Author Topic: 444M handi rifle (Read 2857 times)

longball · « **on:** January 29, 2007, 02:20:23 PM »

We hunt in MS and primative weapon season allows us to use centain guns among them and the most affordable is the hadi rifle. The Buffalo Classic is just too long. I am thinking about getting the 444M in the handi rifle. What calliber would you buy(it has to be larger than 38). I am leaning toward the 444M. The 45/70 in the Buffalo Classic is a good looking gun but to me is too long. How does the handi rifle shoot(MOA).Our season is a split but totals 4 weeks. We typically hunt food plots with shots @ 200-300- yds. We are only shooting deer. What caliber would you shoot? and why? I am not interested in a "brush gun" but one that would allow the longest rage flattest shooting round available.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2007, 02:25:40 PM »

Welcome aboard! That's easy, the .45-70 Handi with 22" barrel, no ifs, ands or buts!!

I wouldn't count on the 444 Marlin being a great shooter, it's gonna have the obsolete 1:38" twist rate, if they're overbore like the 44mag, it's gonna be a real disappointment to a lot of folks. $:-\$

Tim

poncaguy · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2007, 02:28:07 PM »

I have the regular Handi in 45-70, and with the Hornady Lever ammo, shoots 1" and less 100 yard groups. I don't know how it would do at 300, but anything less, the 45-70 would definately be my choice.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2007, 02:29:51 PM »

Yep 22" .45-70 great little rifle easy to carry and shoot, Serious deer medicine.

I can hit inside 2" at a hundred no problem.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2007, 02:31:02 PM »

Here's a previous MS thread.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,109588.msg1098327205.html#msg1098327205

bigjeepman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2007, 02:31:38 PM »

Welcome longball ... !!!!

Boy did you ever come to the right place ... just listen to these guys ... they know what they are talking about.

Good shooting when you get that new rifle ...

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2007, 02:45:44 PM »

Here's a 19 minute video on long shots with the .45-70 by reflex264, he shoots a 350gr Hornady FP at 2100fps for his long range stuff.

Tim

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3433415096555745370&hl=en

http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=16390&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

longball · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2007, 03:05:30 PM »

Thanks for the replies. I have been very fortunate to have very good places to hunt. We have lots of deer down here. We typicaly hunt with overbore guns and are used to the flat shooting guns. We have limited knowledge of the 444M, 45/70, and calibers such as this. I will purchase a "primative weapon" according to MS law in the near future. What caliber ands gun would you purchase if you lived here. Keep in mind the only thing you would be hunting would be deer.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2007, 03:42:14 PM »

Quote from: longball on January 29, 2007, 03:05:30 PM

What caliber ands gun would you purchase if you lived here. Keep in mind the only thing you would be hunting would be deer.

For your primitive weapons season, the 45-70!!!!

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2007, 04:04:32 PM »

If you're going to shoot 200 to 300 yds.,I would have a good rangefinder along with a sheet of paper stating how high to hold for the yardage.With a 100 yd. zero you'll have to hold about 220" high at 500.Look up the ballistics on the 45 70 along with the other big bore's,and shoot them at long range before you go hunting.At the longer range's the bullet can drop a few inches every 10 yds.The 45 70 is probably the most consitant shooter in the Handi lineup,and is very accurate at 100 yds. Digger

nomosendero · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2007, 04:28:21 PM »

Yes, the 45-70. Do they allow you to use a scope?

olbiffer · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:10:20 AM »

ditto what quick said! you just cant go wrong with the 45-70

T.

knight0334 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:15:43 AM »

Hey.. If nobody mentioned it already, I suggest the 22" 45/70... lol

longball · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:54:49 AM »

scopes are allowed with no restrictions on magnification--for some reason they still call it "primitive weapon season"

Ranger J · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2007, 03:25:53 AM »

Get the 45/70. Also be able to accurately determine your distance if you are going to shoot 2 or 3 hundred yards. I am afraid none of the larger caliber bullets that are legal are going to be ‘flat shooters’. That is why it will be important to know how much your bullet will drop at a given distance. There is no problem with the 45/70 killing deer at a distance. Remember this was one of the guns used to kill buffalo at a good distance.
RJ

longball · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2007, 03:19:23 PM »

Sounds like 45/70 all the way. I was looking at the Hornady Leverution ammo ballistics of the 444M and it shoots flatter. What about the 1:38 twist. I do not really understand the twist. Can anyone explain the pros/cons.

longball · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2007, 03:24:41 PM »

Sorry for the additional reply. I realize that I will not have the flat shooter that we are used to--just want to get you guys expierence and thoughts.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2007, 03:25:42 PM »

The Hornady ammo is made for the 1:20 twist of the XLR, Marlin, owner of H&R, for some reason decided to make the Handi .444 a 1:38" twist for who knows what reason. If the .444 is overbore like the 44mag was or still is, it's not gonna make a lot of happy customers. $:-\$

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2007, 03:31:42 PM »

Neither one of em is flat shooting, but at least the .45-70 is proven extremely accurate in a Handi or BC, the same can't be said for the past .44s. I was looking forward to getting a .444, I already have 3 .45-70 H&Rs and a .45-120 BC, but after they said it would be the slow twist, I cancelled that idea........... at least until someone else plays guinea pig and slugs one of them!!

Tim

longball · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2007, 03:35:23 PM »

Thanks Quick! Glad I found this site--You guys are opening me eyes. Just looking for info and thanks for your replies.

longball · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2007, 03:47:52 PM »

Now I am looking at the 45/70 in the handi rifle. The BC is a good looking gun but is too long--hard to move in and out of a stand or even a truck. I was caught up in the ballistics of the 444M. I would still like for someone to explain the twist and the published ballistics of both callibers

MSP Ret · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:13:12 PM »

please pardon me for chiming in late but ----THE 45/70 is the way to go!!!!....<><....

longball · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:21:42 PM »

The 444m must not exist. Kidding! I thought that a few of you guys would chime in about 444M(in favor). I guess it is overated. Once again thanks for the feedback.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:43:14 PM »

Here's some on it...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/444Marlin.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/marlin_336_444_1895.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~hwsportsman/444Marlin.html

If I were living in MS, I'd be using my .405 Winchester Target with it's 28" barrel, but you could also have a BC barrel cut to 26"-28"!!

Tim

longball · « **Reply #24 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:52:18 PM »

Quick--you must be the man! Thanks for the info. This comp. can't handle the info--locks up when you have too much info going. I will look into the info in the morning. Seems my logic was way off base! Like I said I am in over my head and thanks for the info.

aulrich · « **Reply #25 on:** January 31, 2007, 09:07:00 AM »

Why the change in the twist the 1/38 should be sutable for your typical 240-300 44 cal bullet, as long as it shot the Hornady 265 fp or the 250 Partition HG's I am not sure how dissapointed a guy could be.

As long as it was not over bored

quickdtoo · « **Reply #26 on:** January 31, 2007, 09:17:33 AM »

The same reason Marlin switched to the 1:20" twist rate!! Combine that with the typical overbore problem, and it's not good!! But as has been pointed out by the .445SM fellas, the extra powder may be able to upset the bullet enough to make it fill the bore and shoot well, something the .44mag can't do due to powder capacity limitation.

Tim

Quote

A possible limiting factor to the use of heavy bullets in some .444 rifles is the slow 1 in 38" rifling used in older .444 Marlin rifles. Such slow rifling may not stabilize bullets heavier than 270 grains. Marlin has since changed to 1 in 20" rifling, which solved that problem.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/444Marlin.htm

longball · « **Reply #27 on:** January 31, 2007, 01:32:35 PM »

Quick--please explain the problems with the twist. I understand the difference in the twist rates but do not understand the technical info behind it. It seems awful hign compared to other calibers.

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 31, 2007, 03:32:23 PM »

I have one of the older 444's and it shoots my hand loaded hornady 265's as well as my 1:20 444p it just will not shoot the heavy cast 330's I have for444p as well. My 4570 shoots great and having both I would opt for the 4570 & hand loads.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #29 on:** January 31, 2007, 04:06:27 PM »

Quote from: longball on January 31, 2007, 01:32:35 PM

Quick--please explain the problems with the twist. I understand the difference in the twist rates but do not understand the technical info behind it. It seems awful hign compared to other calibers.

Here's some readin for ya....

http://www.lostriverballistic.com/LRB/DocsCorner-Twist.cfm