tc encore accuracy?

[nomosendero]

Not Totally Nomo, you are 5 headed while Davemuzz is six headed !!!

Good point! 

[Keith L]

Point me to where these experts have posted, and CVA, that says it all.

Says it all about Bergara barrels, which makes barrels for the CVA & TC with the same standards for
both, wow what logic!!!

BTW, I will probably order a Bergara MZ tube for my Encore, the TC tube just doesn't do as it should.
I have sent it back once & they removed the burr at the QLA/rifling junction, but it still is not up to par. I may send it back again, haven't decided yet. 

Oh, & this just in!! Check out the thread by Krochus, 30-06 Bergara barrel range results. What was this about
just CVA ?  I have a funny feeling that the rifling in this barrel did not know which frame it was on.   

First, I am quite pleased that the early reports from Krochus indicate his barrel is a shooter.  I hope it does nothing but get better with experience and age.  It is still an early report, though, and not likely going to get me to become a CVA lover.

Second, Bergara seems to be quite connected with CVA.  CVA claims they make their barrels.  My guess is that there is a further business connection.  That is fine, even the way it should be.  But with all the problems I saw with their guns a few years ago I am reluctant to change my opinion about them any time soon.  That is the nature of business.  A company earns its reputation.  There is some earning to go.  Seemed like every time I went to the range with one of my smokepoles someone would have a problem child for me to look at.  CVA had the lead, with the Spanish Traditions models close behind.  I assumed from the Bergara web page designed to put TC down and elevate the potential buyer's opinion in CVA, that they are working on improving their image.  I hope there is something behind that, and they are better.  But I am not required to spend my money on the proof.

So that is my opinion, and one I have as much a right to as you have to yours.  It could change, but it will take more than one or two folks that like them.

[nomosendero]

Of course you are entitled to your opinions like anyone else. Some companies have upper end & lower end products & in this case the Bargara barrels only involve the upper end.

Car companies have done this for years. I drive alot of GM vehicles, even though cars in the past that my buddies have bought like the Vega (I am dating myself) & Chevette were junk. But I put 316,000-
miles on one pick-up & my current Z71 has 260,000+ miles with only some recent issues. I also used a couple of Fleetwoods that I would buy from an old Lawyer after he ran them a couple of years and they were great. And this inspite of the fact that the low end GM stuff is still bad. Scope companies & others do the same with low end & high end products.

By the same token the low end CVA products have no bearing on this discussion, but I understand your feelings anyway.

[Davemuzz]

.....in this case the Bargara barrels only involve the upper end.

How is this "only upper end" determined? What is the criteria? Who determined this criteria?

Dave

[nomosendero]

The same way it is determined any other time.

[Mac11700]

Point me to where these experts have posted, and CVA, that says it all.

Says it all about Bergara barrels, which makes barrels for the CVA & TC with the same standards for
both, wow what logic!!!

BTW, I will probably order a Bergara MZ tube for my Encore, the TC tube just doesn't do as it should.
I have sent it back once & they removed the burr at the QLA/rifling junction, but it still is not up to par. I may send it back again, haven't decided yet.

Oh, & this just in!! Check out the thread by Krochus, 30-06 Bergara barrel range results. What was this about
just CVA ?  I have a funny feeling that the rifling in this barrel did not know which frame it was on.   

Keith,

If you notice, he never pointed you to anything.

Then he bla,bla,bla,bla on and on and on about what he is GOING to do. Not about what is has done or what he has. It's always about what some nebulous "someone else" (who we can't refer to...top secret stuff I guess) has done....and about his "funny feelings". Are these "touchy feely feelings"?

Dave

It's not really a secret Dave...http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?board=198.0

Thanks nomosendaro..for your appreciative words...

The Bergara barrels are considered to be their better barrels...and a few of us have had real good luck with them on our Elites...They are solidly built..and very accurate from my own limited testing...Now...for those of you who like to say they aren't...I suggest trying one...Everyone whom has one around my parts swear by them...and many that have them are die hard T/C fans as well...They aren't some of the rabid types who arbitrarily condemn them because they don't have T/C  stamped on them...or that they are made outside the U.S.A.and these guys all have a bunch of center fire barrels & shotguns...and pistol barrels...for their encores & G2's and Contenders...They get as good of accuracy from theirs as I do...and know a great deal more about the sport than I do...They are the type of folks who put a premium on accuracy...so...I take their words of wisdom to heart......and as well as others who gave me advice for a starting place on my own load development...I got great results...because I listened and didn't have any personal axes to grind....

Funny thing about these guys...is that for all of their high priced rifles...they can still marvel at how such an inexpensive rifle can shoot so well...all the while never uttering a disparaging word about them...but still offer me and others encouragement and advice about them...I guess they got over such pettiness when they bought their own to shoot....It's a pity most here won't...

Mac

[Davemuzz]

The Bergara barrels are considered to be their better barrels...

Mac

Once again considered by WHO?  I haven't seen one write up by one gun expert on these barrels. Let's see, Craig Bottoning, Mike Venturino, Jim Wilson...have any of these guys written about these barrels? Hmmm. No. Let's see, are you considered an "expert" on guns....let me look at my gun magizines....nope, nuthin in there. Let me look and see if you ever published a book on guns......nope...nuthin there. Hmmmmm, seems your expertise is just what you blab about. Well, that means a whole lot of nothing to me.

and a few of us have had real good luck with them on our Elites...They are solidly built..and very accurate from my own limited testing...


Mac

Well, there ya go. A "few" of you (who ever "you" are). The few who took a chance on buying a cheap barrel. What are you going to say? That you didn't spend he X-tra $50 to $70 and buy the AMERICAN MADE barrel with the THOMPSON CENTER WARRANTY FOR LIFE? Are you going to admit that you made a mistake? HA! The only thing you will admit to is that you were too cheap to buy the AMERICAN MADE barrel.

And at this point, I am just "amazed" (not) to see the "flood" of the "few" who have bot those barrels.

Dave


BTW, I read every post in your reference .http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?board=198.0 and I didn't find one expert in there either! (thank you Evelyn Wood)

Footnote: Saturday, I took a groundhog with my T\C Contender (pistol configuration) with the 7-30 Waters 14" factory barrel, Leupold 2.5-8X scope, Hornady bullet. The groundhog was 140 yards away and standing. I steadied with the Uncle Mikes handgun strap and the Stoney Point shooting stick. One shot thru the shoulder. I'll keep practicing like this as it's a great confidence builder for deer season. Oh, all quality products, made right here on US soil.

[Mac11700]

Dave...

You need to chill out buddy...and get a grip...What you saying is B.S.

Not once have I ever claimed to be an expert...nor has anyone else...

I haven't seen one write up by one gun expert on these barrels.

So What......I don't give a tinkers damn that no gun writers have given their " Stamp of Approval " on them or not...I don't need them to tell me if I am buying something quality made or not...I can see with my own eyes just how good they are...as the old saying goes...The proof is in the pudding...

The Bergara barrels are considered by BPI to be their better barrels...Now...if the company is saying this...Why is it you need one of the gun writers to tell you this...? Apparently your not capable of making these types of decisions for your self and purchasing something without being told it is ok by a gun writer who is being paid to do so by the company who's product their hawking......Sheeese

Well, there ya go. A "few" of you (who ever "you" are). The few who took chance on buying a cheap barrel. What are you going to say? That you didn't spend he X-tra $50 to $70 and buy the AMERICAN MADE barrel with the THOMPSON CENTER WARRANTY FOR LIFE? Are you going to admit that you made a mistake? HA! The only thing you will admit to is that you were too cheap to buy the AMERICAN MADE barrel.

First off...BPI warrenties their products for life as well...

CVA has a highly trained team of gunsmiths to serve your needs. Should your gun ever need any repairs, we will do our best to make sure you get it back, shooting just like new, in time for your next hunt. Even for problems resulting from abuse or accidental damage and not covered by the CVA Limited Lifetime Warranty, we can make the necessary repairs for a very reasonable charge.

3: Does Thompson/Center Arms really have a lifetime warranty?
Yes, our limited lifetime warranty covers the product through the lifetime of the original purchaser, except in the case of obvious abuse or neglect.

Hmmm...I wonder how much they charge you if you abuse it...?

Those that have them...are getting pretty good results so-far...and that is what is really ticking you off isn't it...People are trying them...and not listening to yours or all the rest of those  " self serving-self appointed experts" BS rhetoric....

By all means let's start slamming the company because they aren't American Made...Well...it seems you have run out of your normal BS about them Dave...and as a last ditch effort you have to start the flag waving now...That is sad ...so very sad...

The only thing you will admit to is that you were too cheap to buy the AMERICAN MADE barrel.

How Dare You...Where  do you get off saying this...You don't pay my bills...nor put braces on my children's teeth..nor put gas in my vehicles....Keep your holy than thou sanctimonious BS out of this...What right do you have to tell folks they should have to spend more on a American Made Product..when a less expensive alternative is available...If folks want to save a little money and use it for other things...it is none of your business...


Mac

[Davemuzz]

Not once have I ever claimed to be an expert...nor has anyone else...

I always thought you were just a rank amateur.

Oh, I'll keep waving the flag. The American one. You waive what ever one you like. You have that right as well.

Dave

[Mac11700]

Not once have I ever claimed to be an expert...nor has anyone else...

I always thought you were just a rank amateur.

Oh, I'll keep waving the flag. The American one. You waive what ever one you like. You have that right as well.

Dave

What is your point?

You don't have any thing of real value to say...You don't offer any thing to these discussions except but biased drivel...Every time some one wants to know any thing about them...you and all the other R W  groupies come out of the wood work like a bunch of cockroaches when the lights go out...just to slam the company and its current products...When that tactic doesn't work...you want to start waving the American Flag around and try to put people down and insinuate they are being un-American for purchasing it...

Give it a rest...Offer some thing sub substantial to the conversations for a change...Better yet...get one and shoot it...Then what you have to say may carry a little more weight to these conversations...because you don't know what your talking about...

As I told some one else just recently...Having and voicing an opinion is one thing...but...arbitrarily slamming/bashing a company just for the heck of it isn't accepted on any forum here...

Since your so dead set against this current company...offer some thing concrete to the contrary of what has been said...People are just now getting them and trying these barrels out...Accuracy has been very good...BPI isn't the CVA of old...These are the best barrels they are making right now...and are considered their premium line of barrels...


Time to put up...or shut up Dave...

Mac

[Davemuzz]

Hey Mac,

I never started this. In fact you make me weary. Go back and read. All I ever did was inject some sarcasm in about some blurb someone posted. Really, go back and read it.

But then you and ....I dunno...whoever......come jumpin in on the post and inject just enough to keep "pushin the line" on the issue. You just couldn't leave it alone. You just have to keep pushing it. I honestly believe your reverent hope is that I will "cross the line" so you can permanently ban me from the forum. Please tell me that this isn't so? Please tell me why you jumped into this post to begin with?

Dave   

[Mac11700]

Hey Mac,

I never started this. In fact you make me weary. Go back and read. All I ever did was inject some sarcasm in about some blurb someone posted. Really, go back and read it.

But then you and ....I dunno...whoever......come jumpin in on the post and inject just enough to keep "pushin the line" on the issue. You just couldn't leave it alone. You just have to keep pushing it. I honestly believe your reverent hope is that I will "cross the line" so you can permanently ban me from the forum. Please tell me that this isn't so? Please tell me why you jumped into this post to begin with?

Dave   

AAAAAAAAAAAAANt wrong answer Dave...I don't have to leave anything alone...and can jump in on any thread...on any forum...any time I see someone doing what you are doing...I make you weary...Good...Let's get this settled...once and for all shall we...

Over 2 months had past on this thread from 5-9-07 reply #33 by BigBlock455 to the time you resurrected bigblocks reply in quotes......Reply #36 on 7-25-07...This was for no other apparent reasoning...except to bait people into an argument about the Bergara barrels... CONGRATULATIONS..... You did exactly what you set out to do...BUT.........

You crossed the line this time Dave....and got caught....YOU did this all by wittle self..The only person "pushing" anything on this thread is you dude...If you do wind up getting banned from here...it will be because of your ego and your mouth....So.... go sell your BS to someone else...I ain't buying it...Not now...Not Ever...Not on this forum...or any other forum here...

You know...for all of your intelligence...your sure acting asinine about this... On one hand your most helpful and knowledgeable and show folks how to fix the Encores without spending a bunch of money...then...when a good product does becomes available that perhaps some of the less financially able folks can see a savings of $50-$100 bucks on their barrels...or any one else who wants to save some of their hard earned cash..you start this mickey mouse BS...What a crock of crap ....and here is the real kicker...I know why too...You enjoy baiting people into an argument...and that Dave is against the rules here and won't be tolerated...You are entitled to your opinion about the BPI/CVA Bergara barrels Dave...and you are allowed to state it...BUT...if you want others to value your opinion...and truthfully...I really think you do...then give an opinion that is based on substantiated facts...not rhetoric from others who have a personal axe to grind with a company no longer in business...

I'll give you a piece of advice Dave...and this Sir is the last free one I give you......I would leave the sarcasm at home if I were you...namely because it isn't needed or called for and the only thing that is going to get you from me is a hard row to hoe..especially when it is directed at me...

Mac

[Davemuzz]

I'll give you a piece of advice Dave...and this Sir is the last free one I give you......I would leave the sarcasm at home if I were you...namely because it isn't needed or called for and the only thing that is going to get you from me is a hard row to hoe..especially when it is directed at me...

Well thanks "Dad" for the "free" advice. But your not me (thank God for that) and I'll leave my sarcasm any place I darn well please. And I'll leave my opinions where I see fit as well. Let me look.....no....my "boots ain't shakin" Mac. 

Mac, while it is true that I believe I can contribute to this forum, I also believe I am a novice and I can learn a lot from this forum. However, I am a very principled man. In my career (prior to forced retirement) I walked away from lucrative dollars waived in front of my firms face because it required me to bend or break my principles.

I am a die in the wool USA flag waving business supporting guy. I've seen first hand what foreign low cost imports have done to US business, their labor forces, management and shareholders. Yeah, you can argue the economics all you want about how the companies perhaps should go belly up anyway, but I don't see Bargara making frames. I just see 'em piggy backing off of a quality American product. Just another leach on an outstanding US company. And for what? $50.

Sorry Mac. That's how I see it and I ain't changin. Maybe if a foreign company someday threatened your security, you would see it differently. But maybe you can't open your eyes to that. I don't honestly know.

Dave.


Dave

[Mac11700]

Well thanks "Dad" for the "free" advice. But your not me (thank God for that) and I'll leave my sarcasm any place I darn well please. And I'll leave my opinions where I see fit as well. Let me look.....no....my "boots ain't shakin" Mac.

OK.....your choice..I've given good advice to you..and for what...for nothing apparently...I thought you were an intelligent reasonable individual....Perhaps I made a mistake in this assumption...So....you think you can say & do as you please anytime...anywhere...I don't think so......Your not above the rules here Dave...even though you apparently believe you are...So... you will either follow the rules to the letter of which they are written...or deal with the consequences...

Hence forth...you'll receive neither any advice...nor any warnings for breaking any of the rules..on any of the forums here...If you have a problem with this...Take it to Graybeard..

Mac