Author Topic: Rimfire Sights?? (Read 16779 times)

MI.sabot · « **on:** January 28, 2007, 12:04:22 PM »

MSP:

After reading the Model 60 owners manual I have a couple questions if you don't mind:

1.) Windage adjustment states to tap the Dovetail.
They're talking about the notched rear sight, not the ramp it rides up/down on....right?
What am I tapping it with? Just seems like I'm bending something in doing so.
And will I be able to tap it back in the reverse direction if need be?

2.) It indicated that it was for 22lr high velocity cartidges...not hyper velocity.
Are the CCI Velocitors (1,400+ fps) considered hyper-v or are they only referring to the Stingers at 1,600+ fps.

3.) What kind of accuracy can I reasonably expect with open sights at 50 yds? or scoped at 50 yds?
I realize there's a need to try different brands to see what it likes.

4.) Just curious if you've scoped yours and if so what you're using.

Thanks

Georgian · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2007, 05:54:57 PM »

MI, I've been shooting 60's since I was a kid, and they are extremely accurate. At 25 yards, I can put 17 rnds from my 60 into a quart oil bottle easily. You can get smaller groups, but I was just amazed that I got all 17 rounds in there. Mine is an old manufacture with the longer tube magazine. I absolutely love the Model 60; it has to be one of the best .22's out there. The sights easily stay on target and you shouldnt have any problem hitting stuff out to 50 yards. If you think it may need a windage adjustment, use something that is brass when contacting with the side of the base, that way you wont be at risk for scratching something. Just give it a light tap or two, and check it. Also, the Sportster has the same exact rear sight as a model 60. I have never had to adjust the sight on my 60 except for elevation. For my purposes, mine shoots fine on the 2nd notch. I'm gonna try to get back out Tuesday and see if my adjustments to the Sportster helped any.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2007, 06:02:52 PM »

TOTW makes as excellent sight drift for $4....

Tim

Brass Sight Drift

MI.sabot · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2007, 02:17:18 AM »

Quick:

I am having difficulty trying to decipher how that sight drift might work.
Could you please explain further.

Georgian:

Still confused as to tapping the rear sight base.
If you're tapping the arm carrying the dovetail, the elevation ramp still lies within the groove of the arm.
Therein lies my confusion. There just doesn't seem to be anything made to be tapped/slid in a left to right motion.

Hopefully the thing is right on and I won't need to be concerned with a windage adjustment in the first place.

Thanks,

MSP Ret · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2007, 03:19:54 AM »

The rear sight is connected into the top of the barrel by what is called a "dovetail". That is a groove cut into the barrel that is wider at the bottom than at the top. The rear sight has a corresponding but upside down lug near the front bottom part of the sight. That lug slides into the groove (dovetail) cut into the barrel and that is what is pushed or "drifted" right or left to change the grouping on the target. Move the rear sight the way you want the group to go on the target and move the front sight the opposite way you want the group to go on the target. Just believe me for now and figure it out later on a piece of paper with a pencil and ruler. To move or "drift" the rear sight place a piece of metal, usually called "drift", firmly on the side of the lug on the rear sight and tap it with a hammer. You can use a nailset but something out of brass is preferred since it will not bang up or scratch the lug. Try tapping the lug gently at first and increase until you get it to move just a bit, shoot it to see how much it moved the group and then do it all over again until your group is centered on your target right to left. The rear sight can be raised or lowered to raise or lower the group also, this is usually done with the cheaper rimfire rear sights by gently raising the sight with your fingers and placing the small piece of metal called the "elevator" forward or backward in the slot cut in the sight. This "elevator" keeps the sight in the position you want. Remember to move the rear sight in the direction you want the group to go, move it left and the group goes left, move it right and the group goes right. Raise it up the group goes up, move it down and the group goes down. If you have to move the front sight the movements are reversed, move the front sight left, the group goes right etc. Start with the rear sight and good luck..any further questions just ask and if you really get hung up we can do a phone instructional class in sight adjustment 101....<><....

I may be taking this for granted but is the rear sight held on by the dovetail and lug that I described or is it screwed on? I do recall some older real cheap guns that had the rear sights screwed onto the barrels.Those cheap guns had no windage adjustment on the rear sight at all. Those guns had to have the front sight moved left to right for windage. What a cheap and rinky-dink setup thay was. Please be sure to let us know and looking forward to you reply, Thanks...<><....

MI.sabot · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2007, 04:00:30 AM »

MSP:

The Marlin 60 is as you described, dovetailed not screwed on.

So I'm tapping it where the rear sight connects with the barrel...right?
Not the rear sight blade/fin itself!

I'll have to look at it when I get home but isn't the elevator ramp attached to the barrel separately.
This is what I can't figure out. Wouldn't the elevator ramp impede any left/right tapping movement?

Georgian · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2007, 07:02:30 AM »

The elevator ramp will not impede the drifting of the rear sight base, but you may want to remove it while you are tapping so that it wont stratch the top of the barrel when you are drifting the sight itself. Could someone run through elevators 101 for me? lol. As far as I can remember, moving the elevator up lowers point of impact and moving it down brings the point of impact up. But I am not sure if that is right.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2007, 07:05:55 AM »

On a rear sight, up moves POI up, down moves it down.

Left moves POI left and .... Front sights are just the opposite,

Tim

tallyho · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:07:05 AM »

Maybe these pics will help make it clearer:

Brass punch and Sportster rear sight:

I think the printing on the pic below may be too small to read (at least it is for me!) Anyway, what it says is:
"Tap at this point with the brass punch" (arrow indicates that point)
"Tapping here will move the sight (and the group) to the left - it is not necessary, but it wouldn't hurt to take the elevator out before tapping.

Like Georgian said above, The elevator ramp will not impede the drifting of the rear sight base, but you may want to remove it while you are tapping so that it wont stratch the top of the barrel when you are drifting the sight itself.

Gently, or using force 'as required' tap the end of the brass punch with a mallet. This is, as previously mentioned, a trial-and-error method. Each time you move the sight, it will be necessary to shoot the gun again for feedback on whether it was moved sufficiently. If you can do it at the range, it would definitely save some fussin'

THIS ADDED:
I forgot to mention (and this is learned from experience

) one should apply a small piece of tape across the barrel in front of the sight and make a mark where the pointy end is before starting to tap it... otherwise you won't actually know if, or how much the tapping moves the sight.

Cheers
Kerry

p.s. it seems this 'Walmart' thread has been 'drifted' into sight adjustments...

oops!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:44:42 AM »

Quote

p.s. it seems this 'Walmart' thread has been 'drifted' into sight adjustments... oops!

Not any more!!

Tim

MI.sabot · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:48:54 AM »

Tallyho:

Those pics certainly clears things up. Thanks for going out of your way to post them.

Thanks to everyone else for your input and patience.

MI.sabot · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2007, 03:26:24 AM »

Makes total sense now that I had a chance to look at the sights once I got home.
I thought the elevator ramp was somehow attached to the barrel thereby hindering any lateral movement when tapping the sight base.
I didn't realize that it simply pulls away from the sight base. ROOKIE!

One very last question though.
I did notice on the sight base arm, about midway between the dovetail and sight fin, there is a horizontal line/crack one each side of the grooved arm that straddles the elevator ramp.

Does this just allow for flexibility in the sight base arm as it rides up the elevator or is this possibly a defect?

MSP Ret · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2007, 08:01:26 AM »

That is a new on on me, I would have to examine it before I could hazard any quess, perhaps if other new owners with the Sportsters with iron sights could check thier rear sights and report we might be able to clear this up. One think I do believe, if it is a defect and the sight breaks at that point I am sure that CS will send you a new sight.

Quick, thanks for posting the fine pictures. Do you know if all H&R's with iron sights will be coming through with these dovetailed sights now or just the Sportsters and perhaps the centerfire ironsighted barrels will still be equipped with the Williams sets? Any ifo....<><....

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2007, 08:15:53 AM »

MSP, Tweren't me that posted pics, that was Tallyho!!

Dunno, about centerfire rifles in general, but someone called a while back and was told that H&R was going to be using their proprietary sights on their rifles again, dunno if they meant the older style with the screw adjustable elevator or the rimfire style in Kerry's pic, but the pic of the 45 Colt Carbine appears to be similar. My perception of "proprietary" sight was the style in this pic which appears to be on the rifles at H&R's web site, with the exception of the Carbine.

.500S&W Handi

.45 Colt Carbine

Tim

tallyho · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2007, 11:57:01 AM »

FYI guys - I added a pic to my earlier posting that I only just remembered is (at least for me) an important step in adjusting these sights...

Cheers
Kerry

MSP Ret · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2007, 12:38:30 PM »

Great job Kerry and Thanks for all the work on it.

Attn: MI.sabot, a little more info I missed that you had inquired about. I have a Simmons 4X on one and the other has the standard issue iron sights on it. I know the Simmons is an inexpensive scope and I think it is a ".22 Mag" model. It has worked great for a couple of years now and I like it very much....<><....

tallyho · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2007, 01:37:40 PM »

Thanks Andy,

But I'm inclined to think that if it is fun, can it be considered work?

MI.sabot · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:58:19 PM »

Tallyho:

Thanks once again for adding that last sight pic because I think you just answered the question in my last post.

I've noticed what appears to be a horizontal crack on both sides of the sight arm, about midway where it straddles the elevator.
I was wondering if this was by design to add flexibility to the arm as it rides up the elevator or if this was a defect.
From a couple responses I've received and after looking at your pic makes me believe it's a defect.

I'll take it back to the store, look at a couple NIB, and make a final determination.

Thanks again.

MI.sabot · « **Reply #18 on:** February 02, 2007, 04:59:36 AM »

This is a follow-up to the line/crack(?) in the rear sight arm:

I called Marlin's cutomer service and they suggested to send it back, which I did.

Anyways I looked at a total of 5 NIB Model 60's between Bass Pro Shops and Gander Mountain.
Two had the line/crack(?), one at each store, the remaining three - no lines, no cracks(?), looked just like the one pictured above.

I'll update this again after the gun is returned and let you all know if Marlin determined if this was a defect or not.
At any rate, if this is a defect, there's more of them out there than just the one I bought.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2007, 05:23:34 AM »

Happy it worked out for you MI.sabot. Did you send the entire gun back or just the rear sight? I am sure they would want to know that you checked and found more out on the shelves with the same marks/defect. Be sure to keep us posted on the outcome....<><....

MI.sabot · « **Reply #20 on:** February 02, 2007, 06:27:05 AM »

I sent the whole gun back. I found a couple small cosmetic flaws that I otherwise wouldn't have bothered with.
But since the gun was being returned I figured they might as well take care of these too.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #21 on:** February 02, 2007, 06:54:33 AM »

did you ask for the free trigger job whicle it was there? If not call and POLITELY explain that the trigger was heavy and rough (if it was of course) and ask they adjust/tune your trigger for frre down to about 3-4 ponds or as low as they can go. Tell them the trigger was to heavy and be clear you only want it if it's free, otherwise it's about $15-$20, unless you want to pay for it of course. I suggest politely asking for the free trigger job explaining that your trigger was to heavy and a bit rough. The other alternative is doing it yourself but as long as it is at the factory perhaps they will give you a free trigger job. Of course your trigger may be fine. I understand the newer guns like yours are coming through with great triggers....<><....

MI.sabot · « **Reply #22 on:** February 02, 2007, 07:35:15 AM »

No I didn't. Never really thought of it to be honest with you.
Actually I never pulled the trigger to see what the pull was like.

Maybe I'll shoot them an e-mail and see if they'll be kind enough to adjust the trigger to the 3-4 pound pull if it isn't already.
Maybe they'll be kind enough to do it since I've gone through the inconvenience of having to send the gun back to them.

Thanks for the suggestion.

JerryKo · « **Reply #23 on:** November 17, 2007, 06:46:24 PM »

Doubt that they fix the trigger if not mentioned. I sent one back to the factory for a barrel. It was my first handi rifle. I didn't know about the free trigger job until finding this site. Any way it wasn't until after buying a few more that I realized just how bad the trigger was. Breaks just under seven pounds. Even with a four X scope I can see the cross hair move. Like I said all I ordered was another barrel and it came back with just a new barrel. I'll know better the next time it goes in.

I'd give them a call and give them your serial number so that they will get it done. Good Luck!

JerryKo

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** November 17, 2007, 06:54:55 PM »

A little late Jerry, look at the date of the post you're replying to.

Tim

JerryKo · « **Reply #25 on:** November 17, 2007, 07:02:33 PM »

Ops!

Oh well, just trying to help a guy out. Did it get it?

JerryKo

quickdtoo · « **Reply #26 on:** November 17, 2007, 07:11:29 PM »

I dunno!