Author Topic: Woud you consider this baiting? (Read 1446 times)

IronKnees · « **on:** May 08, 2003, 03:33:54 AM »

In Indiana, you are NOT allowed to hunt over bait. What is considered "bait" is carefully detailed in the regulations, and includes such things as anything for them to consume, and also salt and mineral blocks... and you are instructed to remove such things within a certain number of days before hunting the area... Now, here is my question: If you plant a field of high nutrition cover crop, and then hunt over the trails leading to and from such field. Would this be considered baiting?

Heck, if you hunt in Indiana at all, you are hunting near corn or beanfields... that's all Indiana is, is one big "BAIT" area...

markc · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2003, 03:38:42 AM »

I have always been a bit amused when someone who hunts corn fields or clover or soybeans in a field would berate a hunter in Texas who hunted over or near a corn feeder. I think if you are hunting within sight of a crop field which the deer or other game eat, then yes it is baiting, or atleast hunting over bait. Now if you are hunting trails leading from bedding areas towards a crop field, but far enough away to be out of sight of the field then atleast to me, it would not be baiting. Just my opinion. Good question.
markc

IronKnees · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2003, 03:45:43 AM »

Yep... that's always tickled me too... Here in Indiana, it's fairly easy to find a trail. Heck, all you need is a woods with deer in it, well used trails, and a crop field... Then, as long as you use good hunting skills, you should be all set. This is just my personal opinion, but I can see nothing wrong in open areas, such as Texas etc. , where baits are legal. It is simply a tool to get the job done. When I go to Canada to black bear hunt, my time is VERY limited. If I didn't hunt over a bait, I would be wasting my time and money, and still, your chances for success depend on your skills, and lots of other factors... Just IMHO

IronKnees · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2003, 04:33:59 AM »

I just took a good look and carefully read the Indiana regulations. Bait is mentioned in two sections. One, the description of what is considered to be "bait", and the other is the regulation about baiting. I think the operative term is "placing".. A farmer does not "place" a crop in his field to entice the deer... And, the hunter does not have the option of waiting ten days after the corn is "removed" (harvested) so that would be the difference... Still, the question remains in my mind about planting a "nutrition" crop...

Here is what I copied out of the 2002/2003 Indiana regs:

Baiting: Placing a food product in the field for consumption to attract wildlife to an area being hunted. Examples of baits include salt, mineral blocks, solid licks, grains, and liquids or powders spread...

By the aid of baiting (placing feed such as corn, wheat, salt or other feed to constitute a lure or enticement), or on or over any baited area. Hunters should be aware that a baited
area is considered to be baited for 10 days after the removal of the bait. Hunters are in violation if they know or should reasonably know that an area is baited...

willis5 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2003, 05:53:14 AM »

I have had debates on this issue before as well. My wife said "hunting over bait is illeagal and on top of it... you are cheating." Well, I had to remind her of how she likes to catfish in a chummed area :-D I say, abide by the laws. If the law says that you can bait, then go for it.

About corn fields as bait, well, I consider that a "food source" not naturally occuring, but not for the purpose of attracting deer. Heck, that corn is a staple, and without it, they wouldn't be living in that area. If they were, they would not be as plentiful.

I hunt over bait where it is legal and near other food sources, water sources funnels, trails, rubs... the list goes on and on. You should use more than one strategy to be successful.

Cheers,
willis5

willis5 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2003, 06:13:50 AM »

Quote

You should use more than one strategy to be successful

I meant that as "keep doing what works for you, and keep using different strategies. I don't think that first reply sounded right.

Cheers,
willis5

kevin.303 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2003, 06:24:38 AM »

we got a new law here in manitoba that is similar. you've never been allowed to hunt over bait, but now hay bales have been addedto the list of illegal baits.you cannot be carrying a loaded firearm within 300 yards of a bale. they will only arrest you if they have reason to believe you are using it for bait so i think if a field is full of them you might be okay, but the CO could chose to be a real a**hole and arrest you anyways

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2003, 06:28:38 AM »

Generally speaking any food source which grew there and has not otherwise been manipulated is not considered bait for legal purposes under baiting laws. This even applies to migratory game hunting. So crops aren't considered baiting while placing minerals, salt or corn is. In Bama you can hunt over salt if it is ONLY salt but not if minerals are added. Kinda dumb if you ask me as salt is an attractant to deer but minerals really aren't and you almost have to add salt or some sweet feed to get deer to come to a mineral lick.

From a strictly personal perspective I find the difference between hunting a naturally occuring food source such as acorns or honeysuckle vs. a crop field vs. a bait site of corn or other grain or fruit a bit nebulous. Either way the food is attracting the deer and regardless of which source it is the situation you have to deal with is the same. I don't see it as an ethical issue but a purely legal one. If it's legal it's ethical.

GB

jhm · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2003, 05:10:41 PM »

Dave: In some states the game and fish plant corn and other food crops to assist the game on state property that is open to hunting, so if its good enough for the game and fish dept. to do than I feel its ok and acceptible if and when I do it. However it is legal to plant and to hunt over corn feeders here on private property (deer hunting) cant speek for the turkey hunting as I dont do turkeys, but they are welcome to feed on the food plots here on the place I wont bother them.

JIM

Hud · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2003, 06:56:24 PM »

If hunting by a corn field is considered baiting by some, then is hunting in the woods where there is branches, browse, or acorns, or grass clumps considered baiting. Is hunting by a waterhole baiting.

If I see a nice shootable buck and just before I shoot he stops to eat a acorn, I'm still shooting. :sniper: :yeah:

Hud

jhm · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2003, 03:11:53 AM »

Hud: Good answer, hunting since the begining of time was figuring out where the game was going to eat and then where it was going to bed down, the only thing that has changed is a few politicians got into the act.

JIM

myronman3 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2003, 02:18:44 PM »

well boys, i agree with one thing graybeard said, if it's legal, it's ethical. we have a huge problem with baiting here in wisconsin and it has really gotten out of hand. the population is split down the middle on this issue; and up until the safety of the deer herd ( and therefore the future of deer hunting ) was at stake, i figured that if folks wanted the added expense of bait, it was their business. and alot of my personal friends baited. well now comes c.w.d., and we dont KNOW if baiting helps spread it or not. the people studying it seem to think it is a contributing factor. i dont know one way or the other; but i am not willing to gamble with the sport that is dearest to my heart. i think that if that means one has a reduced chance (which i dont believe is true, if you know how to hunt) of filling a tag, suck it up. we all owe it to our children to ensure that deer hunting is around for them, too. when things get figured out and when we know if it is safe to do so, make it legal again if you so choose. but it just aint worth the risk here at the moment.
do i care if you hunt over bait (if it is legal where you hunt)? not a lick. there are those that like to look down their noses at others and look for excuses to do so. baiting falls into that catagory.
but i will say...
that in no way is a cornfield or oak tree dropping acorns the same as a bait pile. for one thing, the area which the food source covers is spread out. for rifle hunters, it doesnt matter. but for handguning and bowhunting, it surely does.
it is my experience that big bucks use bait piles well after legal hunting hours. like i said before, i have friends that have baited for years and years. none of them have killed pope and young bucks. i have never hunted over bait, i have two to my name. yes, some will be taken over bait, but i think that a trophy buck knows when you are there and when you aint, and you have a better chance at him using other tactics.
if you hunt over bait and it is legal and you are o.k. with that; that is all that matters. but dont kid yourselves into thinking it is the same as a field or other naturally occuring food source. the main thing is that you follow local laws; or even more importantly, that you hunt safely.
my humble opinion.

longwinters · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2003, 03:22:03 PM »

If a person/s plant anything for the sole purpose of bunting over it . . . it is bait plan and simple. It is not a cash crop, it was not planted for the purpose of feeding domestic livestock . . . then it becomes bait when it is hunted over. Plain and simple. I hunt over bait at times and other times I do not. But whether I throw it on the ground or hunt over something planted for that purpose it is bait.

DennisB · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2003, 06:05:02 PM »

Just to provoke some thought (and more replies, no doubt), maybe there's a market for artificial clover or corn.

IronKnees · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2003, 01:31:09 AM »

Why is it that someone else always thinks of a way for me to make my "millions" before I do???

Hud · « **Reply #15 on:** May 10, 2003, 03:57:56 AM »

As far a CWD is concerned I would certianly be against baiting if it was proven to contribute to that.

I personaly don't hunt over "placed" bait as it is illegal here in Minnesota. Nor do I put out salt block which is legal. I have hunted alongside cornfields (planted bait) which is legal, time to time. My hunting is usually in the deep woods. But if anyone else wants to hunt over salt blocks, have at it.

But I think that baiting whether, placed or planted, "substancialy contributing to CWD" is a false charge brought on by some state agencies and possibly some well meaning sportmans groups that have not really thought it through.

In Minnesota, and I would logicaly assume in other northern states, that the deer herd up in large groups anyway. It is no big deal to see 10 to 200 deer herded along side unharvisted cornfields or even back in aspen groves. Deer are deer, and they are going to "herd up" whether some folks are baiting or not. Actually it would be possible to argue that baiting by many people in differant areas would seperate the large deer herds into several small ones, thereby reducing the risk of disease tranmission.

Possibly our states could pass a law making it illeagal for the deer to congregate together in groups over 50. Sounds like something the Minnesota legislature would try! They would not actually fine the deer,
(although they could cough up a buck :-D ), but the land owner could be fined for allowing it! You know, providing habitat and all. Of course the government would not be responcible for deer congregating on state or federal land.

Hud

Zachary · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2003, 12:04:02 PM »

In Texas, you cannot hunt waterfowl over a baited field. (i.e., you cannot place corn in a 6" deep pond and hunt over it.) However, you CAN hunt in a corn field. Now, can you place corn in a corn field? No. Go figure.

I see no problem hunting deer in a corn field. It's a natural, not baited, source.

Zachary

daddywpb · « **Reply #17 on:** June 04, 2003, 03:36:48 PM »

Around here it's not legal to hunt over bait, but you can purchase permits to hunt state managed "dove" fields, on private property, with food crops planted in them. I've never been able to figure out what the difference is.

cliffs · « **Reply #18 on:** June 11, 2003, 05:52:42 PM »

I used bait for many years, trouble is it didn't work all that well for the mature deer. I quit using it 3 years ago and now see way more deer and don't have the expense. I am glad they are banning it in Wisconsin. I believe the deer will be better off in the long run.