunbroker that actually has bids is only priced up to $355. The others ranging from $750 to $550 Have no bidding action whatsoever. I don't recall recall a Hakim breaking $500 on the very fast Gunboards trader yet either. The Hakim's cousin the AG42 will on occasion but only if in VERY good condition

jack19512 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:41:28 PM »

Quote from: Almtnman on January 23, 2007, 04:26:17 PM

Is this a K-31 thread or a Mauser thread?

Excuse me

And hopefully you will excuse anyone else that replies to this thread and goes a little off course by voicing some opinions.

Just wanting to let the original poster know, if he doesn't already, that there are more mil-surplus rifles worth looking at also.

jack19512 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:48:28 PM »

I find there isn't a lot of difference in the accuracy between a lot of my mil-surplus rifles either. Some are more accurate than others. I have a M/N M38 that is more accurate than my K31's with my handloads.

Almtnman · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:55:33 PM »

Quote from: jack19512 on January 23, 2007, 04:41:28 PM

Quote from: Almtnman on January 23, 2007, 04:26:17 PM
Thread Hijacked!

Excuse me And hopefully you will excuse anyone else that replies to this thread and goes a little off course by voicing some opinions. Just wanting to let the original poster know, if he doesn't already, that there are more mil-surplus rifles worth looking at also.

Well excussssse meeeee.

You have the thread, run with it, I'm outta here!

jack19512 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2007, 05:10:18 PM »

[/quote]

Well excussssse meeeee. It would be nice for a change to have a thread about a certain mi-surp and talk about it and not about every mil-surp out there.
[/quote]

Yea, that sounds like a good idea. Why don't we just severely limit the amount of knowledge we want to share with someone. Like I said, my only intent was to let the original poster know there are a lot of good buys when it comes to mil-surplus rifles not limited to the K31.

I don't know the extent of the original posters knowledge when it comes to these surplus rifles but I don't think the additional info will harm him or anyone else. Take a nap and hopefully tomorrow you will feel a little better.

I never dreamed that my disagreeing with someone elses opinion would devastate you.

Casull · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2007, 06:28:25 PM »

Quote

Yea, that sounds like a good idea. Why don't we just severely limit the amount of knowledge we want to share with someone. Like I said, my only intent was to let the original poster know there are a lot of good buys when it comes to mil-surplus rifles not limited to the K31.

Almtnman has a point. The original thread was a request for opinions on the K31, not mausers. We all know that you love your mausers (heck I own a couple myself), but you don't need to tell us about them anytime K31's come up (I've seen at least a couple of other times this has occurred). Seen that same group shown a couple of other times also (you might want to shoot a new one).

jack19512 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2007, 07:40:47 PM »

Quote from: Casull on January 23, 2007, 06:28:25 PM

Almtnman has a point. The original thread was a request for opinions on the K31, not mausers. We all know that you love your mausers (heck I own a couple myself), but you don't need to tell us about them anytime K31's come up (I've seen at least a couple of other times this has occurred). Seen that same group shown a couple of other times also (you might want to shoot a new one).

I apologize. I didn't mean to upset anyone. That was not my intent. I personally thought someone was overreacting a little. I have over 30 various mil-surplus rifles and I love them all, not just my Mauser's.

You see the same group from these rifles because I keep the pics for reference, not just for myself but for others that might be interested in whatever value they might provide. I do have pics from my K31's too. I apologize that you are tired of seeing them but there are some that might be new here and they haven't seen them before.

If I shot some new groups they wouldn't be any different than the ones I have posted unless I change something, I do by the way shoot more groups, but like I said they wouldn't tell you anything that the original pics don't tell you.

To be honest with you, I couldn't tell you how many threads I have started and had others chime in and hijack my thread to the point you wouldn't even recognize it anymore. But you won't find one instance where I took it personally and got ill with anyone. There are probably very, very few on the forum that hasn't strayed off course to some extent on someone else's thread.

If you feel this way I am sure there are others that feel this way also. I have enjoyed Graybeards forums and have learned a lot while here. Not wanting to upset anyone any further I will dismiss myself from the forums and wish everyone well.

TrenchMud · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2007, 05:26:06 AM »

Every one is going to have their own favorites, But a model 1927 Nagant from Finland
Will shoot circles around a K-31

. In all Honesty, most of the Milsurps from the first half of the last Century will shoot better than most shooters can shoot them. Not that any one was better than
all the others though. Some are really Ugly and unwieldy but will still shoot MOA groups. Of all the milsurps I have or have had, My favorite is still the model 1891 Argentine Mauser, Is it better than
"All the Others"? No, I just like it more

With the exception of some of the Carcano rifles, I think they are all Great fun ! Why even argue the fact of one being better than all the rest? Enjoy them all !
As far as Value of these firearms, It is only as high as you can find someone that is willing to pay !
Books or wesites may say what these old weapons are "WORTH" such & such amount, but if no one is willing to pay that, they must not really be worth that amount. Or They may be worth that amount
and you just get to hang on to your "Valuable Relic" for a long, long time before someone decides to buy it..
I do not buy them for the return I may get later, I buy them to enjoy !

Cement Man · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2007, 07:11:26 AM »

Last year I was smitten by the K-31s. Never paid much attention to them until last year. As with most Milsurps, I can't get over how much rifle you can get for such a reasonable price. I ended up with four of them.
As far as appreciated investment, (I have owned a variety of these "oldies but goodies" off and on for over 50 years) I don't consider them anything exceptional. Sure, you will find someone who will pay a pretty price for one, but in general, I would agree with Krochus that they tend to run with inflation. There are always exceptions, but I don't think our run of the mill imported milsurps are spectacularly good, or bad, investments for that matter. I once took some estimated prices of some of the imports that I have had over the years, what I recall paying for them vs. current market value, and I believe I guesstimated it at 4% - 6% annual appreciation. Certainly a lot of room for variances there, but I think you have to average everything out. Condition will leverage the value as always. I think American milsurps in some cases (M1 Carbines?) have climbed higher and faster, especially fine or rare examples.
I kind of thought K-31's might grow in value a bit more, because they are unique and high quality, and there is a smaller number of them. Also, the metal, at least, is generally exceptionally good. But I'm not planning my retirement around my having four of them.
Hey guys, just one personal comment from me. Everyone of you in this thread - I have enjoyed your inputs and learned something from you. I hate to see Jack go like this, as he is enthusiastic and knowledgeable, and has shared a lot through his projects and pictures. There are sure more important things to squabble about. Maybe today would be a better day if we sucked it up and invited him to stay.

TrenchMud · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2007, 07:29:33 AM »

Absolutely ! Stay !
Jeez man, my mind wanders from point to point most of the time too when I am answering other folks posts! Not that I am trying to "Hijack" anyones thread though. Dang fella's, If I start to ramble occationally, Don't pay attention to me ! Just go to the next post! I ain't as young as I used to be !
I surely ain't gonna get hateful to someone else for doing it ! I can't be the one who casts the first stone, It will bounce back and hit me squarely between the eyes if I do !!

jgalar · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2007, 02:43:35 AM »

Swiss K-31--- Best Surplus Rifle EVER??
I don't see that anyone is hijacking or going astray on the topic. The original poster suggests the K-31 is the best, others disagree.
As for accuracy, my most accurate is a ratty old Turkish Mauser that I bought for $55

bluebayou · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:51:15 PM »

Gee, I thought that with the question mark in the title that the original poster was asking a question and expecting replies. Jack prefers the Mauser. He answered the question.

A more valid question to argue would be: Is the thread about "the best surplus rifle EVER?" or "how much will my surplus rifle increase in value?"

NRAJOE · « **Reply #19 on:** January 26, 2007, 10:45:43 AM »

I have 2 K31's
A walnut and a beech...

I'd say for the price and accuracy they are the best out there.

Prices aren't super high yet but they are steadily climbing from when they 1st hit the shores.

Up from $79 to almost $200 in perfect condition.

jh45gun · « **Reply #20 on:** January 26, 2007, 02:18:04 PM »

Lets look at averages for the guns that we see here from over seas the Swiss and the Swede rifles on the average have been better taken care of and have not seen the ravages of war which in my opinion means they have not been abused either with the exception of the stock wear on the Swiss guns yet the metal and bores on most you can tell they were taken care of. All the rest is a crap shoot with the exception of the Finn Mosins they took good care of their guns too. While some turks and Mosins may shoot well others are ony average as are their bores. Get a good South American Mauser in 7mm they are also great but to find them in good condition these days is tough they are either pristine examples or junkers. Some of the Argentine Mausers in 7.65 are very nice and good shooters but they are hard to come by now also. Right now the Swiss guns have to be the best buy out there with out getting burned with a bad one. While that could happen I have not heard of any one yet getting one that did not shoot well. Still you take your chances on no matter what you buy.I bought a 7.62 Enfield a few years ago and the bore looked good as did the crown yet its groups were average at best and since the 308 is such a inherently accurate cartridge I was pretty depressed with it. So while the bore looked good it probably was worn enough that standard 308 diameter bullets did not shoot well in it.

1911crazy · « **Reply #21 on:** January 28, 2007, 02:29:42 AM »

I like them all but lets say the swiss k31's were never used in a war, they shot better quality ammo and had very low milage. On the other hand were comparing them to a car with over 100,000+ miles on them that were shot with the worst ammo that we could possibly use and probably weren't cleaned that much either. I give the ugly betty rifles a big plus that they still can shoot good. I do have many swiss k31's and the swiss 7,5mm match grade ammo stashed away too. I shoot my Hakim & swede mauser more than anything else lately but my new russian saiga is moving up very quickly in popularity.

qajaq59 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 02, 2007, 01:59:47 AM »

I have a K31 that is as accurate as I could want, but EVER is a long time. So no, I think you're a bit off on that one. However it'll certainly do until a better one comes along.

jh45gun · « **Reply #23 on:** February 02, 2007, 06:18:59 PM »

One thing about the K31 is the neatness factor they are just plain neat, Cool rifles. Yea I know there was the Ross and the Model 95 but the Ross from what I have read had problems with the action and could not tolerate dirt the 95 Steyer the onlyammo that is available is old wartime surplus plus due to the short light carbine configuration it has a reputation of being hard on the shoulder. The k31 on the other hand ammo is available and it does not have the action problems the Ross did so out of the 3 straight pulls we are familular with the K31 beats the others hands down.

Fazak · « **Reply #24 on:** February 04, 2007, 05:18:03 AM »

23 rounds of the Sierra 150 grain spitzer over 42 grains of H4895 from my Swiss K31,... 100 yards, fired into 2.3" as fast as I could charge the mag, get the crosshairs on target and touch it off. None of my Mausers will duplicate this. The barrel got hot enough for a mirage to appear through the scope and as the barrel heated up the shots began to walk down and left. With a cool barrel, MOA is no problem with this rifle.

jh45gun · « **Reply #25 on:** February 04, 2007, 07:35:09 AM »

Good shooting out of a hot barrel rapid fire. My Swede will shoot accurately too with out letting the barrel cool down but none of the other milsurps I had would. That is why the Turks and the Mosins went out the door and the Swede and the Swiss stayed in the gun rack.