Author Topic: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?  (Read 4083 times)

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Offline Mr. Joe

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Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« on: February 13, 2007, 04:00:30 AM »
My buddy wants to buy a rifle for all around big game hunting.  He really likes the 6.5x55 as do i, but this will be his only rifle.  It will be used for deer, black bear and things of that sort mostly, but perhaps for elk or moose once or twice in the next 40 years.  Properly loaded, and with a compitent riflement behind the trigger, will this rig suffice?
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2007, 04:19:12 AM »
My buddy wants to buy a rifle for all around big game hunting.  He really likes the 6.5x55 as do i, but this will be his only rifle.  It will be used for deer, black bear and things of that sort mostly, but perhaps for elk or moose once or twice in the next 40 years.  Properly loaded, and with a compitent riflement behind the trigger, will this rig suffice?

People have been taking moose size game with great success...every year...why would he be under gunned ? Are there bigger better cartridges out there will do the job...sure...but...the Swedish wonder has been working it's magic for years on moose in the Scandinavian countries...No reason it won't work for your buddy...

Mac
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Offline Mr. Joe

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2007, 04:42:18 AM »
Thats pretty much what i figured.  I just got one myself not to long ago, but i have other calibers and never put a whole lot of thought into having one as a "do it all" caliber.  You hear alot about folks who feel a .375 is about right for elk so it kind of shakes the confidence ya know.
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Offline dogwhisperer5

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2007, 07:53:59 AM »
Thats pretty much what i figured.  I just got one myself not to long ago, but i have other calibers and never put a whole lot of thought into having one as a "do it all" caliber.  You hear alot about folks who feel a .375 is about right for elk so it kind of shakes the confidence ya know.
   The "swab the bore with a mop" boys will tell you that anything smaller than about .338 is no more than "adequate for whitetails", or as Elmer Keith used to like to say to upset "small bore folks", they make "fair pest rifles". Certainly there are cartridges with more added "insurance" for the larger medium game than the 6.5x55, but as has been noted the Swede has been doing the job for a long time and, unless animals really have gotten tougher over the last 30-40 years, should continue to do so. I personally would choose something a little "heavier" for a specialty elk rifle, but your choice will work if you take your shots properly. IMHO of couse.
Ernie Groves

Offline Ratltrap

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2007, 08:22:04 AM »
If I already had one I'd certainly use it. You could easily handload it for moose and elk and Norma makes some good heavy for caliber loads for the 6.5 Swede that take plenty of moose every year. If they shoot in your gun the Norma loads could be put to good use at reasonable range.

If I was buying new I'd probably move up a bit to something like 7x57. Still a great light game cartridge but with classic credentials for bigger stuff. Much better components for handloading and again Norma loads heavy for caliber if you need factory fodder.

If the military ditches the 308 for the 260 the handloading outlook for the 6.5 Swede could improve rapidly.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2007, 08:51:12 AM »
I'm quite fond of my M-70 featherweight 6.5x55 and consider it a fine elk rifle. I don't know who started the rumor that it takes a .375 H&H to kill an elk, plenty of them are taken every year with .243s and 30/30s, not to mention .490 round balls.  You can load the 6.5 well above American factory ballistics but there is really no need to do so. My deer and antelope load is a 120 grain ballistic tip at close to 3000fps but I load that hot only for the trajectory out to 300 yards, they'd kill just as well if loaded down. For elk I run the 129 grain Hornady at about 2800 and if I had to choose one load for everything, that would be the one. However, I don't believe in shooting elk in the butt as old Elmer was so fond of doing, for that one may need a .375 H&H.  The few thousandths of an inch between 6.5 and .270 will never be noticed in the field and shot placement is so all important that nothing else really matters except to the extent that flat trajectory aids shot placement and flinching ruins it.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2007, 08:59:48 AM »
I have a 6.5X55 and found it to be very effective on deer.  It is accurate and the recoil is mild.  The rifle is a sportized M96 Swede.

But I would prefer to have it in a stronger action.  I would like to safely push the 140 grain bullet 2800 fps.  There is room in the 6.5 case to do that.  According to Nosler a maximum charge of 43 grains of H4831 fills the case to a density of 89 percent.  

My brother was very generous when he gave me the rifle.  He is a 6.5 lover, but I believe he did not want risking mixing his loads for his M70 in 6.5 with the M96.  So rather then sell the rifle he gave it to me in a successful effort to make me a believer in the 6.5X55.

I agree with coyotejoe that correct shot placement is the answer, and a shot in the hindend is not the answer. 

 

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Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2007, 09:29:14 AM »
Siskiyou, blow-up tests have shown the Swedish m-96 to actually be stronger than most M-98s, although if they do blow it will be more dangerous to the shooter.  It actually is very hard to blow up any rifle if using a reasonably correct powder. I've had a couple of Swedes and loaded them the same as my M-70 and they were just as accurate, only heavier. For maximum loads I like Hodgdon's H-450, it has quite a muzzle blast but also the ballistics to match.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2007, 10:24:19 AM »
My buddy wants to buy a rifle for all around big game hunting.  He really likes the 6.5x55 as do i, but this will be his only rifle.  It will be used for deer, black bear and things of that sort mostly, but perhaps for elk or moose once or twice in the next 40 years.  Properly loaded, and with a compitent riflement behind the trigger, will this rig suffice?

     In a word NO .................

     he would not be undergunned   8) 

      and YES it will moste certainly suffice  ;D

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2007, 12:03:18 PM »
Coyotej:  I have not weighed my Model 96 and externally the restocking job might be a “B”, the inletting has to be an “A+” from the accuracy it delivers.  The rifle has a 23-inch barrel, but it is lighter then some standard caliber rifles.  And the balance point is just right for carrying in the field.  The bottomline is the old Swede is a good deer and black bear rifle.  I have thought about buying a black plastic stock for it, but I may not be able to duplicate the accuracy I am currently recieving. 

Years back when I was staying in Mexico I meet a hunter-fisherman from British Columbia wintering in Baja.  His hunting passion was mountain goats.  He had all the require pictures of his goats.  His rifle of choice was the 6.5 Swede and he had convincing evidence that it was effective. 

I am a fan of H-450/WW785 powder.  Olin manufactured both numbers, and when one was dropped the other disappeared.  What little WW785 I have left I am saving for a favorite .270 Winchester load.  I believe I will invest my time in loading with H4831 and WMR.  WMR is a ball powder in the H4831burning range, but is no longer manufactured, and loading data is scarce. The one thing I have not done is fire some rounds across the Chrony.  Once I do that I will have a better idea on what to expect from that rifle.  I know that it kills deer and I want to duplicate or exceed past performance within safe parameters.

I am aware of a 160 grain Hornaday round nose penetrating and killing two mule deer bucks in one shot, and I got over twenty-five inches of penetration on a Mule deer with a 140 Nosler PT.  From the results I repeat myself in saying shot placement is the answer.

Have you recovered the 120 grain and 129 grain bullets from game?  How much bullet is left, and how deep was the penetration?
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Offline wallynut

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2007, 12:07:28 PM »
I'd go for it, there's plenty of bullet selection if handloading comes into question.  Sectional Densities of the bullets availlable is very good, that is part of the reason for the accuracy obtainable with the 6.5x55.  Very pleasant to shoot and that helps in being more accurate when you aren't worried about recoil when the trigger is pulled.  I will admit that I'm biased because I own a Ruger in 6.5x55.
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Offline Mr. Joe

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2007, 05:21:43 AM »
Man, with all these nice things being said, my 6.5x55 may become my all arounder!
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Offline Guy Pike

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2007, 04:32:14 PM »
I have found my Husky 1640 in 6.5 Swede to be accurate. easy handling and pleasant to shoot. These features DO make it easier to shoot well if one can control the buck fever! There really is no substitue for a well placed round.
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Offline jmckinley

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2007, 10:06:44 AM »
 ;D I have been asking the same question and have finally decided that no we aren't. I can't think of a nother rond that i would rather use. I have a Custom 98 Mauser that will put 3 rounds under an inch all and i am not punch drunk when I finish. I took my goat last year at 250-275 with one shot and the animal never moved. If it will take Moose then it will drop what ever  I'll be hunting. Its not what ya hit em with its where.  Jess  :o :o :o :o
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Offline Mikey

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2007, 12:40:40 PM »
Under-gunned with a 6.5 Swede?  Ha!  The 6.5 is just right for eveything you mentioned.  JMHO.  Mikey.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2007, 04:25:35 AM »
Siskiyou, I've not recovered any bullets.  I take more or less broadside chest shots and bullets always exit. It is for that reason that I have never felt the need for a heavier bullet, if you're getting full penetration and exit why on earth would one want even more penetration?  Now if a shot should stray into the big bones of an elk's shoulder I can't say what may happen since I've not yet suffered that misfortune.  I have seen a 130 grain .270 bullet blow to bits on an elk shoulder and never reach the vitals. That elk would likely have been lost but for the fact that another friend had a straight on frontal shot with his .308 which dropped the big bull instantly. Those two guys fired at the same instant and neither one knew the other had fired until they approached and talked about it. When dressed out there was no doubt as to which had killed. When I picked up that shoulder it actually rattled with bone and bullet fragments.  As we've both said before, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Don Fischer

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2007, 04:11:43 AM »
Thats pretty much what i figured.  I just got one myself not to long ago, but i have other calibers and never put a whole lot of thought into having one as a "do it all" caliber.  You hear alot about folks who feel a .375 is about right for elk so it kind of shakes the confidence ya know.

What do you think has killed more elk and moose around the world. A 6.5x55 or a 375 H&H? If I were a betting man I'd bet on the 6.5x55.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2007, 04:18:21 AM »
Yes, I would think that a safe bet.  I should add a caveat however.  I take only certain shots. I go with the presumption that if I pass up a shot or wait for just a little better shot which never happens, that will not be the end of my hunt and if I don't get an elk at all, that will not be the end of my world. But I have arranged my lifestyle to live in good deer and elk country.   I can see the point of the guy who has invested a lot of time and money in a once-in-a-lifetime hunt who feels that a slightly chancy shot is the only shot he'll get. For him, a .300 mag or .338 may be a better choice if he can shoot it. I've done a bit of guiding and have a good friend who has done much more and we have both seen plenty of magnum packing hunters who can't shoot for beans. For the guy who can shoot it, the .338 is a fine rifle but 95% of the time a .270, 6.5mm or even a 25/06 will do just as well. It's still all about shot placement but a 250 grain .338 will allow good shot placement from some angles where any lesser bullet would likely fail.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline jro45

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2007, 05:42:11 AM »
I wouldn't think a man would be under gunned with a 6.5X55.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2007, 07:54:04 AM »
Coyotejoe:  I cannot disagree regarding the performance of the .270 Winchester and many standard 130-grain bullets.  As a kid with a .270 I immediately went for the Remington Bronze Pt. bullet because it had the highest velocity of the 130-grain factory loads.  I was lucky and shot my first deer with it in the chest.  But there were a few lessons to be learned by the kill.  The close range shot destroyed the heart, lungs, and part of the liver.  Rather impressive damage and kill.  But the lesson came when examining the entire kill.  The bullet had disintegrated in the chest cavity and except for a few minor necks there was no damage inside the ribcage on the far side, nor damage to the shoulder of the off side.  Just a few fragments were recovered.  The lesson did not sink in for a while because I was more impressed by high velocity at 14 years.

Lesson #2 came a few weeks later at the close of the season.  I needed another box of ammunition and all I could find was 130 grain Remington C-L.  I shot a running buck behind the shoulder at about thirty yards.  The bullet destroyed the heart and lungs, the rib cage on the far side suffered major damage, and the shoulder on the off side suffered extensive damage.  The bullet did not hit the shoulder bone, and we recovered it under the hide.  While the bronze Pt. flew faster the designed of the C-L allowed it to penetrated deeper. 

But I also learned a few lessons about bullets and velocity from others.  A neighbor and old time hunter always killed his bucks with a 30-06.  His favorite bullet was the 165-grain Hornaday, and normally he did not recover his bullets.  I was shocked when he bought a new M70 Featherweight in .243 Winchester.  As luck would have it a large Mule Deer buck gave him a cross shot at close range.  The high velocity 80-grain bullet blew a large entry wound and peppered the heart and lungs with bone and bullet.  A follow-up shot was required.  I was as surprised at him using 80-grain bullets, as I was that he was deer hunting with a .243 Winchester.  He was a critic of the .270 Winchester and 130 grain bullets.

It was becoming clear to me that light for caliber bullets driven at high velocity where not the best answer at close range.  I soon found that slower 150-grain C-L, and PP bullets along with 140-grain bullets were more reliable then 130-grain bullets in the .270 Win. 

In later years one of my brothers started shooting the 6.5 Swede with 140 and 160-grain bullets.  I learned from him that the heavier for caliber bullets in the Swede held together and penetrated deep or fully.

Speer has stopped recommending they’re 145-grain in 7MM Magnum on large deer or large game because it breaks up at high velocity.

A California Game Warden who travels out of State to go elk hunting told me that he has taken a number of elk with the .270 Winchester.  The kicker is that he uses Nosler Partition bullets.

Is the success of the 6.5X55 Swede with standard bullets because the velocity the bullets are fired at better match standard cup design bullets?  Will the standard cup design 120-129 grain bullets in 6.5 bullets start failing at close range when fired from a 6.5-284 or 6.5-06 at three thousand feet per second?

 






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Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2007, 04:09:07 AM »
Quite right, the bullet must be designed for the velocity. I think the great success of the 30/30 is due to the fact that any 150 or 170 grain flat point or round nose bullet is designed for the 30/30 and performs properly at 30/30 speeds. One may load a 300 Savage with bullets designed for a 300 mag or viceversa. My own 30/30 is a Savage m-219 singleshot and people have suggested I can load spirepoint bullets for better downrange performance. That is true on paper, a spirepoint will retain much more energy at 200 yards and shoot a tad flatter as well, but will it reliably expand at 200 yards from a 30/30? I have my doubts and prefer to play it safe by using bullets designed for the 30/30 and forget the paper advantage, unless, of course, I'm only shooting paper.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Don Fischer

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2007, 05:20:37 AM »
Yes, I would think that a safe bet.  I should add a caveat however.  I take only certain shots. I go with the presumption that if I pass up a shot or wait for just a little better shot which never happens, that will not be the end of my hunt and if I don't get an elk at all, that will not be the end of my world. But I have arranged my lifestyle to live in good deer and elk country.   I can see the point of the guy who has invested a lot of time and money in a once-in-a-lifetime hunt who feels that a slightly chancy shot is the only shot he'll get. For him, a .300 mag or .338 may be a better choice if he can shoot it. I've done a bit of guiding and have a good friend who has done much more and we have both seen plenty of magnum packing hunters who can't shoot for beans. For the guy who can shoot it, the .338 is a fine rifle but 95% of the time a .270, 6.5mm or even a 25/06 will do just as well. It's still all about shot placement but a 250 grain .338 will allow good shot placement from some angles where any lesser bullet would likely fail.

Good caveat, everybody should do that. I do not see the point of the guy that has time and money invested in a hunt of a lifetime that is willing to take a chancy shot. That suggest's that success only come's with a kill. That guy is most definatelly sport hunting and in sport's, there is a winner and a loser. If you can't afford to lose, don't play!
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Lone Star

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2007, 05:43:36 AM »
The error that many shooters make is to choose a rifle based on their "worst case" scenario, one which may never happen.  If 99% of your friend's hunting will be on deer-sized game, why on earth buy a rifle that is better suited for elk?  40 years in the future is a long time, and my guess is that by the time you friend hunts elk - if he ever does - he could afford to buy, 'rent' or borrow a more suitable rifle.  Handicapping yourself for '40 years' with too much rifle is, in a word, silly!  Get the 6.5x55 (or a .260 or 7-08) and never look back.   8)


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Offline PeterCartwright

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2007, 01:51:36 PM »
I love my 6.5X55.  While it wouldn't be my first choice to use chasing elk, I'm sure it would do the job.  Tens of thousands of  moose are taken in Norway, Sweden and Finnland every year with the good old 6.5-and they are often harvested by standing shooters who take these largest  deer on the run!

The "Swede" has very mild recoil, which no doubt helps hunters shoot their rifles well.  It also works its best magic when utilizing bullets of high sectional density-at least where larger critters are concerned.  This thread reinforces my observation that those who once use the 6.5X55 fall hopelessly in love with the cartridge/rifle combination.  It's been a keeper for more than a 100 years.

Offline captdp

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2007, 02:26:09 PM »
The error that many shooters make is to choose a rifle based on their "worst case" scenario, one which may never happen.  If 99% of your friend's hunting will be on deer-sized game, why on earth buy a rifle that is better suited for elk?  40 years in the future is a long time, and my guess is that by the time you friend hunts elk - if he ever does - he could afford to buy, 'rent' or borrow a more suitable rifle.  Handicapping yourself for '40 years' with too much rifle is, in a word, silly!  Get the 6.5x55 (or a .260 or 7-08) and never look back.   8)


.

I agree whole heartedly!!! capt dp ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D

Offline lrs

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2007, 11:56:42 AM »
Karamojo Bell used a 6.5x54 on elephants for a while, and finally decided it was not quite enough gun for elephants.  But he did kill a number of pachyderms with it.
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Offline Slamfire

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2007, 05:20:40 PM »
Karamojo Bell used a 6.5x54 on elephants for a while, and finally decided it was not quite enough gun for elephants.  But he did kill a number of pachyderms with it.

Actually his complaint was that the 160 grain fmjs he was using bent, and didn't follow a direct path through the skull to the brain. He never said there wasn't enough penetration.
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2007, 10:15:38 AM »
And it was only late on in his career that he used the 6.5x54 MS. Early on he used a Lee Speed .303 then a Mannlicher model 1892 in 6.5x53R before switching to the 7mm Mauser.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2007, 10:18:12 AM »
THe only way you would be "undergunned" with a 6.5 would beif you were a poor hunter.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Would a man with a 6.5x55 be under gunned?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2007, 12:31:15 PM »
As long as you stay in the lower 48, or Southern Canada, the 6.5 will be totally adiquate.  In Alaska it would do for the Caribou, and Black Bears.  But is would be a little light for Alaskian Moose.  Not so much for the Biggest Moose in the world, but for those Brown fellows that hang out in the same locations.  Brown Bears/Grizzlies, just in case some folks don't understand.
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