Author Topic: little bullets = little holes (Read 1503 times)

IMshooter · « **on:** February 14, 2007, 04:20:02 AM »

Who here knows of someone who survived being shot with a small caliber bullet?

I knew three guys in the service who got shot by little bullets. Here are thier stories:

Man #1. Took five hits at point blank range from a .25 acp. Two bullets in the head, two bullets in the neck, and one bullet to the chest. He came up fighting and beat the hell out of his attacker. He survived, but the doctors had to leave two bullets in him.

Man #2. Got shot through the side with a .25 acp and ran several blocks before he realized he was hit. Survived.

Man #3. Was shot twice with a .22. The first bullet broke his arm and the second bullet broke his leg. He was able to run across a parking lot on the broken leg before collapsing. Survived.

Who else can contribute a story?

jimster · « **Reply #1 on:** February 14, 2007, 04:04:10 PM »

When I was a kid there was a guy that got shot through one cheak, with a .22 during small game season. His butt cheak.
he survived. Except for his pride.
Also worked with a guy who put a loaded .22 handgun up to his ear and pulled the trigger, he thought it was not loaded, it was. He survived. The bullet hit his jaw bone and turned to another direction. No hearing on that ear for the rest of his life. He did this when he was a teenage kid drinking and partying.

rockbilly · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2007, 04:43:37 PM »

You can't always say it was the size of the bullet that did the job.

Approximately a year ago, an off duty police officer in Jackso, Ms, on his way home from a training class in his patrol car, heard a call on the radio pertaining to a get-a-way vehicle from a robbery. He saw the car, chased it until it wrecked. The driver, exited the car through the drivers side window shooting, the officer pulled his weapon and returned fire. The robber was hit two-three times with a .40 in the upper part of the body, the officer was hit one time in the stomach with a .25 bullet fropm a distance of approximately 40 feet. The officer died on the spot, the robber survived.

I set on a jury iin Texas, a woman who had been abused many times by her common-law husband picked up a cheap .22 revolver as she was going out the back door, she exited the house as the man was in chase, she turned and shot one time hitting him in the right eye. Dead on the spot. (I wanted to set her free, but under the law, had to find her guilty of manslaughter. At 63 years old, the 12 year sentence was life.)

A friend was confronted by a bad guy with a gun, they fought for the gun, my friend was shot behind the ear, the bullet traveled upardward, and exited the top of his head. He has a steel plate to cover the area where the skull was blown away, but other than that he is doing very well. The gun was Ruger Blackhawk .357, shooting full blown .357s.

About 20 years ago, another friend and LA cop stopped to investigate a suspicous person at a closed business. My friend and his rookie partner confronted the individual. They found him to be under the infulence of some type of drug so they arrested him, put the cuff on the guy, and were attermpting to put him in the back seat of the crusier. The guy broke the cuffs, jumped on top of my friend, knocked him to the street between the crusier and curb, he leaned over and took his service weapon, a .357 and turned and started shooting at the rookie. The rookie was running for cover my friend was attempting to draw his back-up weapon as the guy turned and fired one shot at him. The shot hit the left hip bone, traveled in and up along the backbone stopping just a few mm from the spine. A shot rt stay in the hospital, several months of rehab and he was back to duty. He should be about ready to retire from the force today.

It has been proven time and time again that the larger bullets are most effective in stopping a man, but the point of impact and internal damage from a .22 or .25 can be very deadly. Maybe you should also ask who survived a big bullet. If you asked who had survived a shotgun at almost point blank raange, then I would have to raise my hand, but thats another story.

Win 73 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2007, 10:36:33 AM »

Quote from: rockbilly on February 14, 2007, 04:43:37 PM

I set on a jury iin Texas, a woman who had been abused many times by her common-law husband picked up a cheap .22 revolver as she was going out the back door, she exited the house as the man was in chase, she turned and shot one time hitting him in the right eye. Dead on the spot. (I wanted to set her free, but under the law, had to find her guilty of manslaughter. At 63 years old, the 12 year sentence was life.)

You did that woman a great injustice. If, as you say, he had previously abused her and was chasing her, she was guilty of nothing. That was purely self defense. You didn't "have" to find her guilty of anything. Even if she was guilty of something, didn't you ever hear of jury nullification? That was another miscarriage of justice in our criminal injustice system. That poor woman will probably spend the rest of her life in prison while real criminals walk free.

jhm · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2007, 10:48:54 AM »

Rock: Where does self defence come into the lives of the people where you live? Why have a Jury if it is standard policy to find them guilty of defending themselves??

leverfan · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2007, 04:40:06 PM »

Not all small calibers, but here they are:

I went to school with a guy that took a .22 LR to the head. The bullet skidded along between his scalp and skull, about 1/3 of the way around his head, before breaking the skin and exiting.

My father in law and one of his brothers were both hit in the legs by the same 12 gauge blast. My father in law lived, but his brother, who was nearer to the gun, bled to death before help arrived.

A distant relative of mine attempted suicide by placing a 12 gauge under his chin and pulling the trigger. He's hard to look at, blind in one eye, damn near blind in the other eye, but he's still alive.

A coworker of mine shot himself in the calf with a .243 while pulling it out of his truck by the muzzle. He was back to work, in a sawmill, within a couple of weeks.

My neighbor had a ND with a .308 Winchester inside his house. The bullet went through an exterior wall and hit a chain link fence, splitting the bullet into two pieces. One hit a woman working in her flower bed next door to the shooter's house. The fragment lodged in her leg, and was left in by doctors. The other fragment hit her son, who was up on a ladder working on the gutters at the time. He was hit next to the spine, but lived. Last I heard, he finished his PHD in nuclear science and is a career military man, too.

It's not the diameter of what hits you, it's where it hits, and how deep it goes.

rockbilly · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2007, 04:20:01 AM »

Win73, jhm, as I said in my post, I wanted to set her free, but under Texas law once she exited the house and had a means to flee the self protection defense went out the window. What I fail to say, after leaving the house there were numerous other people to protect her, her life was no longer in jepordy. We did manage to downgrade the charges from murder to manslaughter, she does have a change of a parole after three years.. Bottomline, it is hard to judge how anyone will vote once the options of the court have been presented to them, and they have been charged to act in a fair and just manner. I didn't like the idea of convicting the lady, but when all the facts were on the table I had no choice.

This was another one of those sad, but weird cases where an abused woman continues to go back to the man time after time. The history on this lady extended well over thirty years, she had suffered a broken nose, broken arm, and too many cuts and bruises to count. Over the years numerous law officers, social workers and judges had attempted to convince the lady to leave the man. She continued to come back time after time, it appeared to me that she almost had a death wish. It would have been nice to be able to sentence her to a mental healt facility, but that wasn't an option.

Win 73 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2007, 10:44:17 AM »

I still say you did that woman a great injustice. If he was still chasing her, it was self defence, inside or out. If the "law" left you no options, there was still jury nullification. Sounds to me like the perfect case to use it on. No way would I have voted guilty on that case. One of the reasons so many women get abused is because the pond scum who do it seldom get their just deserts.

K.K · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2007, 11:27:59 AM »

I have had three friends survive gunshot wounds. One was hit in the arm with a .45 and nearly lost his arm. Other than a lot of surgery, traction, rehab and scars, he is fine. Another was shot with a 9mm when an evicted tenant came back and shot the super and him while he was looking for a new apartment. The super died on the spot, hit in the chest and neck. Oddly enough, the wounds and rehab were almost exactly the same as the first guy. The last one was mugged at gunpoint, gave up his wallet, and was shot while walking away, for not having enough money. he was hit in the scapula with a small caliber (.22 or .25). other than emotional scarring, he made out fairly well.

The two hit with the .45 and 9mm narrowly escaped death. They were young, strong, and fought through it. The guy hit with the small-caliber walked three city blocks to his home, where his roomates called an ambulance. he walked out on his own power. I think that this is why I tend to carry larger calibers for self-defense today.

rockbilly · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2007, 03:32:26 AM »

Win 73. You can set in the “peanut gallery and state what you would have done, but until you have actually set on the jury in a criminal case, heard the evidence, had the law explained, and the options given, then you really can’t make a judgment of the jury, or their actions. The State of Texas has, perhaps, the best laws available to protect someone in a shooting (and they are about to get even better), but it also has limits on when you can shoot. The law is clear, when a person has a means of escape, and ability to flee, any self-defense plea goes out the window by them not taking advantage of the situation. Additionally, there are twelve people setting on a jury, in order to arrive at any verdict, it must be unanimous. To push for "jury nullification" requires the vote of all twelve members of the jury, one no vote, a hung jury. I admit, there are those situtations where jury nullification is an acceptable avenue for the jury to take, but it is normally in a case so clear cut the courts can not argue with the decesion, this was not the case here.

Evidently your experience as a jury is limited, and laws may differ in your state. Based on my education, and experience in law enforcement, I think the jury did her the best service possible. With age, and experience, you will clearly see that, though a workable solution, the theory of jury nullification, for the most part, is a pipe dream. To render a finding as such, one has to fully understand the law pertaining to the case, must have a judge that will accept it without dismissing the jury and declaring a mistrial, and must fully understand the many options the courts have against you if attempted.

You are entitled to your opinion, but until you have all the facts, you are just blowing hot air with the jury nullification theory.

Lone Star · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2007, 07:03:07 AM »

I side with Rock on this one. I've sat on three criminal juries and one grand jury, and anyone who watches Law and Order or Perry Mason to get their information on the judicial system needs a reality check. All well and good to posture at the screen about what you'd have done, but when it comes to the nut cuttin' it's all about you, the evidence, the law, and the other jurors. Those with no experience have nothing but opinions. That's fine of course - but don't be disrespectful of those who have been there when you have not.

.

Win 73 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2007, 12:39:23 PM »

I am sorry but based on the facts that you presented, if I were on that jury, it would just have been a hung jury. I could not in good conscience vote guilty in that case. He had a history of abusing her. She fled the house but according to you he was chasing her. Since he was beating her up, I have to assume there was a disparity of strength. Based on past history, she had good reason to be afraid of him. To me that is self defence.

To give you an idea of where this member of the "peanut gallery" is coming from. I am not now but for several years I was a police officer. I have looked across the barrel of a gun at someone else from both ends. I have had to make the decision to shoot someone or not. (I didn't) I have carried a gun for about 40 years now. Presently I sit on a governmental board that holds hearings and renders decisions that effect peoples' careers and lives. And I have been called for jury duty.

Rogue Ram · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2007, 03:01:14 PM »

My current partner was shot in the arm with a .45 Auto, loaded with Black Talon (EXCUSE me, I guess I don't want to offend anyone, Winchester SXT would be the politically correct term). Had he not had a partner that was a medic he would have died. This was after the bullet went thru the door or door jamb..... and probably was a massive chunk of lead by the time it hit him. I have another coworker that took buckshot to the leg... the wound was not impressive.

I have seen people firsthand shot with 12 gauge, 30-06, (

) and .44 mag and know 2 others shot with .22 lr and one 9mm. The shotgun, 06, and .44 were at very close range and the wounds were beyond my capability to print here: horrific would be about right. The small caliber wounds were head shots but not didn't penetrate properly and the wound channels were nothing to get excited about. I do know of a person recently killed when his drunk buddy shot him at close range with those CCI .22 birdshot rounds.......go figure that one out.

As always, accurate shooting with an appropriate caliber is better than spray and pray with anything.

RR

Gdbyrd · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2007, 06:29:48 PM »

Quote from: K.K on February 20, 2007, 11:27:59 AM

One was hit in the arm with a .45 and nearly lost his arm. Another was shot with a 9mm when an evicted tenant came back and shot the super and him while he was looking for a new apartment. The super died on the spot, hit in the chest and neck. Oddly enough, the wounds and rehab were almost exactly the same as the first guy. The last one was mugged at gunpoint, he was hit in the scapula with a small caliber (.22 or .25). other than emotional scarring, he made out fairly well.

Extremeties house a lot of places to bleed..it takes a large vessel to bring blood from your heart to the tips of your fingers. Scapula's are large, have many angles, and if you're bones are full of calcium then it's very likely that stuff will deflect rather than go deep. I don't care if it's a .22 or a .460....shot placement is what does it. A little bullet may=a little hole..but depending where it's at is what's vital..spleen, liver, heart, or lung shots can kill pretty quickly unless medical treatment is given ASAP. That's a very large area..and given that a .22 may not have the umph of a "big gun," that little bullet can bounce off a rib into your pleural cavity and cause a world of problems...hell, even a shot to the gut if not given correct treatment can result in death..sepsis is very likely..then that brings you to a huge array of different kinds of shock.

There are soo many factors that can go into this it's not even funny. Bullet type, size, weight, velocity, and even what it's striking make a BIG impact.

corbanzo · « **Reply #14 on:** February 26, 2007, 08:48:02 AM »

A bullet is a bullet, I dont care how fast or big it is. If it hits in the right place, it is going to do some damage. Years ago my old man was shot in the chest on accident with a .22lr. The bullet past straight through not hitting the rib cage or any organs, but then stuck him in the spine. The doctors said he would never walk again, though he did recover, only having one leg being very small and walking with a severe limp.

Also years ago when I was in school, a school mate of mine shot him self in the foot with a 12 gauge upon getting out of a truck, from about 4 inches away. he also walks with a limp, but that is only from his foot, not any other important parts of his body.

The hole may be little, but the projectlile can still hit some rather important stuff. Bigger bullet with more energy will cause more wound channel damage, but the end result can still be the same with both.

S.S. · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2007, 06:57:18 AM »

Would have had a hung Jury from me too in that case of the abused woman.
I understand Rockbilly's predicament though.

Heavy C · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2007, 04:14:51 PM »

Here's one for you guys:

A close personal friend of mine was found dead after his wife reported him missing. His death was ruled a suicide. This was difficult to accept, but okay. Later on I had an opportunity to read the report from his autopsy. The report indicated he had 4 shots to the heart area with a 22 pistol. The first two shots hit the outer edges of his heart, but probably would have survived with immediate medical care (JMO). The third shot was a direct hit to the center of the heart and is what killed him. The fourth shot missed his heart and lodged in his back. The were powder burns on his shirt. I don't recall reading of any gun shot residue on his hands.

Now, I'll grant you he was a strong man and the pistol was a semi-auto. However, it seems inconceivable to me that someone can hold a pistol directly to one's chest, pull the trigger 4 times while taking slugs to your heart.

How's that for a head scratcher?

rockbilly · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2007, 05:49:24 AM »

This brings to mind an incident that took place in east Texas several years ago.

As you know, Bass fishing in Texas is big money, some of the tournaments pay prizes up $100,000. or more. This was the case with a group of radio station tournaments. They hosted tournaments at several lakes around Texas, and several sister stations had tournamnets in Ms, La and AR. An individual from Sweetwater, Tx had won at Hubbard Creek (Breckenridge, Tx), won another one at Sam Rayburn, and another one at Lake-of-the-Pines, (Longview). (The odds of accomplishing this are so high that most would consider it impossible. Think about it, three week-ends in a row, you catch the largest fish at three diffrent lakes. These tournaments usually had thousands of entrants) Investigators from TP&W found out there was a group flying fish in from Florida, weighing them in at tournaments and taking all the money. As the investigation progressed, I understand several law enforcement agencys got involved. The guy that was actually doing the fishing and weighing the fish finall was summonded to appear before a grand jury in east Texas. The day before he was schedule to appear he was found dead in a boat where he commited suicide.

The news reported he had been shot three times in the back with a 12 gauge shotgun. Having survived a shotgun attack several years ago, I speak from experience when I say, there is no way he could have shot himself THREE times. Did the LEOs goof up here, or was it a cover up to prevent someone from going to jail?

Heavy C · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2007, 05:58:46 AM »

One more note to the story I shared.

It is widely speculated that my friend was murdered. He was a Justice of the Peace and was believed to have known about some drug traffic in the area.

There was hardly any investigation conducted when his body was found and approximately one year after his death the county sheriff and one of his deputies were busted with a horse trailer full of dope.

This further convinced me there was a cover up. Of course, if this is true the consequences would be far reaching. Local law enforcement involved in the "investigation" right on up to the medical examiner.

Mikey · « **Reply #19 on:** March 01, 2007, 10:03:34 AM »

Ramos1212: There was this fella in Illinois a long number of eyars ago who was bent on suicide. First he tried to hang himself with a coat hanger hung over a high door latch - didn't work, fell down, conked his head and got a cut, came in for stitches. Next he tried a 38 snubnose to the right temple - didn't work - bullet travelled under the skin beneath the eyebrows, around the skull and out the left temple. Sure thought he was dead that time but, no. Next he tries a Hammerli target pistol in 22 short - works the sear to have it go full auto, puts the muzzle to his chest and 5 shots later it didn't work. Next he tried the razor across the wrist - didn't work. Finally he tried the old shotgun under the chin - that worked.

So, it is possible it could have been a suicidal effort................................

Rockbilly - what, only 3 times in the back with a shotgun??? Why, Salvadore Allende, the late socialist president of Chile accidently shot himself 27 times in the back with an AK-47 while an air strike was being conducted against his palace. Now that's tough (dang socialists never want to give it up). Mikey.