300 or 338

[Don Fischer]

Let's say you had a 30-06 and wanted to upgrade to a more powerful rifle. Would you go with a 300 magnum or a 338 magnum? I've never owned a 300 mag but have had two 338 mag's. The 338 mag is the way I'd go because of the greater bullet's weight's avaliable.

When your into that class of cartridge, I'm thinking  "dangerious" as in big bear. That makes me think closer range shot's that heavier and a bit slower bullet's thrive on. You could go to a 220 gr partition in a 300 mag, or some other premium, or you could go to a 250 gr partition or other premium, from a 338 at about the same velocity. The difference in recoil wouldn't be that great, in fact I doubt that anyone shooting a 300 mag would be bothered by a 338,,,,if the 300 really doesn't bother them.

I guess I just don't understand the success of the 300 mag's. They're not that much improvement over the standard 30-06.

[Thebear_78]

THe 300s are very versatile with bullet weights from 110-250gr that will handle all situations you might come across.  The 338 win is another versatile, 160-275gr, cartridge but I haven't seen it to be that much of a step up from the 300 win mag.   The 308 cal bullets have better BC and SD in the sub 200gr offerings.     The 06 is a great cartridge and in bullet weights up to 180gr it will do about 90% of what a 300 win mag will do.  THe 300 win mag really shines with 180+ bullets.   Given the choice between a 200gr 300 win mag, and 225gr 338, I'd opt for the 300 every time.   

When talking big dangerouse game I think the 375 is a much more logical step up in power over the 300 than the 338.    A big 338 like the 340 weatherby or 338 RUM  is another animal and if you don't mind a long barrel and heavier gun overall they are a lot more powerful.

That said the 338 will easily cover the whole spectrum of american big game,  loaded with 200gr ballistic tip for deer and 225gr premium, or 250gr for bigger stuff.   It will definately do the job.  Its just too much of a all arounder, it does pretty much everyting but doesn't excell at anything.

[Casull]

Don, I think you're on the money.  The 30-06 is not that much lower in power than the .300 (even with heavier bullets).  I've seen load data where the 30-06 handles 250 grain bullets to about 2450 fps and the .300 is at about 2650 fps.  I just don't think 200 fps is going to make that much difference (the 30-06 at 100 yards would be about like the .300 at 200 yards).  Now, as far as the .338, I seem to have seen information indicating that it is the most popular caliber in Alaska, which tells me a great deal.  So, of course I do not own a .300, but I do have a 30-06 and a .338.   

[Ratltrap]

With today's bullet choices either is a step up from the '06, but given only those 2 choices I'd also give the nod the 338 Win. It's not a personal favorite and I really think much of it's popularity here in AK is driven by the rifles it's chambered in. The 338 has been widely available in relatively heavy stainless rifles with standard length actions like the Mod. 70 and Ruger MKII that are usually more compact yet easier to shoot (due to weight) than many 300 Mag. rifles. Those guns are also reasonably priced compared to magnum length actions like the 375s etc. The magnum moniker and their more numerous Mauser bells and whistles also tend to draw attention to those rifles from the "dangerous game" and "bear protection" crowd.

I already own both a very comfortable 375 H&H and a 35 Whelen, so little interest to me either way, but I think the 375 Ruger will be stiff competition for any of the 338 or 300 magnums here in AK and probably elsewhere.

[Sourdough]

I don't even own a 300, yet I own several 30-06s, bolts, pumps, semi-autos, 4 singleshots.  I feel a 30-06 can do anything a 300 can do.  I also own three .338s, two Rugers and a TCR.  I've seen a lot of Moose lost with 300s, but never seen one lost to a .338. 

Last year I left my TCR in the outfitters truck when we flew in to the Brooks Range.  I had to use a Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag.  I shot a big Caribou center of the shoulder like I usually do.  The 180gr 300 did not brake both shoulders like I expected, only the one closest to me.  That Caribou dropped down into a low drainage and I was unable to get a second shot.  He then ran over 200 yards before going down.   My 225gr .338 would have broken both shoulders and the Caribou would have been down there on the spot.

[Thebear_78]

Sourdough-

what bullets were you using for your carabou in that 300  win mag.   I'm pretty surprised that it didn't bust both of those shoulders.  I have used the nosler partition and barnes X, both 180gr and would definately trust them to double shoulder any carabou that walks.  One thing that I have noticed is that with the faster cartridges better bullets are a must.     

I would probalby like the 338 win mag more but of the 2 that I have had, a ruger and a tikka, I was pretty dissapointed.  The ruger had great promise but I could never get the darn thing to shoot good.   3" groups were the order of the day, and it was pretty heavy.  The tikka was pretty accurate but kicked itself out of the the stock, splitting it, and berretta USA wouldn't warrantee the damage due to the fact that I had altered it, with a muzzle break!  How a muzzle break could cause a stock to split is beyond me.  I think it had much more to do with the joke of a recoil lug in the T3.  Not to mention the tikka was one of the slowest rifles i have ever owned,  225s were really hard to get up to 2700fps, most loads where in the 2600-2650.   

They pretty much swore me off the 338 win.   After looking at the kimber montana in 338 win, I might make an exception.

The 338 Rum on the other hand has been very impressive!  Easy to load for,  LOTS of power, and impressive performance on game.  I fully intend on owning another 338 RUM one of these days, just hard to find a rifle.

[beemanbeme]

I'd be curious about that bullet also.  I've never shot a caribou but with a 300Win and a 200gr Grand Slam, I'll shoot thru both shoulders of an elk.
Re: the .338, when I was shooting one, @ 2700-2800fps was the velocity window I was looking for.  I was shooting a 250gr bullet and figured that 2900fps wasn't gonna kill an elk any deader than 2800fps. 

[targshooter]

Don,
I would give the nod to the .338 WM. The .338 gives you heavier bullets with great sectional density. The caliber has increased your bullet frontal area by 10%, a small but calculable difference. You also get a little more recoil, but to me, this component is fairly close between a .300 WM and the .338 WM. I have owned two rifles chambered for the cartridge; a presently owned Ruger stainless Model 77 Sporter (has laminated stock), and in the 1970s owned and hunted with a Winchester post 64 Model 70 (sold in the early 1980s). Both are/were accurate. Most people concede that this is an inherently accurate cartridge, and the cartridge and its derivatives have been used by military snipers in their long range sniper rifles. I've shot black bear, moose and several deer with this cartridge, and I settled on the Hornady 250 grain Spire Point at about 2650 fps. It has always given me one shot kills, something the 225 grain version did not. I also found the 250 grain bullet to be a fairly decent brush penetrator, with minimal deflection.

[jim dab]

Don: ran into a friend at a sporting goods store the other day, he was with his brother in law looking for a 300 WSM. He wanted to go up from his 7mm Rem. and they asked me my opion. My first question was WHY. Probaly hit a tad harder but not as flat. That 7mm is as good as the 300WSM and no feeding problems as I've heard and seen with a 270 WSM.

30-06 a little slower ,ok a lot, than the 300 but at what range are you shooting at will it make a real difference. The 338 is't much flater and will only hit them a little harder.

I guess what I'm saying is if you want to " upgrade "  go for something that you can really see the difference.

Now the other shoe. I really really like my 358 STA. A 225gr. @ 3300 ft/sec or a 250gr. @  3050 ft/sec.

Jim
Alberta

[BigLost]

when the '06 caught on,it was 150@2700 give or take a little ,and the 180@2460 or so with the powders of the day,,out comes the SUPER .30 or as we now know it as the .300 h&h,,doin' with the 180's what the '06 did with the 150's,and with 220's what the '06 did with the 180's,,quite a step up for the day,,,P.O.Ackley,,Kieth and others said when the .300 magnum craze started,that a magnum was any cartridge that gave AT LEAST 300 F>P>S> better performance with all bullet weights than the standard cartridges of the same calber,,or it was a waste,,,,with modern components,,standard shells COME OFF THE SHELF so close(06 that is)it is a waste,,my handloads in my '06 are WITHIN 100 FPS in all wgt.s of my .300,,,thats why it is becoming a .458!!!

[jim dab]

Big Lost that must be quite the 30-06. I load for my 300 and my friend's 300, 24" and 23" barrels. 180gr's @ 3200 ft/sec. What are you getting in the 30-06 ?

Jim
Alberta

[BigLost]

  Hey Jim!,,my '06 is just a mauser with a Gibbs bbl.,24",,,I should have said within  100fps of off the shelf stuff in MY rifle,,I do 3200 or so out of my .300 with handloads and 180's also,,,my latest chronoing of some 180grn. '06 avegd. out @2865 and my shootin' buddy's .300 did 2960 with 180 grn. Rem.factorty loads,,he wont shoot reloads,,thinks they are only for "experts".I grew up in Elmer Kieth country and when I got my first '06 it came with some load data that he had worked up for the previous owner of that old '06,,he didn't believe in half measures,,if the rifle was capable of such an'such performance,,then use it.Modern powders can really make the old dog bark!!!and bullets that let you use the power are in abundance now a days,,and with all the load work I've done for my'06,,I don't need the .300 no more,,so I am going to trade it for a good scope,if I don't make .458 out of it like I am thinking about

[victorcharlie]

If I needed anything other than a 30.06, I'd go up in caliber.

Choosing between the two I'd go with the 338.

However, I think a .35 Whelen would be a very good rifle and I would probably go with it.

[jim dab]

Victorcharlie: A 35 Whelen I wouldn't mind having even with the fact I have the STA. A 35 cal 225gr at 2550 to 2600 ft/sec, well how could you go wrong.

BigLost: I was begining to think you found a magic powder and I wanted some.   A 458, you know that new 375 Ruger case has some real possibilites. .358 even an 8mm if you could get decent bullets. It just hit me a, .416.   

Jim
Alberta

[BigLost]

well jim i always  wanted a heavy in my collection and the .458 is a classic,,,I'll have it in .458 Lott so I can shoot Lotts,,WINMAGS and the .458/2" ,,,the 1 1/2" is a little too much free bore,,I'll probly shoot a lot of lead slugs as  well.

[beemanbeme]

180's at 3200fps.  That's cookin'. 
It's really not doing much to compare hand loaded ammo with store bought.  To hand load a .280 and say it's a 7mag (with store ammo) is wrong.  It's certainly not apples to apples.

If I had a 30-06 and wanted to "move up", I go to the .338. 

[corbanzo]

I would say that the power difference between the 30-06 and the 300 are more than that of the 300 and the 338.

Pretty much the only thing you are gonna gain with the .338 is bullet size.  I would personally rather have the 300 because of velocities.  With the same grain bullet, the .338 isnt going to get up much more than the 300, but the 300 will get you more than the .30-06, that is for sure. 

What I didn't realize was just how hard the .416 weatherby mag hits, even over the other .416 mags, I mean, DANG!!  I was thinking about getting one over the .300 RUM, but cost is definitely a factor for that one....